LDS and baptism

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Marie5890 said:
No, name removal, or resigning one’s membership is not the same as excommunication.

Name removal is done by the member who seeks it.

Excommunication is done by the church.

Name removal from any organization, including ecclesial, is a protected right under the freedom of religion clause in the Constitution.

There is legal precendence for it, and it’s not “only” Mormons.

oscn.net/applications/oscn/deliverdocument.asp?citeid=10494

Constitution right.

mormonresignation.com/resign_legalrights.html
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The USCCB disagrees with you, in regard to Catholic baptismal records.
An official from the Roman Catholic Church says that it is “impossible” to undergo “de-baptism” as a growing number of people in Western Europe and the United States request such a process.
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Jeannine Marino, program specialist for evangelization & catechesis at the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, told CP that atheists who seek to be “de-baptized” or “un-baptized” cannot technically do so.
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“From the Church’s perspective, it is impossible to ‘un-baptize’ or ‘de-baptize’ someone because we believe that baptism permanently seals the person to Christ and the Church,” said Marino.
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“If the request to be ‘de-baptized’ is meant to have one’s name removed from the baptismal records, this would not be allowed since the baptismal record is a record of historical facts,” said Marino.
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USA Today article: Atheists choose ‘de-baptism’ to renounce childhood faith
Atheist Gary Mueller recently mailed his de-baptism certificate to St. Bonaventure Catholic Church in Concord, Calif., and asked to be dropped from its baptismal record. The church told him, in effect, that he was all wet.
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"While we do not remove a name/person from a Baptism register, we can note alongside your name that ‘you have left the Roman Catholic Church,’ " the Rev. Richard Mangini replied in an e-mail. “I hope that God surprises you one day and lets you know that He is quite well.”
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Thank you, Elizium.
“From the Church’s perspective, it is impossible to ‘un-baptize’ or ‘de-baptize’ someone because we believe that baptism permanently seals the person to Christ and the Church,” said Marino.
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Good for the Catholic church on this one for standing their ground. Like I said, the Constitution should not be treated like it supersedes God’s authority.
iepuras said:
Priesthood gets taken away. I’ll dig through my papers and post the full text.
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Thank you, iepuras
 
Marie5890 said:
You have missed the point.

Former Mormons are not requesting to be “unbaptised”. They are seeking name removal.
The LDS church then makes them “unbaptized”

Oh never mind. Mormons and Catholics dont speak the same language anyway, even though they use the same words.
Its not worth the effort.
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You claimed that name removal from church records is a constitutional right. The fact that this procedure is widely called “debaptism” is neither here nor there, I was merely quoting news stories that prove the Catholic Church does not honor name removal as a right because it conflicts with the legal obligations parishes have under Canon Law.
 
Elizium23 said:
You claimed that name removal from church records is a constitutional right. The fact that this procedure is widely called “debaptism” is neither here nor there, I was merely quoting news stories that prove the Catholic Church does not honor name removal as a right because it conflicts with the legal obligations parishes have under Canon Law.
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It’s not about “debaptism”…

That word is not even used… 🤷
 
hs_hopeful said:
Does resigning one’s membership/removal from church records equal excommunication?
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Doesn’t equal excommunication but does require another Mormon baptism for anyone who chooses to return after resigning.
 
Elizium23 said:
You claimed that name removal from church records is a constitutional right. The fact that this procedure is widely called “debaptism” is neither here nor there, I was merely quoting news stories that prove the Catholic Church does not honor name removal as a right because it conflicts with the legal obligations parishes have under Canon Law.
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“Resigning” from the Catholic Church doesn’t really mean much in practice because no one is “unbaptized” and the Catholic Church doesn’t track its members or send missionaries or local leadership to harass Catholics who no longer attend Mass.

Resigning actually means something to ex-Mormons. It provides us some legal protection from being harassed by Mormon missionaries and local members. It is the LDS church that has decided that resignation also has spiritual consequences such as losing the effects of baptism and the priesthood. We resigned primarily to keep local Mormons from showing up uninvited on our doorstep. For the most part, it has worked. If they would leave us alone, I might not have bothered resigning.
 
iepuras said:
“Resigning” from the Catholic Church doesn’t really mean much in practice because no one is “unbaptized” and the Catholic Church doesn’t track its members or send missionaries or local leadership to harass Catholics who no longer attend Mass.

Resigning actually means something to ex-Mormons. It provides us some legal protection from being harassed by Mormon missionaries and local members. It is the LDS church that has decided that resignation also has spiritual consequences such as losing the effects of baptism and the priesthood. We resigned primarily to keep local Mormons from showing up uninvited on our doorstep. For the most part, it has worked. If they would leave us alone, I might not have bothered resigning.
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^^^^^and this…

Sorry folks. Been a long day for me, full of rage. Has made it hard to articulate my thoughts.

