LDS and ancient record...

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eo_chibears

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Whatever became of the ancient record that had been buried?
 
Joseph Smith claimed that the angel Moroni came and took the plates back. They are presumably in heaven.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
eo_chibears said:
Whatever became of the ancient record that had been buried?
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Let’s face it. When all you have is the word of one man who was not the most honest of citizens, it is entirely possible that the whole thing is FAKE.
 
Miriam1947 said:
Let’s face it. When all you have is the word of one man who was not the most honest of citizens, it is entirely possible that the whole thing is FAKE.
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I wonder then how LDS members can reconcile this. I don’t see how it’s possible to follow this religion.
 
Miriam1947 said:
Let’s face it. When all you have is the word of one man who was not the most honest of citizens, it is entirely possible that the whole thing is FAKE.
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I find scripture comforting on this topic
Matthew 7
True and False Prophets
15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
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I see ‘good fruits’ from the LDS tree, in the lives of the LDS I know.
 
eo_chibears said:
I wonder then how LDS members can reconcile this. I don’t see how it’s possible to follow this religion.
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When people are born into a religion and are raised by loving parents who hold faith very dearly, it is very common for these people to stay with it. There are exceptions of course (for example, me). 😃

But it is something that I have often wanted to ask a mormon, “if you were not raised mormon, what do you suppose are the chances that you would be one now?”
 
PaulDupre said:
Joseph Smith claimed that the angel Moroni came and took the plates back. They are presumably in heaven.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
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At least they know they don’t have to worry about if their translation is correct!
 
eo_chibears said:
I wonder then how LDS members can reconcile this. I don’t see how it’s possible to follow this religion.
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Hi, eo_chibears,

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.

I see that you have wondered about the “golden plates” and about Joseph Smith and how Latter-day Saints believe he was called to be a modern-day prophet.

It ought to be quite apparent to people who think about God and how He deals with people on earth, that His ways are not man’s ways, and that the idea for example, “how very convenient that the golden plates were taken back by Moroni rather than left where they could be seen by any curious person so they could have proof that that record existed” would be one of “man’s ways” of doing things.

God’s way of doing things is to allow there to be not only a need for faith, but to allow that the only way to come to know God on a deeply personal level is to have a spiritual experience from the heart–not a mortal experience using the eyes or the ears, but an experience that touches the soul and spirit on a deeper level than using the eyes or ears alone.

Latter-day Saints have experienced this kind of spiritual experience when they have sincerely read the Book of Mormon, if they are familiar with the Bible and desire spiritual truths to guide their life. The book “rings true” for them, but doesn’t for outside readers, many of whom scoff at it when they read even one page.

So, to each their own. The doubters’ theories about how the Book of Mormon was written are extremely flawed, but allow for an easy dismissal by those who like reasons to give it an easy dismissal, so again to each their own. As a fifty-times reader of the Book of Mormon and a ten-times or more reader of the Bible, I for one love both sources of scripture from a loving God and His Beloved Son, and learn from them each time I read either one or read chapters from either one.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and all readers.👍
 
ParkerD said:
Hi, eo_chibears,

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.

I see that you have wondered about the “golden plates” and about Joseph Smith and how Latter-day Saints believe he was called to be a modern-day prophet.

It ought to be quite apparent to people who think about God and how He deals with people on earth, that His ways are not man’s ways, and that the idea for example, “how very convenient that the golden plates were taken back by Moroni rather than left where they could be seen by any curious person so they could have proof that that record existed” would be one of “man’s ways” of doing things.

God’s way of doing things is to allow there to be not only a need for faith, but to allow that the only way to come to know God on a deeply personal level is to have a spiritual experience from the heart–not a mortal experience using the eyes or the ears, but an experience that touches the soul and spirit on a deeper level than using the eyes or ears alone.

Latter-day Saints have experienced this kind of spiritual experience when they have sincerely read the Book of Mormon, if they are familiar with the Bible and desire spiritual truths to guide their life. The book “rings true” for them, but doesn’t for outside readers, many of whom scoff at it when they read even one page.

So, to each their own. The doubters’ theories about how the Book of Mormon was written are extremely flawed, but allow for an easy dismissal by those who like reasons to give it an easy dismissal, so again to each their own. As a fifty-times reader of the Book of Mormon and a ten-times or more reader of the Bible, I for one love both sources of scripture from a loving God and His Beloved Son, and learn from them each time I read either one or read chapters from either one.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and all readers.👍
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Yes, kinda like having mortal men who will die pass on Traditions orally to other mortal men who will also die.😉

I used to live and breath the BOM and experienced “spiritual completeness” from reading it but have since learned that you can’t name a feeling “faith”.
 
