Lazy labelling of Catholics .......... conservative/liberal/ traditional/progressive

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Rob2

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"These labels of ‘conservative’ and ‘liberal’ are really unhelpful in the life of the church " , said Cardinal Mahony back in 2010 .


How true !

Not only unhelpful , but lazy and erroneous and divisive .

It’s very easy for a lazy person simply to stick a label on a fellow Catholic when “conversing” with him/her . That’s sorted him . Now he’s pigeonholed . No more dialogue needed. He is now in his place , beyond the pale .Anathema !.

How lazy !

It’s too much trouble to get into the mind and heart of the one trying to express an opinion . After all that would be a way to dialogue with him , and that takes effort , and in any case we know his sort , let’s just label him . Argument won !

Traditional Catholic ?

For a Catholic not to be traditional would be theological nonsense . It is of the very essence of Catholicism to be traditional . All that I am and have as a Catholic has come to me by way of tradition . It can’t be otherwise .

The Fathers of the Second Council of the Vatican in Dei Verbum taught , “Sacred tradition and Sacred Scripture form one sacred deposit of the word of God, committed to the Church. Holding fast to this deposit the entire holy people united with their shepherds remain always steadfast in the teaching of the Apostles, in the common life, in the breaking of the bread and in prayers , so that holding to, practicing and professing the heritage of the faith, it becomes on the part of the bishops and faithful a single common effort.”

It speaks of the ENTIRE people of God holding fast to this Tradition . And the entire people of God are called upon to hold fast to the ENTIRE deposit of faith .

So please take note “traditional” and “non-traditional” Catholics , it’s for ALL Catholics to take to heart ALL the deposit of faith . No more pick and mix . And both groups do it , but they oughtn’t . And we oughtn’t put up with the term “Traditional Catholic” unless it embraces all Catholics who by their nature can’t be but traditional .

Before becoming acquainted with American Catholicism , mainly through EWTN and predominantly American Catholic forums , the term “Liberal Catholics” was not part of my vocabulary .

I have no intention of adopting the term to use as part of my thinking . It is a label which belongs to politics , and lazy Catholics should not be using it as a term to attack other Catholics . Leave it with the politicians where it belongs . Because of the negative connotations associated with the adjective “Liberal” , it should ditched as part of our Catholic conversations on issues related to Catholicism .

( Continued in next post )
 
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Progressive/Conservative .

I was fortunate to have lived through the Second Vatican Council . We would follow it with curiosity , excitement and hope .

The more vocal bishops at the Council became familiar names , and we soon came to realise that there was a real debate going on between the bishops at the Council . Some bishops did not want any change within the Church . Other bishops wanted to see reform in the way Pope John XXIII , Good Pope John , saw it . He spoke of aggiornamento . He said , " The Council’s principal task will be concerned with the condition and modernization (in Italian: aggiornamento) of the Church after 20 centuries of life. "

The bishops came to be looked upon as “Conservatives” and “Progressives” . And there was no wrong seen in speaking of them in this way . The conservative bishops were basically saying there is no need for change , things were just fine as they were . On the other hand , the progressive bishops said that things were not satisfactory , and that there was a need for reform . In his opening speech at the Council Good Pope John made an important point when he said , " The substance of the ancient doctrine of the deposit of faith is one thing, and the way in which it is presented is another. And it is the latter that must be taken into great consideration with patience if necessary, everything being measured in the forms and proportions of a Magisterium which is predominantly pastoral in character. "

So the debates went on for four years , and the Council Fathers presented us with their documents which became part of the Church’s Tradition .

So how would I label myself ? Not “liberal” because of the way the word is abused .

Not “traditional” unless it is referring to all Catholics whose essence as Catholics is to be traditional .

I would call myself a conservative Catholic , wanting to conserve all that is good and true in the Church .

I would call myself a progressive Catholic , wanting to bring in reform where wrong thinking and practices need to be cast aside because they are hindering the good and true in the Church .

So I am a conservative , progressive Catholic or a progressive , conservative Catholic . Take your pick . It doesn’t matter either way .

Conserve “the deposit of faith” .

Reform when and where “the deposit of faith” needs to be presented in a way meaningful to the people of our time .
 
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Rob2 said:
Because of the negative connotations associated with the adjective “Liberal” , it should ditched as part of our Catholic conversations on issues related to Catholicism .
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What label do you propose we use instead, when we need to refer to that strand of Catholicism represented by, for example, the National Catholic Reporter as opposed to the National Catholic Register or, in Britain, by The Tablet as opposed to the Catholic Herald?
 
