LDS & Alcohol.

[Porknpie]

I’m sorry you feel that way brother, but we’ll have to disagree. I’ve grown up my whole life around family that is nothing more then a bunch of junkies. I feel that alcohol is the main root of evil next to pornography. I don’t think Christ would have tainted himself with it.
For myself to hold on to so much anger over junkies and drunks, and try to seek forgiveness to them for the absolute hell in my life that they caused, then to go to church and ask Christ for help and read the bulletin petitioning with request for alcohol; for a raffle at a " Family fair" or advertise with the bulletin the family owned " Bar and Grill" is an absolute punch in the face. I’ll always see bartenders and owners, liquor store owners as predators and an enemy. That is why I believe the LDS is right about alcohol
Anyway, peace.

Jessup -

I can understand your family situation. The devil probes us for what tempts each of us. Each one of us are tempted to different degrees by different sins. The list is long…pray for your family members which I am sure that you do.

I take comfort that the devil does not know my thoughts.

Peace2u,

Pork

 

[Jessup]

Well, you would be wrong. Christ was a Jew and he drank wine which, as others have said, is a requirement of celebrating the Passover. His first miracle was creating wine.

Now, as to the reality of living in an alcoholic and/or addicted household, I can think of little if anything that can quite compare to that nightmare. I have experienced it in my own family and can very honestly say there were times when I didn’t know how I was going to make it. I remember seeing people on the street smile yet I could not remember what it felt like to be happy. It is an all-consuming disease, but it is a disease that not all people have. I think we tend to go too far one way or the other. There were times when I would have given anything to live in a dry country, much less a dry county. But the truth is that there are many, the majority, in fact, who can drink responsibly. For those who cannot, I don’t have an answer. I wish it was something that could be diagnosed and that those who are alcoholic were somehow prohibited from buying alocohol, but that is just another of the pathetic day dreams that use to run through my head. Anyway, I can empathize, brother, but there really are two sides to this coin.

 If I could live my life with peace in it, and be able to have a family, all that good stuff, not be expected to go to clubs and give them my money to have a " good time" then I don't think the alcohol would bother me. My sanctuary as a teenager was with

Nazi Skinhead youth to get away from alcohol and drugs , that was consumed around me. Those where the two extremes; growing up. The only reason I’m not LDS right now, is because of one doctrine I disagree with in their church.

 

[Jessup]

Jessup -

I can understand your family situation. The devil probes us for what tempts each of us. Each one of us are tempted to different degrees by different sins. The list is long…pray for your family members which I am sure that you do.

I take comfort that the devil does not know my thoughts.

Peace2u,

Pork

Nah, I don’t pray for them, I begrudge them.

 

[SteveVH]

If I could live my life with peace in it, and be able to have a family, all that good stuff, not be expected to go to clubs and give them my money to have a " good time" then I don’t think the alcohol would bother me. My sanctuary as a teenager was with Nazi Skinhead youth to get away from alcohol and drugs , that was consumed around me. Those where the two extremes; growing up. The only reason I’m not LDS right now, is because of one doctrine I disagree with in their church.

I pray that you find peace, Jessup. I’ve seen the same darkness. You were wise in not choosing the LDS church based upon this one issue. I would say the same about any church. Believe it or not, God can bring you peace even now.

 

[Janderich]

But you have no apostles.

Since you don’t have any apostles, your so called “revelations”, are immaterial, and false.

 

[SteveVH]

I think he means from a Catholic point of view. If we’re right, your “apostles” have no authority. We all realize that you believe you have legitimate apostles.

 

[Porknpie]

Nah, I don’t pray for them, I begrudge them.

John 13 “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.”

Also keep in mind that Jesus says to forgive 70 x 70 so that we ourselves will be forgiven.

I won’t tell you that following Jesus is always easy …something to think about above. Somehow you’ve made it this far and sounds like things could have turned out far worse (than being Catholic ). The Lord has a plan for you. Continue to get to know him better and follow where he leads you.

Pork.

 

[twopekinguys]

Don’t you recognize your quote? It’s from a thread you abandoned. Kind of funny how applicable it is here though.

 

[SteveVH]

John 13 “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.”

Also keep in mind that Jesus says to forgive 70 x 70 so that we ourselves will be forgiven.

I won’t tell you that following Jesus is always easy …something to think about above. Somehow you’ve made it this far and sounds like things could have turned out far worse (than being Catholic ). The Lord has a plan for you. Continue to get to know him better and follow where he leads you.

Pork.

Something that might help here, at least it helped me forgive, is to know that the alcoholic or addict is suffering severely. Yes, they have literally destroyed the lives of those around them, but no one worse than themselves. Forgiveness is a decision, not a feeling. I will certainly not pretend that I have not been hurt. But what hurts us even more, what holds us as slaves, is unforgiveness. The Lord’s Prayer is a very dangerous prayer. We ask God to forgive us as we have forgiven others. Not any easy thing to do, but necessary nonetheless.

 

[Jessup]

Something that might help here, at least it helped me forgive, is to know that the alcoholic or addict is suffering severely. Yes, they have literally destroyed the lives of those around them, but no one worse than themselves. Forgiveness is a decision, not a feeling. I will certainly not pretend that I have not been hurt. But what hurts us even more, what holds us as slaves, is unforgiveness. The Lord’s Prayer is a very dangerous prayer. We ask God to forgive us as we have forgiven others. Not any easy thing to do, but necessary nonetheless.