ParkerD said:
Hi, eo_chibears,

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.

I see that you have wondered about the “golden plates” and about Joseph Smith and how Latter-day Saints believe he was called to be a modern-day prophet.

It ought to be quite apparent to people who think about God and how He deals with people on earth, that His ways are not man’s ways, and that the idea for example, “how very convenient that the golden plates were taken back by Moroni rather than left where they could be seen by any curious person so they could have proof that that record existed” would be one of “man’s ways” of doing things.

God’s way of doing things is to allow there to be not only a need for faith, but to allow that the only way to come to know God on a deeply personal level is to have a spiritual experience from the heart–not a mortal experience using the eyes or the ears, but an experience that touches the soul and spirit on a deeper level than using the eyes or ears alone.

Latter-day Saints have experienced this kind of spiritual experience when they have sincerely read the Book of Mormon, if they are familiar with the Bible and desire spiritual truths to guide their life. The book “rings true” for them, but doesn’t for outside readers, many of whom scoff at it when they read even one page.

So, to each their own. The doubters’ theories about how the Book of Mormon was written are extremely flawed, but allow for an easy dismissal by those who like reasons to give it an easy dismissal, so again to each their own. As a fifty-times reader of the Book of Mormon and a ten-times or more reader of the Bible, I for one love both sources of scripture from a loving God and His Beloved Son, and learn from them each time I read either one or read chapters from either one.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and all readers.👍
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But Parker, Jesus showed Doubting Thomas his wounds. And he believed.

I don’t have to see the wounds of Jesus to believe but NOBODY actually saw those golden plates.
 
Miriam1947 said:
But Parker, Jesus showed Doubting Thomas his wounds. And he believed.

I don’t have to see the wounds of Jesus to believe but NOBODY actually saw those golden plates.
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From what I’ve read, not even the supposed ‘witnesses’ actually saw the plates with their own eyes. They supposedly weren’t allowed to look at them directly (I guess they might have gone blind if they did) but only ‘saw’ them in some kind of ‘vision’, and that was the extent of their ‘sworn testimony’ that they were real. 🤷

In case anyone’s interested… I have a famous NY bridge for sale. 😃
 
Miriam1947 said:
But Parker, Jesus showed Doubting Thomas his wounds. And he believed.

I don’t have to see the wounds of Jesus to believe but NOBODY actually saw those golden plates.
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Hi, Miriam,

Thomas was not identified as a positive example in the account of his needing to see to believe.

I don’t need God to hand me truths for my life, to help give it more meaning and delight through His truths, on a golden platter in order to know that those truths are true.

But as I noted earlier, to each their own.

Happy Thanksgiving to you, and may it be so for those you love also.
 
ParkerD said:
Hi, Miriam,

Thomas was not identified as a positive example in the account of his needing to see to believe.

I don’t need God to hand me truths for my life, to help give it more meaning and delight through His truths, on a golden platter in order to know that those truths are true.

But as I noted earlier, to each their own.

Happy Thanksgiving to you, and may it be so for those you love also.
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He wasn’t identified as a negative either. Jesus didn’t rebuke Thomas, he only said “Blessed are those who believe and have not seen.” Notice in the beattitudes Jesus isn’t condemning those who are not peaceful, humble, etc. just that those who are have been given a gift of God’s grace that we should feel blessed to experience. If the opposite were the the case then we would not be following the best example if we haven’t been blessed with the opportunity to be pursecuted or martyred. And what is wrong with visual aids?
 
Telstar said:
From what I’ve read, not even the supposed ‘witnesses’ actually saw the plates with their own eyes. They supposedly weren’t allowed to look at them directly (I guess they might have gone blind if they did) but only ‘saw’ them in some kind of ‘vision’, and that was the extent of their ‘sworn testimony’ that they were real. 🤷

In case anyone’s interested… I have a famous NY bridge for sale. 😃
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Oh, but they did heft them.

And if that’s good enough for Mark Twain, that’s good enough for me. 😉
 
I have a friend who gave me a “dissertation” on his studies of his faith as a response to four questions I had for him and somewhere in the 20 pages was something about a ring of mountains that form the Pacific Islands that was supposedly mentioned in the BOM. Anyone else hear anything like that?
 
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