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We’ve had this thread…
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Liberal Catholicism will fade away - Fr. Dwight Longnecker Moral Theology
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These terms reveal an important truth about the state of the Latin Rite today. The Rite is not united in liturgy, doctrine or discipline. For the most part, this division is not the fault of the Magisterium. The division was caused by cultural changes. We now have ‘Catholics’ who dissent from doctrines and disregard discipline - these people are erroneously called ‘liberal.’ Faithful Catholics are called conservatives. And Catholics who prefer the EF are called ‘traditional.’

Personally, I think the terms should be changed to Catholic and heretic.
 
Indeed. The labels reflect the reality that Catholics have self-sorted into distinct movements that are growing further apart, with the middle ground between them eroding. Curiously, this has happened in a similar fashion that Judaism has self-sorted into the Orthodox, Conservative and Reform movements. My guess is that, eventually, this division will become formalized and institutionalized in some way as reconciliation becomes less and less possible.

Brushing the internal division aside as “lazy labeling” serves no purpose than to deny reality.

This realignment is by no means unique to the Catholic Church, but is seen across the whole of Christianity in the West. Nor is it a very recent phenomenon, but has been going on for at least a century.
 
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BartholomewB said:
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Rob2:
Because of the negative connotations associated with the adjective “Liberal” , it should ditched as part of our Catholic conversations on issues related to Catholicism .
Click to expand...
What label do you propose we use instead, when we need to refer to that strand of Catholicism represented by, for example, the National Catholic Reporter as opposed to the National Catholic Register or, in Britain, by The Tablet as opposed to the Catholic Herald?
Click to expand...
I read the Tablet each week .

I read some of the Catholic Herald online each week .

What label do I propose for them ?

That’s simple . They are CATHOLIC .
 
AndrewAxland said:
Brushing the internal division aside as “lazy labeling” serves no purpose than to deny reality.
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No the lazy labelling serves no good purpose .

Those who use the labels should put some effort into explaining what is behind their labels , putting into words what concerns them , rather than just sticking a label on someone .
 
BartholomewB said:
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Rob2:
Because of the negative connotations associated with the adjective “Liberal” , it should ditched as part of our Catholic conversations on issues related to Catholicism .
Click to expand...
What label do you propose we use instead, when we need to refer to that strand of Catholicism represented by, for example, the National Catholic Reporter as opposed to the National Catholic Register or, in Britain, by The Tablet as opposed to the Catholic Herald?
Click to expand...
National Catholic Reporter = heretical and/or dissenting
National Catholic Register = orthodox and faithful

😉
 
Rob2 said:
Those who use the labels should put some effort into explaining what is behind their labels , putting into words what concerns them , rather than just sticking a label on someone .
Click to expand...
The labels “Traditionalist”, “Conservative” and “Progressive” are ones that the people in question adopt for themselves, on their own. It’s a natural part of the self-sorting process that has been going on in the Church for quite some time. And PLENTY of effort has been made to explain what those labels mean. That’s why they are so useful.
 
phil19034 said:
National Catholic Reporter = heretical and/or dissenting
National Catholic Register = orthodox and faithful
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I foresee a difficuty. The people on the other side would use the same terms, but with the definitions switched.
 
AndrewAxland said:
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Rob2:
Those who use the labels should put some effort into explaining what is behind their labels , putting into words what concerns them , rather than just sticking a label on someone .
Click to expand...
The labels “Traditionalist”, “Conservative” and “Progressive” are ones that the people in question adopt for themselves, on their own. It’s a natural part of the self-sorting process that has been going on in the Church for quite some time. And PLENTY of effort has been made to explain what those labels mean. That’s why they are so useful.
Click to expand...
I have said that I am prepared to see myself as a conservative , progressive Catholic .

And all Catholics are traditional by their very nature of being Catholic .
 
Rob2 said:
I have said that I am prepared to see myself as a conservative , progressive Catholic .

And all Catholics are traditional by their very nature of being Catholic .
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You’re free to do so, but don’t be surprised if anyone questions your understanding of those words, as you are using them in a sense contrary to how most people understand them.
 
I bet he was against labels most of the labels I have seen attached to him seems to describe the actions that he took. As for me I will keep using labels.
 
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