LDS and Catholic Differences

[AMDGtoo]

(come to think of it, those may be the only memorized and scripted prayers we have…)

Just a friendly piece of information here–everytime (and I do think it’s often attached) it is said: “in the name of Jesus Christ” that qualifies as a memorized prayer. (That’s why I was so shocked and hurt when my convert daughter told me, very self-righteously I might add) that we Catholics have “canned” prayers while the LDS don’t.)

 

[dianaiad]

Just a friendly piece of information here–everytime (and I do think it’s often attached)

It is ALWAYS attached. Every time.

…it is said: “in the name of Jesus Christ” that qualifies as a memorized prayer. (That’s why I was so shocked and hurt when my convert daughter told me, very self-righteously I might add) that we Catholics have “canned” prayers while the LDS don’t.)

How in the world does that qualify as a memorized prayer? I don’t know about you, but a memorized prayer, to me, is a prayer that, in it’s totality, is recited from words written by someone else. The prayers used in the rosary are memorized.

Ending a prayer with “In the name of Jesus Christ” no more makes the prayer it ends ‘memorized’ than “sincerely yours” means that you plagiarized the letter.

the thing is, we DON’T have many ‘canned’ prayers (as I stated, the Sacrament prayers are pretty much it). At least, we aren’t supposed to. I’m sure that it becomes very easy to say pretty much the same thing every time you bless a meal, but we are supposed to be more imaginative. Prayer is, I believe, supposed to be very personal; about those things for which one is actually grateful, and for the things and help one actually needs.

…and it’s HARD to come up with something new to say every time you begin with “Dear Father in Heaven,” or “Our Father in Heaven…” and then you are on your own until you end 'In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen."

That said, there is very much a place for the reciting of creeds and prayers. Doing so really can help you get in the right frame of mind. I see nothing evil in it…it’s just that we don’t do it.

 

[jake23]

Do I have to put you on ignore? I wasn’t talking to you. I want a discussion not a monologue.

The quit the deceit! why would you put a christian on ignore? are you afraid of somthing? Why is everytime a mormon gets on here and is exposed of whatever agenda or motives they have they want to quickly put someone on ignore?

 

[MyzTek]

The quit the deceit! why would you put a christian on ignore? are you afraid of somthing? Why is **everytime **a mormon gets on here and is exposed of whatever agenda or motives they have they want to quickly put someone on ignore?

I don’t think that’s a fair analysis. Several of the Mormons I’ve exchanged messages with on here have not exhibited this behavior. It is Lent, let us be charitable, mmmmkay?

peace

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

It is ALWAYS attached. Every time.

How in the world does that qualify as a memorized prayer? I don’t know about you, but a memorized prayer, to me, is a prayer that, in it’s totality, is recited from words written by someone else. The prayers used in the rosary are memorized.

Ending a prayer with “In the name of Jesus Christ” no more makes the prayer it ends ‘memorized’ than “sincerely yours” means that you plagiarized the letter.

the thing is, we DON’T have many ‘canned’ prayers (as I stated, the Sacrament prayers are pretty much it). At least, we aren’t supposed to. I’m sure that it becomes very easy to say pretty much the same thing every time you bless a meal, but we are supposed to be more imaginative. Prayer is, I believe, supposed to be very personal; about those things for which one is actually grateful, and for the things and help one actually needs.

…and it’s HARD to come up with something new to say every time you begin with “Dear Father in Heaven,” or “Our Father in Heaven…” and then you are on your own until you end 'In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen."

That said, there is very much a place for the reciting of creeds and prayers. Doing so really can help you get in the right frame of mind. I see nothing evil in it…it’s just that we don’t do it.

Yet Christ taught us to pray the ‘Our Father’ and when He prayed in the garden, He prayed the selfsame words.

Mat 26:44 And leaving them, he went again: and he prayed the third time, saying the selfsame word.

Personally, I’ll take His example and teaching…

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

**Rev 4:8 And the four living creatures had each of them six wings: and round about and within they are full of eyes. And they rested not day and night, saying: Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come. **

 

[MyzTek]

Rev 4:8 And the four living creatures had each of them six wings: and round about and within they are full of eyes. And they rested not day and night, saying: Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come.

Good enough for God’s choir, good enough for me All believers should endeavor to ensure our prayers, memorized or not, are not “vain repetition,” but don’t forget the parable of the widow, who’s repeated cries for help were finally answered. All repetition/memorized prayer is not in vain.

peace

 

[AMDGtoo]

How in the world does that qualify as a memorized prayer?

It is a prayer. And it is memorized–in that it is said the same way everytime.

The prayers used in the rosary are memorized.

Yes I know. Words from the angel announcing Jesus’ conception. Words of Elizabeth (under the influence of the Holy Spirit.) Words of Jesus–in fact the entire Lords Prayer are Jesus’ words. Words of the Apostles in their teaching (Apostles Creed’s twelve points.)

…and it’s HARD to come up with something new to say every time you begin with “Dear Father in Heaven,” or “Our Father in Heaven…” and then you are on your own until you end 'In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen."

Forgot that memorized “Heavenly Father” that begin LDS prayers.

Oh, BTW, I mentioned the “canned” quote because that was a hurtful dig at Catholics that an LDS said to me. (“Canned” is just as offensive as referring to rosary beads as “Props”. Words do hurt and can be offensive. “Memorized”–which you have used–is much less offensive so I thank you for that.)

 

[RebeccaJ]

I wonder if the MoTab realize that “All Creatures of our God and King” is a morning prayer of the Church.

