LCMS/WELS/ELDoNA/ELS/NALC/LWF/ILC/LCMC

[SyroMalankara]

What are the differences and similarities? Is it banned for any or all to belong to LWF and ILC and LCMC all at once? If a body belongs to any or all of these, will they be shunned by the others (or considered less than confessional)? Some of the smaller bodies, why do they remain separate even while sharing common doctrinal and theological positions?

 

[Starwarsfan2]

LWF and ILC are associations / federations , all of the below are allowed to be in both .

LCMS , WELS, ELS, NALC, LCMC and ELDoNA are Confessional denominations of the Lutheran church , however

WELS and ELS are in alter and pulpit fellowship but disagree with LCMS on the pope , church disipline and on the ministry

NALC disagrees with LCMS , WELS , ELS over the church governance , ministry, number of confessions , and on how closed the Mass / Eucharist should be .

ELDoNA disagrees with WELS and ELS over differences on Justification, and the ministry

LCMC dosent disagree with ELDONA or NALC except on church government , but does disagree with LCMS on the ministry and on the charismatics .

Hope that helps

 

[steido01]

What are the differences and similarities? Is it banned for any or all to belong to LWF and ILC and LCMC all at once? If a body belongs to any or all of these, will they be shunned by the others (or considered less than confessional)? Some of the smaller bodies, why do they remain separate even while sharing common doctrinal and theological positions?

Lots of information to unload. Here goes, starting from the top.

International Organizations:

LWF
The Lutheran World Federation is the largest organization of Lutheran bodies in the world.* All members of that group must share full pulpit and altar fellowship with the others. Full conformity to the Confessions is not necessary for membership, merely a ‘quatenus’ subscription to the Augsburg Confession. Naturally, this makes more Confessional and conservative synods uneasy - if a member body were to begin teaching doctrine, it would not be possible to temporarily suspend fellowship and communion until the error was corrected, as is common among Confessional synods. The LWF is very ecumenically-minded. This has been good, particularly in furthering the Lutheran-Catholic dialogues. It’s also been confusing, as most member bodies also share simultaneous fellowship with Reformed and Utrech communions. Women and practicing homosexuals may be ordained. Most member bodies are “high church” and practice Apostolic Succession, but are so far from orthodox doctrine that their ordinations would likely be invalid, if anyone cared. This is the body that the Churches of Sweden and Finland belong to, among others (Full List).

ILC
The International Lutheran Council is made up of Confessional Lutheran synods, all of which subscribe unconditionally to the Lutheran Confessions in a ‘quia’ sense. The ILC is not a church body nor does it carry out churchly functions. It does not intend to prescribe any course of action for its members, but rather seeks to assist and strengthen them in their confessional witness and mission. As such, intercommunion is not a requirement to membership, though many member churches do share fellowship. In short, it is an ecumenical organization, not an umbrella church. Women and practicing homosexuals cannot be ordained. Presbyter ordination is typical, but some practice Apostolic Succession - the mode itself is adiaphora so long as the man is rightfully called and receives ordination through the laying on of hands by those already ordained. The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod is a member, as well as the Lutheran Church-Canada and many churches in developing countries (Full List). It currently represents about 4 million active members.*

*At the moment. Two large bodies, the Mekane Yesus Church in Ethiopia (5.6 million active members) and the Malagasy Church in Madagascar (4.1 million active members) are in the process of leaving the LWF for the more Confessional waters of the ILC. The LWF’s numbers are also greatly inflated by the Nordic and other once-state European churches, which claim nearly 90% of the population to be members.

At one time, 11 church bodies belonged to both. Though membership in the LWF is increasingly becoming an impediment to being in the ILC.

CELC
The Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference is made up of Confessional Lutheran synods. Member bodies may not be in fellowship with non-Confessional Lutherans, as judged by the Conference. It’s small, but boasts member churches on several continents. (Full List)

 

[steido01]

Individual Lutheran Synods:

LCMS
The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod is a member of the ILC. It is the second-largest Lutheran church in America. It practices “close[d]” communion; members of any LCMS congregation may receive at any LCMS congregation, non-LCMS may receive if they profess the Real Presence and have been first examined by the pastor (though some would prefer it moved to entirely closed communion). It is unwaveringly catholic, liturgical, traditional, conservative, and Confessional in its doctrine. It ranges from modern to high church in its implementation of the Divine Service, with about the same variety as American Catholics (Minus the liturgical dance stuff. That ish is weird). Most pastors wear the white alb and stoles appropriate to the liturgical season. Some also wear a chasuble, when appropriate. A very small minority are more casual and wear a suit. The LCMS is huge on Christian education. It operates more parochial schools and colleges than any religious body in the US, except the Catholic Church.

