I always wonder what commentators mean when they say a religious community is traditional or progressive, conservative or liberal. Why do we bring these foreign terms into religious life and the Church?
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Lazy labelling of Catholics .......... conservative/liberal/ traditional/progressive
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margaret42
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People maybe take those words for granted, since they know from politics what the words mean. Labels really don’t help, but any one knows the signs of a conservative or liberal. In some ways the church needs to find ways to add more people, without changing doctrine. And doctrine’s never changed, no matter who’s been pope.
But change could be used in the way people come back. And some changes since Vatican 2 have helped-mass in your own language; less emphasis on punishment for sins, and rather the true nature of God, etc.
But change could be used in the way people come back. And some changes since Vatican 2 have helped-mass in your own language; less emphasis on punishment for sins, and rather the true nature of God, etc.
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yankeesouth
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Labels are helpful in identifying error. If liberal poilticians who identify as Catholic but support a political party with an ideology that lays waste to the life teachings of Jesus (the non negotiables of the Catholic Faith) then a distinction has to be made.
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Axsenex
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Deaf Catholic
If you have a problem with my label then so be it :love_you_gesture:t2:
If you have a problem with my label then so be it :love_you_gesture:t2:
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robertlnorman
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Catholic orthodoxy should be confounding to both conservatives and liberals.
Anti-death penalty
Anti-abortion
Anti-contraception
Pro-immigration
Anti-divorce
Anti-gay marriage
No female clergy
Anti-death penalty
Anti-abortion
Anti-contraception
Pro-immigration
Anti-divorce
Anti-gay marriage
No female clergy
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philipl
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So? I havent checked for a imprimatur in years.
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philipl
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What Cardinal Mahony wants is to control the language. He and people like him know to control the culture and the discussion you need to control what language is allowed.
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Reuben_J
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I am guilty of sorting myself but it is more of tryjng to explain what stage I am or what I do or my spirituality as a Catholic.
As a general rule I do not go into labels. We are all Catholics. Period. Sometimes it is necessary though to use the adjectives as purely for description.
As a general rule I do not go into labels. We are all Catholics. Period. Sometimes it is necessary though to use the adjectives as purely for description.
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Erikaspirit16
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I’ve brought this up in this forum several times. To my mind it’s downright stupid (you can quote me) to label someone an “X Catholic” or a “Y Catholic.”
There is a large range of issues (liturgy, prayer, morality, social teaching, obedience, Biblical interpretation, etc. etc.) and most, if not all, people would be on the “X” side of one issue but the “Y” side of another. So are they “X” or “Y”? Do you say that if they are “X” on 10 issues, but “Y” on one issue, that one issue trumps (intended pun…) all others? Or do you count the issues and majority wins? If you decide that one issue is more important than another, who gave you the authority to decide that? And, frankly, what good does it do to label someone? All you are really trying to do is belittle them or dismiss them: “Suzie is an “X Catholic,” so her opinion is worthless.”
Go back to the Gospels: How many times do you read about the Apostles arguing among themselves about what Jesus means? A lot. Does Jesus take a vote and expel the holders of the minority opinion? Of course not. Sometimes he explains a point a little more. But certainly he never labelled any of the Apostles. And after Jesus ascends to Heaven, are the Apostles still arguing? They sure are–and about major issues, too. But I’ve never read anything about them calling each other names or labelling their opponents. Shouldn’t we follow their example?
There is a large range of issues (liturgy, prayer, morality, social teaching, obedience, Biblical interpretation, etc. etc.) and most, if not all, people would be on the “X” side of one issue but the “Y” side of another. So are they “X” or “Y”? Do you say that if they are “X” on 10 issues, but “Y” on one issue, that one issue trumps (intended pun…) all others? Or do you count the issues and majority wins? If you decide that one issue is more important than another, who gave you the authority to decide that? And, frankly, what good does it do to label someone? All you are really trying to do is belittle them or dismiss them: “Suzie is an “X Catholic,” so her opinion is worthless.”
Go back to the Gospels: How many times do you read about the Apostles arguing among themselves about what Jesus means? A lot. Does Jesus take a vote and expel the holders of the minority opinion? Of course not. Sometimes he explains a point a little more. But certainly he never labelled any of the Apostles. And after Jesus ascends to Heaven, are the Apostles still arguing? They sure are–and about major issues, too. But I’ve never read anything about them calling each other names or labelling their opponents. Shouldn’t we follow their example?
It would please me to answer any who do question my understanding . That could be an opening to genuine dialogue , a dialogue which is so often made impossible by the abuse of these words .Rob2:
You’re free to do so, but don’t be surprised if anyone questions your understanding of those words, as you are using them in a sense contrary to how most people understand them.
That is the unfortunate thing which is happening .
Some are using political language to express views about the Faith . Not a wise thing to do .
And some are taking the language of faith and , seeing it through their political spectacles , interpret it through the language of politics . Again not a wise thing to do .
How true .
And there’s the rub .
Looking at your list of Catholic orthodoxy too many will pick and choose from it according to party political opinions .
Many mould their Catholicism according to their political party , rather than try to mould the policies of their political party according to their Catholic faith .
A book which needs to be read in the context of the Spanish Glorious Revolution of 1868 rather than in the context of present day politics .
Thanks for the eloquent way you have expressed yourself .
Agreed , it is downright stupid .
It’s the current , indolent vogue to use sound bites and stereotypes to categorize people rather than to encounter them and value them for the unique individuals they are . It leads to a dearth of creativity and imagination and thinking , and promotes a lack of dialogue . One can simply put people in labelled boxes thus avoiding any communication with them , and once one ceases to care about communication one “dies” , for no man is an island especially in Catholic thinking .
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tad
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I don’t hear our priests or deacons using this kind of language from the pulpit. I mostly hear these labels used by lay people on the internet.
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