LayPreachingNowAllowed?

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We have been told by a highly-placed diocesan official who came to our parish that there is a new document issued in 2005 by the Vatican that allows lay preaching and that the earlier documents no longer apply. She held the document up but didn’t tell us its name or give us a copy. We have also been told that “all the Vatican rules have been changed.” Does anyone know of such a document?
 
G_S said:
We have been told by a highly-placed diocesan official who came to our parish that there is a new document issued in 2005 by the Vatican that allows lay preaching and that the earlier documents no longer apply. She held the document up but didn’t tell us its name or give us a copy. We have also been told that “all the Vatican rules have been changed.” Does anyone know of such a document?
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I wonder why the Vatican news didn’t mention anything about it? Get a copy and post the name and date. If she won’t give it to you. ask the Bishop to investigate.
 
G_S said:
We have been told by a highly-placed diocesan official who came to our parish that there is a new document issued in 2005 by the Vatican that allows lay preaching and that the earlier documents no longer apply. She held the document up but didn’t tell us its name or give us a copy. We have also been told that “all the Vatican rules have been changed.” Does anyone know of such a document?
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I have never heard of this. I’ve been in this forum almost from its inception, and I am sure that if something like that had come out, it would have been a topic of discussion here. The words I’ve bolded above, plus the fact that this “highly placed diocesan official” couldn’t or wouldn’t document “her” claim, plus the implications of the claim itself–all these are sending up all sorts of red flags in my mind.
 
DaveBj said:
I have never heard of this. I’ve been in this forum almost from its inception, and I am sure that if something like that had come out, it would have been a topic of discussion here. The words I’ve bolded above, plus the fact that this “highly placed diocesan official” couldn’t or wouldn’t document “her” claim, plus the implications of the claim itself–all these are sending up all sorts of red flags in my mind.
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I addition Redemptionis Sacramentum was issued in 2004. Paragraph 66 of this document makes it very clear that lay preaching of the Homily is forbidden under any circumstances, and is a violation of Canon Law #767.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
I addition Redemptionis Sacramentum was issued in 2004. Paragraph 66 of this document makes it very clear that lay preaching of the Homily is forbidden under any circumstances, and is a violation of Canon Law #767.
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I also believe that Cardinal Arinze has made several comments reaffirming what RS has to say on the subject. Whoever is spreading this kind of false news needs to cease and desist. I don’t mean the OP; just the diocesan official.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
I wonder why the Vatican news didn’t mention anything about it? Get a copy and post the name and date. If she won’t give it to you. ask the Bishop to investigate.
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I’m pretty sure the bishop sent her.
 
G_S said:
I’m pretty sure the bishop sent her.
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G&S, did this diocesan official specify that this preaching was to be done outside of the context of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? That is a very important distinction. Brother Rich, correct me if I’m wrong, but, is it possible for a lay person to do a Parish Mission?

Now, is this diocesan official in charge of Divine Worship? I don’t mean to get too specific, but, I ask these questions because, if it in the context of liturgy, lay people cannot preach, as indicated in RS and as consistently affirmed by Cardinal Arinze.
 
G_S said:
She specifically was speaking of the homily at Mass.
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I am afraid that she is gravely misinformed. Lay preaching during the Mass (the homily) remains a reprobated practice and has been condemned by RS and by Canon Law. You should report this to the bishop as soon as possible.

Given Pope Benedict’s stance on the liturgy, I highly doubt that Rome will issue a ruling that is contrary to RS (which, by the way, as Cardinal Ratzinger, Benedict had a heavy hand in composing) and Canon Law (which, he, too, helped to shape). Rome is not going to go against itself on this one.
 
If a person wishes to become a lay evangelist, the Church approves of this. The restriction on homiletics at Mass still applies. No problem exists if you wish to do, let us say, TV evangelism. In Britain just bring your soapbox to Hyde Park Speakers Corner.
I’m personally puzzled by the reasoning behind the restriction on preaching at Mass. Presumably it was originally in place because only the clergy were able to read and write and this assured that the speaker had at least some knowledge of scripture and theology. However in a day and age when most of the adult population has as much or more education than even the priesthood in early parts of Church history it seems rather narrow minded.

Matthew
 
G_S said:
We have been told by a highly-placed diocesan official who came to our parish that there is a new document issued in 2005 by the Vatican that allows lay preaching and that the earlier documents no longer apply. She held the document up but didn’t tell us its name or give us a copy. We have also been told that “all the Vatican rules have been changed.” Does anyone know of such a document?
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No.

I also think that if such a document had been issued, we would have heard about it through Catholic news services. It’s interesting that she didn’t mention the name of the document, or leave you a copy to study for yourselves. Perhaps you should call her and politely ask for the name of the document, so that you can download it from the Vatican’s web site. 😃
 
drafdog said:
If a person wishes to become a lay evangelist, the Church approves of this. The restriction on homiletics at Mass still applies. No problem exists if you wish to do, let us say, TV evangelism. In Britain just bring your soapbox to Hyde Park Speakers Corner.
I’m personally puzzled by the reasoning behind the restriction on preaching at Mass. Presumably it was originally in place because only the clergy were able to read and write and this assured that the speaker had at least some knowledge of scripture and theology. However in a day and age when most of the adult population has as much or more education than even the priesthood in early parts of Church history it seems rather narrow minded.
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In very ancient times, even priests were not authorized to preach (only bishops), nor were they usually qualified to do so. It’s not just about education however. The person giving the Homily is supposed to be speaking as a representative of the Church. Therefore in principle we should not be hearing the personal opinions or philosophy of the homilist, but the voice of the Church.

I can study theology, hold opinions, and express or argue them – I just cannot properly represent the teaching office of the Church, unless appointed to that office. It is analgous to the difference between my expressing positions on foreign policy matters, and an ambassador doing so. One represents a personal view, the other acts as a representative.
 
John_Lilburne said:
No, I don’t know of such a 2005 Vatican document.

Based on 2005, perhaps the person had in mind something issued by the Swiss Bishops Conference. Articles on this are at whispersintheloggia.blogspot.com/2005/11/good-bad-and-ugly-of-homiletics.html and at adoremus.org/0305NewsViews.html#anchor14225437 .
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Just because the Swiss bishops did or said something doesn’t make that necessarily apply to the Universal Church. The thrust of this whole thing is that lay preaching during the Mass is reprobated by Rome. This reprobation has been consistently reaffirmed.
 
Lay people CANNOT preach the Gospel or give the homily at a Mass. They can at a non-Mass (Communion service, SCAP, Wake, Funeral Vigil, non-Mass wedding or funeral, etc…) but not at a Mass.

And no, you can’t just call it something else, like a “faith talk” and say “well, it’s not a homily.” And you also can’t have the celebrant introduce the lay person and then the lay person speaks.

The Vatican did not change the rules-well, I mean they did change the rules to say lay people can’t preach or give the homily at a Mass. But they didn’t change them the way she’s saying.

IMHO, she is someone who wants to be a priest and if you challenge her, you’ll likely hear about some comparison to the Pharisies (sp?) and a speech about loving Jesus, meaningul worship, and why aren’t we worried about helping the poor.

If the Bishop did indeed send her, he may very well support her. Good luck.
 
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