WELS/ELS
Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod and the Evangelical Lutheran Synod share total and complete pulpit/altar fellowship. Together, they form the third-largest Lutheran body(ies) in America. They practice totally “closed” communion; members are generally not permitted to receive except at their home parish. They suspended fellowship with the LCMS in the 1950-60’s over the LCMS overtures toward a body that would eventually help form the ELCA. The LCMS wisely stopped, but it was too late. Since then, divisions regarding the office of Public Ministry and corporate prayer/worship have become the main dividing factors. Worship style is generally more “low church” than the LCMS. Many WELS/ELS pastors wear the black Geneva gowns instead of the white alb and chasuble, though this is far from widespread. A small minority of pastors simply wear a suit. The WELS, ELS and LCMS still meet periodically to work through various theological issues. Reunion is a real possibility.

ELDoNA
The Evangelical Lutheran Diocese of North America is a collection of 18 churches that disagreed with the LCMS on Objective Justification. Yeah, it was that petty. They’re small and loud and rather insignificant. I give them one generation before they all jump into Eastern Orthodoxy or return home to the LCMS.

NALC
The North American Lutheran Church isn’t so much a church body, as it is a semi-Confessional reform movement that operates inside and outside of the ELCA. Some NALC congregations are also LCMC members. It numbers about 140,000 souls, and ordains women. It’s essentially the less-left-leaning ELCA folks who drew the line (a little late) at homosexual “marriages.” The NALC has bishops.

LCMC
The Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ is, like the NALC, a reform movement inside and outside of the ELCA. Some LCMC congregations are also NALC members. The LCMC does not have bishops and is rather anti-clerical. Another group of ELCA folks who drew the line at homosexual “marriage,” and forgot that churches need pastors.

 

[Starwarsfan2]

Individual Lutheran Synods:

LCMS
The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod is a member of the ILC. It is the second-largest Lutheran church in America. It practices “close[d]” communion; members of any LCMS congregation may receive at any LCMS congregation, non-LCMS may receive if they profess the Real Presence and have been first examined by the pastor (though some would prefer it moved to entirely closed communion). It is unwaveringly catholic, liturgical, traditional, conservative, and Confessional in its doctrine. It ranges from modern to high church in its implementation of the Divine Service, with about the same variety as American Catholics (Minus the liturgical dance stuff. That ish is weird). Most pastors wear the white alb and stoles appropriate to the liturgical season. Some also wear a chasuble, when appropriate. A very small minority are more casual and wear a suit. The LCMS is huge on Christian education. It operates more parochial schools and colleges than any religious body in the US, except the Catholic Church.

WELS/ELS
Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod and the Evangelical Lutheran Synod share total and complete pulpit/altar fellowship. Together, they form the third-largest Lutheran body(ies) in America. They practice totally “closed” communion; members are generally not permitted to receive except at their home parish. They suspended fellowship with the LCMS in the 1950-60’s over the LCMS overtures toward a body that would eventually help form the ELCA. The LCMS wisely stopped, but it was too late. Since then, divisions regarding the office of Public Ministry and corporate prayer/worship have become the main dividing factors. Worship style is generally more “low church” than the LCMS. Many WELS/ELS pastors wear the black Geneva gowns instead of the white alb and chasuble, though this is far from widespread. A small minority of pastors simply wear a suit. The WELS, ELS and LCMS still meet periodically to work through various theological issues. Reunion is a real possibility.

ELDoNA
The Evangelical Lutheran Diocese of North America is a collection of 18 churches that disagreed with the LCMS on Objective Justification. Yeah, it was that petty. They’re small and loud and rather insignificant. I give them one generation before they all jump into Eastern Orthodoxy or return home to the LCMS.

NALC
The North American Lutheran Church isn’t so much a church body, as it is a semi-Confessional reform movement that operates inside and outside of the ELCA. Some NALC congregations are also LCMC members. It numbers about 140,000 souls, and ordains women. It’s essentially the less-left-leaning ELCA folks who drew the line (a little late) at homosexual “marriages.” The NALC has bishops.

LCMC
The Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ is, like the NALC, a reform movement inside and outside of the ELCA. Some LCMC congregations are also NALC members. The LCMC does not have bishops and is rather anti-clerical. Another group of ELCA folks who drew the line at homosexual “marriage,” and forgot that churches need pastors.

The last two are hardly " left leaning "

 

[steido01]

The last two are hardly " left leaning "

Perhaps not politically, no. I could’ve chosen more accurate wording there. Thank you.