Thanks to Rebecca and Iepuras for being able to take the time to clearly articulate the difference.

And yes, there IS a difference
 
Marie5890 said:
^^^^^and this…

Sorry folks. Been a long day for me, full of rage. Has made it hard to articulate my thoughts.

Thanks to Rebecca and Iepuras for being able to take the time to clearly articulate the difference.

And yes, there IS a difference
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Sorry it’s been such a rough day for you! Prayers will be said for you from H-town! It’s been a long week for me but it was work related plus, I’ve been sick. Yuck! But it’s Friday! Time for a glass of wine and a toast to all my fellow ex-Mos!
 
Marie5890 said:
^^^^^and this…

Sorry folks. Been a long day for me, full of rage. Has made it hard to articulate my thoughts.

Thanks to Rebecca and Iepuras for being able to take the time to clearly articulate the difference.

And yes, there IS a difference
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Not really. 🙂 both get you out.
 
TexanKnight said:
not sure what it is today, but back in the day, if you asked to have your name removed, they ex’d you.

Once I realized the LDS Church was false, I sent a letter requesting my name be removed from Church records. Instead of a letter saying it had been done, I got a letter telling me they were going to hold a church court to ex me. I sent a letter saying they did not have to go thru all that trouble. I said I agreed to have my name removed.

A few weeks later, I got a letter saying the court was held and I was excommunicated.

It was the old “you can’t quit because I fired you”.

Made me laugh
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Same here. In 1986 when I hand-delivered a message to my bishop stating that my wife and I wanted our names removed from the records of the church and why, I (but not my wife) received a notice (hand delivered by the EQ president and the other counselor in the bishopric - talk about your awkward moments!) that I was summoned to appear in a church court hearing on a certain date. Of course I did not attend. A few weeks after that, the same two men hand-delivered a letter ostensibly from the 1st Presidency (though I very much doubt that - probably some clerk) addressed to both my wife and me telling us that we had both been excommunicated for the sin of apostasy.

Like TK said, “You can’t quit, you’re fired!”

My wife was more than a bit put out that they ex-ed her without even asking to speak with her about it - they only wanted to talk to me.

That was before there was such a thing as the internet. Since then, with the avalanche of requests for withdrawal, the process has, of necessity, become much more streamlined and less hostile. Now it is simply an ordinary administrative function. Your local leaders need not even be involved - you can request directly by mail or email to the church membership department at the COB in SLC.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
iepuras said:
Sorry it’s been such a rough day for you! Prayers will be said for you from H-town! It’s been a long week for me but it was work related plus, I’ve been sick. Yuck! But it’s Friday! Time for a glass of wine and a toast to all my fellow ex-Mos!
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This!

It is a regular part of my daily prayers that my 2 family members and everyone else still enslaved to this cult get free one day.

Raising a toast to all of you fellow ex-Mos! Isn’t it wonderful to be free?

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
Thanks you guys. And prayers for all of you as well.

And yes, Paul, I’m glad I am out and have been out for a very long time.

Thank you, Lord, for being out of that particular cage. I am forever you (hopefully) humble disciple.

In Christ 's name. Amen
 
Unfortunately, our resignation letters seem to have been sucked into another dimension. I hope it is only temporary. :crying:

Yes, it is marvelous to be free! Jesus truly came to set the captives free. Deo Gratias!
 
iepuras said:
Unfortunately, our resignation letters seem to have been sucked into another dimension. I hope it is only temporary. :crying:

Yes, it is marvelous to be free! Jesus truly came to set the captives free. Deo Gratias!
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Yes, I often tear up a bit when I read John 8:32 “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

I think that maybe you need to have been spiritually enslaved to a cult or some other horrendous thing to really appreciate this passage.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
iepuras said:
Unfortunately, our resignation letters seem to have been sucked into another dimension. I hope it is only temporary. :crying:

Yes, it is marvelous to be free! Jesus truly came to set the captives free. Deo Gratias!
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Maybe it was disappearing ink. 😛
 
PaulDupre1 said:
Yes, I often tear up a bit when I read John 8:32 “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

I think that maybe you need to have been spiritually enslaved to a cult or some other horrendous thing to really appreciate this passage.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
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That is how I feel. Exactly how I feel. It was like the prison doors were flung open when I left the LDS Church and it was like being welcomed into a heavenly Mansion when I was confirmed Catholic.
 
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