LDS and ancient record...

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ParkerD said:
Crdle2Grv,

They are not dramatic evidences, although I have heard several different sources tell of a visitor who was a great teacher among the ancient American inhabitants, which I think is dramatic.

The other evidences are what I would consider “only clues”, but others would consider “coincidental” or “not a clue at all.”
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You have said it. No Evidence
 
Parker, I hope your daughter is ok…that’s sad. I’ll add you guys to my prayer list.
I’ll deal with the other evidences you listed in a bit.
 
Dear Parker,

Keep you and your daughter in prayers, and hope you are not impacted by inclement weather…no harm to you…

As we pray for you, you pray for us…seek the Truth…
 
Originally Posted by pablope View Post
Hmmmm…so Parker…how could a stylus make an imprint on an alloy plate? Unless it is pressed to somehow, chiseled?
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Was this some sort of special stylus?
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And where do you get such details are Nephi and Mormon making the plates…and the others writing in the already made plates? Is this in the Book of Mormon?
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And this is for the future, correct? So how could they know how many plates to make?
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ParkerD said:
Pablope,
I used the word “stylus” just as a comparison word for a “sharp object with hardness (in physics) harder than the surface being inscribed”. They would have had to figure out how to do that, or be inspired how to do that.
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ParkerD said:
Hi, Jerusha,

It’s that I’ve found that a daughter of mine whose health is fragile, seems to improve if I go ahead and get involved again in this forum after she had taken a turn for the worse, even though my personal preference would be to let it be. But I assume it won’t be much longer that she will be better and I will have given my perspective on the subjects brought up as questions.
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I hope your daughter gets to regain her full health…she will be in my prayers as well, and will light a candle for her.

You know, there is always the Virgin Mary to turn to for help…all you have to do is do believe in her intercession…and pray the rosary…for the sake of your daughter. :signofcross::highprayer::byzsoc:
 
In intaglio print-making there is a technique called dry-point, and the tool used to accomplish it is called a stylus. It is essentially making a drawing on a metal (zinc, usually) by scratching the surface. The cut is not as deep as that achieved by an engraving tool (called a burin). The tool is similar to what machinists would call a “scriber”. About as long as a pencil, made of hardened steel, with a sharp point on the end. The same stylus is also used for creating etchings, it allows the artist to draw through the hard, waxy “ground” coating on an etching plate. The dry-point technique makes an image much like a pen-and-ink line drawing.
 
JHow said:
In intaglio print-making there is a technique called dry-point, and the tool used to accomplish it is called a stylus. It is essentially making a drawing on a metal (zinc, usually) by scratching the surface. The cut is not as deep as that achieved by an engraving tool (called a burin). The tool is similar to what machinists would call a “scriber”. About as long as a pencil, made of hardened steel, with a sharp point on the end. The same stylus is also used for creating etchings, it allows the artist to draw through the hard, waxy “ground” coating on an etching plate. The dry-point technique makes an image much like a pen-and-ink line drawing.
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Good info…but the question is…did the ancient peoples of the BOM know this technique? How old is this technique?

And would this technique work on gold plates? Is there archeological evidence this was used by the people of the BOM?
 
ParkerD said:
Hi, Jerusha,

It’s that I’ve found that a daughter of mine whose health is fragile, seems to improve if I go ahead and get involved again in this forum after she had taken a turn for the worse, even though my personal preference would be to let it be. But I assume it won’t be much longer that she will be better and I will have given my perspective on the subjects brought up as questions.
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I am deeply saddened from your situation and for your daughter. You both will be in my prayer.

From your writing one things comes out: you want to say that your writing here to defend mormon believes is a mission from God and His signature is because when you write she gets better? I am very sorry for your analogy. Christianity is not a religion for “personal” gain. It is for personal loss. Who follow Christ, more or less deeper, loose their personal lives and gains for “something more” that cannot be tasted by who doesn’t have it yet.
The rest is magic.
I don’t think a religion is true because it allow us to make more money or because I am in better physical shape. This way it will make stronger our individuality our subjectivism, our truth based on our emotive feelings, our “normality”. This is found in a way in the OT, in the material blessing. But Jesus came. And things evolved. I say evolved. Evolution means changing in continuity. There is inside me a myself that is 6 years old but I don’t act as I was 6 since I am 45. Things for me changed but I am myself now as I was myself when I was 6. I was always myself. Never there was a time when I was somebody else.

Jesus came to save us from our “normality”. We didn’t deserve it and we don’t deserve it.
The only thing that makes us deserving something is our faith. And yet…the discussion can be long on the subject.

That He can heal your daughter for no reason it is what I hope and wish from the deep of my heart, for you and her.
May He make you strong to face this situation and may she be healed.
I hope our Father will hear our prayer and His Will be done whatever It will be, I hope our Blessed Virgin may be have the patience to intercede with her prayers for you and her
please Jesus Christ son of God have mercy on them
 
pablope said:
Good info…but the question is…did the ancient peoples of the BOM know this technique?
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To answer that we need to know if the ancient peoples of the BOM existed.
pablope said:
How old is this technique?
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I don’t know how old it is, but it is essentially scratching the metal with a sharp object.
pablope said:
And would this technique work on gold plates?
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I don’t see why not - other than the expense of it. It works on zinc and copper, which are harder than gold.
pablope said:
Is there archeological evidence this was used by the people of the BOM?
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I would guess none at all. It just seems beside the point to me to quibble over techniques of inscribing plates, when there are such giant elephants in the room like not having the plates at all, not having the language or alphabet, not having the peoples involved…having nothing, in fact but the word of Smith. It’s like debating whether or not light-sabers really have enough battery power to cut through steel doors.
 
JHow said:
It just seems beside the point to me to quibble over techniques of inscribing plates, when there are such giant elephants in the room like not having the plates at all, not having the language or alphabet, not having the peoples involved…having nothing, in fact but the word of Smith. It’s like debating whether or not light-sabers really have enough battery power to cut through steel doors.
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I couldn’t agree more - problem is, there are people out there who actually put their faith in it all, despite overwhelming proofs to the contrary of the Mormon faith.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again.
There is a maor difference between sheep following the Shepherd, and lemmings simply following another lemming off the cliff.
 
theidler said:
I couldn’t agree more - problem is, there are people out there who actually put their faith in it all, despite overwhelming proofs to the contrary of the Mormon faith.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again.
There is a maor difference between sheep following the Shepherd, and lemmings simply following another lemming off the cliff.
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theidler said:
Pretty much friend, pretty much. Though I imagine it more in a linear fashion.😉
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I know it’s probably not very ‘charitable’ of me, but I just couldn’t resist posting that pic. I’ve read the “lemmings” analogy a couple of times over the past few days, and I finally gave in to the temptation to post it. It seemed apropos to me, with my warped sense of humor. 😃
 
ParkerD said:
Hi, Jerusha,

It’s that I’ve found that a daughter of mine whose health is fragile, seems to improve if I go ahead and get involved again in this forum after she had taken a turn for the worse, even though my personal preference would be to let it be. But I assume it won’t be much longer that she will be better and I will have given my perspective on the subjects brought up as questions.
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Finding peace at a Catholic website…it isn’t here that brings peace, it is in the arms of Jesus, at the foot of His Cross, in His Sacred Heart, where we are ransomed by God’s Love. The hymn Abide In Me 'Tis Eventide, is still one of my favorites. John 15, abide in me and I abide in you…parahrasing. You are still in my prayers ParkerD. God brings you here for a reason, which only you can discern. Seek out Jesus Christ, pray to Him. He is the only means by which we are healed.

May the peace of Our Lord Jesus Christ be with you and your family.
 
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