How do you forgive when God won’t help you move on? I can’t forgive and let by
gones be by gones with out some help from Jesus, he doesn’t seem to want to help, for what ever reason I did to him. . When God gives me some of that Magic healing that he gave other " Christians" in the testimonies I hear so much about; like last night at the charismatic conference I went to for instance, then I’m all for moving on and leaving the past behind until then they will always be my enemies and I will protect myself from them by what ever means necessary.

 

[Porknpie]

How do you forgive when God won’t help you move on? I can’t forgive and let by
gones be by gones with out some help from Jesus, he doesn’t seem to want to help, for what ever reason I did to him. . When God gives me some of that Magic healing that he gave other " Christians" in the testimonies I hear so much about; like last night at the charismatic conference I went to for instance, then I’m all for moving on and leaving the past behind until then they will always be my enemies and I will protect myself from them by what ever means necessary.

Jessup -

Sometimes it’s hard to recognize how God works in our lives & how he leads us. The fact that you are here speaks volumes. Clarity is often seen in hindsight rather than in one “moment”. A priest earlier this year said something that I’ll always remember…“don’t look behind, don’t look side to side, look forward.” We can be weighed down by our sins and by what others have done to us. Go to reconciliation often, weekly if needed. Reconciliation cleanses us of our sins. Christ has forgiven us as a father foregives his son or daughter. We have to accept this grace. Reconciliation also gives us a chance to talk to the priest on what caused us to sin and gain wisdom on how we can move on without malice or any grudges. If you fall down again, go back to reconciliation and ask for the forgiveness again. Continue going back. Doing so will change you. Christ forgives 70 x 70, always to one who sincerely repents.

If you have Eucharistic Adoration near you, try spending at least an hour a week in prayer. It’s changed my life. There was never a “moment” but the added grace has slowly changed me in time, increasing the desire to know & love him. I look forward to my hour with him every week.

(where is the sand pile?)

 

[TexanKnight]

I do not believe that statement, because Noah got drunk from some wine only per (Genesis 9:21):
"When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent."

That does not mean it did not have a much lower alcohol content. A person can get a buzz drinking a lot of Nyquil.

So, a person getting drunk on wine only means he drank enough to get drunk, whether it be 2 glasses of very high alcohol content, or 40 glasses of very low

 

[TexanKnight]

To understand the LDS way of thinking you must first understand that the Word of Wisdom is revelation from God. We take it as nothing less. Over the last 150+ years man is beginning to catch up to what has been revealed.

That is a huge stretch. People knew way back then that alcohol was bad and that tobacco could cause problems. And, to date, no one has EVER got ill over hot drinks…since there was no specifity in “hot drinks” one can infer anything.

 

[Pork_Roll]

I feel that alcohol is the main root of evil next to pornography. I don’t think Christ would have tainted himself with it.

Alcohol is not evil. People’s abuse of the alcohol is. If alcohol is evil, so is food because people eat too much food and die from being overweight.

This idea that alcohol is evil is trying to imply that God’s creation is evil. Alcohol in of itself, like anything else God has created is good. It’s how man abuses it. Stop blaming the substance and blame the act.

I’m sorry, but this idea that material matter is evil is straight out of gnosticism. Gnosticism is evil, just like old Joe Smith, not alcohol. I’m tired of this stupidity from Mormonism.

If I recall correctly, it’s one of the reasons Glenn Beck became LDS, and it’s saved his life, literally, he claims.

Glenn Beck was an alcoholic. He was ill and should have stopped drinking. His abuse of alcohol is a form of slavery. Mormonism is doesn’t save anyone, only the catholic church does.

 

[AshJade]

I was raised Mormon, and I left the church at 18. One of the things that drew me to Catholicism is that we are allowed to use our God given reason. Mormons are told ridiculous lies, and are punished if they question them.

 

[Janderich]

I feel that alcohol is the main root of evil next to pornography. I don’t think Christ would have tainted himself with it.

Pork Roll, Jessup posted the above comment. He/She is not LDS. LDS do not believe that alcohol of itself is evil. Rather, it is a tool which can be, and is, easily abused causing a person to lose his or her agency for a time. We do not drink it because the Lord has told us not to do so.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Mormon ways of viewing and thinking about a lot of things continues on for a longggg time after leaving. Most people, including myself, run into “Mormon-think” for the rest of their lives.

It is what it is. Just have to stop, reevaluate, see things in a new light and move on.

Everyone who enjoys an alcoholic beverage now and then is not an alcoholic. (It is the Mormon-think that says they are.) But I can understand the aversion to alcohol if it has been a factor in making your life hell.

I see nothing wrong with abstaining from alcohol, Mormon or not. There isn’t a rule that says you better enjoy drinking and drink often.

 

[GaryTaylor]

We do not drink it because the Lord has told us not to do so.

Where, when and how?

 

[Sam_777]

To understand the LDS way of thinking you must first understand that the Word of Wisdom is revelation from God.

Revelation to whom !!!, I would have accepted that claim if Joseph Smith was really a saint, but he was giving instructions and not following it himself as shown in this post.

 

[Sam_777]

Alcohol is not evil. People’s abuse of the alcohol is. If alcohol is evil, so is food because people eat too much food and die from being overweight.

This idea that alcohol is evil is trying to imply that God’s creation is evil. Alcohol in of itself, like anything else God has created is good. It’s how man abuses it. Stop blaming the substance and blame the act.

A good point, but keep in mind that when GOD sees that humans abused something then He will give guidances to follow, and indeed He did:

(1 Corinthians 10:23):
*“Everything is permissible"but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible”–but not everything is constructive.”

*(1 Corinthians 6:9-10):
"Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."