However, both do ordain women. That requires the use of historical-critical misrepresentations of Scripture, which is commonly associated with left-leaning thought. They aren’t as far left as the ELCA, no, but they aren’t exactly Confessional either. I’ll stand by my assertion that they are less-left-leaning than the ELCA. That said, pockets of Confessional Lutherans -both congregations and individuals- can be found in all of the bodies listed above.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Thanks for the detailed explanations. When a body like the Evangelical Lutheran Church of India belongs to both groups, does that mean - for example the LWF-Catholic dialogue represents them on praxis and doctrine or not necessarily? And what happens to ILC membership should the LWF institute require changes in praxis to its member churches?

Do all these bodies/conferences see the other as (authentically,sufficiently) Lutheran?

 

[steido01]

Thanks for the detailed explanations. When a body like the Evangelical Lutheran Church of India belongs to both groups, does that mean - for example the LWF-Catholic dialogue represents them on praxis and doctrine or not necessarily?

Generally, yes. And no. As much as the LWF tries to be the singular voice of Lutheranism, it is really just a mouthpiece for the liberal bodies. More Confessional bodies are members of it to lend a voice of reason and hope to sway others back to orthodoxy, but the fact remains: the LWF has no teeth to demand conformity. I should note that several members of the ILC which are not concurrently members of the LWF have participated in Lutheran-Catholic Dialogues. The LCMS, for example, has participated in all but one round of the talks. I didn’t mean to imply that the LWF was the only dialogue game in town, just that it got the ball rolling. If you ask Confessionals, it’s long since outlived its usefulness. But some, like the IELC, hold out hope (and keep dual membership).

And what happens to ILC membership should the LWF institute require changes in praxis to its member churches?

We’re delving into hypotheticals. I would presume that anything requiring the abandonment of Confessional Lutheranism would result in exclusion from the ILC. The CELC is even stricter. Generally, the churches that maintain dual membership are small and in the third-world. They have desperate need of goods and services, so they bite the bullet and work with less-Lutheran bodies.

Do all these bodies/conferences see the other as (authentically,sufficiently) Lutheran?

The LWF could be convinced that Zoroastrians are Lutheran. Their only standard is the Augsburg Confession, and sometimes not even that (altered versions are often accepted). The ILC and CELC, on the other hand, adhere to the entirety of the Unaltered Augsburg Confession and the Book of Concord, considering subscription to it in a ‘quia’ manner to be what defines a church as ‘Lutheran.’ (Lutheranism is not a monolithic church, after all, but a heritage akin to ‘Byzantine’ - those rites could be Catholic or Orthodox). This means they, while acknowledging that there are Lutheran bodies within the LWF, do not recognize many of the bodies in the LWF to be orthodox Lutherans, if Lutheran at all. Sometimes you’ll get an official announcement, but more often than not you’ll just live with the fact that because two bodies do not share fellowship/communion, one is deficient in some way. This varies by degree. You know that good ol’ Pope Shenouda “Orthodoxy is orthodoxy” quote? Same-ish deal with Lutheranism.

WELS/ELS and the LCMS recognize each other as authentically Lutheran, though each would say that the other suffers from heterodoxy. When the three get together, they discuss certain matters and then hurl friendly rebukes and calls to repentance at each other. The LCMS saved WELS from heresy back in the 1850-60’s, and WELS/ELS called Missouri to repentance during the tumultuous 1960-70’s. Both essentially saved each other. Not so different from Orthodoxy in that respect. Good family.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Could you further explain the WELS/ELS stance on only communing from one’s home parish? That’s stricter than even closed communion as generally understood. It could be called closed-bolted Communion (in jest)

 

[steido01]

Could you further explain the WELS/ELS stance on only communing from one’s home parish? That’s stricter than even closed communion as generally understood. It could be called closed-bolted Communion (in jest)

Ha! That it could. I should be clearer; WELS pastors do have some degree of pastoral discretion (though peer pressure from their Ministerium permits less leeway than their LCMS counterparts). In practice, WELS members typically have no real problem communing at other WELS churches. The reasons are Scriptural and essentially the same as every other body that practices closed communion. In the words of the WELS website:

• We want to protect souls who might do damage to themselves since the Lord’s Supper is for believers who are not only baptized but also instructed and knowledgeable about what they receive in the sacrament and why.
• We want to protect souls since those who commune are to examine themselves prior to communing, so we want to be sure those who commune with us have been trained how to do this and possess the level of understanding and maturity to make it meaningful.
• We want to protect souls and show integrity as we publicly confess Bible truths since all who commune together are expressing unity in the Christian faith and in their allegience to the Bible. We want this expression to be genuine and not a sham or hypocritical pretending we have unity if indeed we don’t.

Who would know his parishioners better than the local pastor? It’s surprisingly reasonable when you think about it.