 

[mfbukowski]

This may be true for converts, however for those raised in the Church, First Communion comes before Confirmation. My brother has First Communion coming up, and he hasn’t been Confirmed yet.

Which definitely shakes the Eucharist/Temple analogy at least on a doctrinal level.

Socially it sort of holds, but not if you look into it deeper.

 

[mfbukowski]

27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.

We of course believe this too; but being a non-member does not make one “unworthy” necessarily.

In a sense I think non-members cannot be either worthy or non-worthy but are like little babies who have no understanding of the gospel. We give very small children the sacrament as soon as they are old enough to take it without choking etc.

Those who are baptized members who have committed serious sin however are held to a different standard, and should not partake of the sacrament. They should have known better.

But since the sacrament is just a piece of bread for those who think it is just a piece of bread, it doesn’t matter. It is not magic- it is the symbolism and comprehension of what it means that is important.

 

[mfbukowski]

When we refer to ‘the Sacrament’ we mean only one; what you would call ‘communion.’ We call ‘Sacrament Meeting’ that because the entire purpose of it is for the partaking of 'The Sacrament," or communion. We call the other things that you refer to as ‘sacraments’ as ‘ordinances.’

As to how we do it, members of the priesthood…priests, actually…will tear slices of bread into small pieces and put those pieces on trays. They will poor water into small paper cups that are in different trays. They will then 'bless and sanctify" the bread and water that the have prepared, using one of the very few memorized prayers we have (come to think of it, those may be the only memorized and scripted prayers we have…) and other members of the priesthood will pass the broken bread and water to the congregation where they sit. Members of the congregation will then either eat the bread and drink the water, or they will quietly pass the trays to the next person without partaking.

This is done almost immediately…at the beginning of the meeting, right after an opening prayer, an opening hymn and any immediate church business (like blessing babies…). After we partake of the Sacrament, we then have members of the congregation, who have been previously assigned/asked to do so, speak. We’ll have two or three ‘youth’ speakers (under 19) and a couple of adult speakers. Somewhere in the middle we will have a ‘rest’ hymn. After the last speaker we will have a closing song and a prayer.

That is how Sacrament meeting goes.

And to make it valid, the people in the meeting should have heard the prayer, so when we take the sacrament to shut ins, it is blessed in their presence. The breaking of the bread symbolizes the breaking of the savior’s body in the atonement.

 

[aspirant]

if you haven’t been baptized, you don’t partake of the Sacrament. The exception would be small children who, since they are sinless anyway, can’t be ‘unworthy’ of doing so—and there is some controversy about that, even.

Just out of curiosity, why would that be controversial in a Mormon context?

The prayers used in the rosary are memorized.

The vocal prayers are, meditation-- even on the same subject-- is impossible to duplicate.

Prayer is, I believe, supposed to be very personal; about those things for which one is actually grateful, and for the things and help one actually needs.

We completely agree.

…and it’s HARD to come up with something new to say every time you begin with “Dear Father in Heaven,” or “Our Father in Heaven…” and then you are on your own until you end 'In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen."

I don’t think you should have to. There is no reason you cannot make words composed by someone else in another time-- like the Psalms-- your own personal prayer.

“Canned” is just as offensive as referring to rosary beads as “Props”.

In fairness to dianiad, I think I was the first person to use the term “props” for tangible prayer aids. It was not at all intended as a “dig” or insult to Catholics-- I am Catholic, so I not only use tangible prayer aids but actively encourage their use. The term “props” was merely used as a general shorthand term for “tangible prayer aids.” I was simply trying to avoid insider jargon and favorably compare different religious practices. A Catholic term like “sacramental” may not be easily understood by non-Catholics, and though it would apply to a rosary it would not apply to a reproduction handcart.

 

[mfbukowski]

While I believe that both you and Marie have a point about emphasizing the sacred nature of the Eucharist to Catholics, and comparing it to Temple attendence for us, I think that it is incorrect to place the LDS Sacrament on the level of 'blessing [yourselves] with holy water," or indeed as any lesser event. For us the Sacrament is incredibly important…we have the most important church meeting we go to based around it! For us it is a renewal of our baptismal covenants; when partaken of worthily, it is as effective at washing away sin as the original baptism is, and certainly as effective as you believe that confession + communion is.

I agree.

 

[mfbukowski]

The quit the deceit! why would you put a christian on ignore? are you afraid of somthing? Why is everytime a mormon gets on here and is exposed of whatever agenda or motives they have they want to quickly put someone on ignore?

Not afraid of anything- we have a long history, and do not get along well.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Not afraid of anything- we have a long history, and do not get along well.

Got a grudge going there bukowski? :knight2:

 

[mfbukowski]

I wonder if the MoTab realize that “All Creatures of our God and King” is a morning prayer of the Church.

Of course. Who wrote it? It is fairly obviously “Catholic”. You will never hear anyone LDS refer to God as a “king”. To us, he is a “father”.

Even if your dad is a king, you call him “dad”, not “king”.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Of course. Who wrote it? It is fairly obviously “Catholic”. You will never hear anyone LDS refer to God as a “king”. To us, he is a “father”.

Even if your dad is a king, you call him “dad”, not “king”.

Yes, St. Francis wrote the Canticle of the Sun.

I know, I once asked a Mormon if they would celebrate the Feast of Christ the King. They were all bent out of shape and told me He wasn’t King yet. And y’all wonder why people don’t think you’re Christian.

Also, your momornism is showing. God=The Holy Trinity, not the Father alone. Most Christians, including St. Paul, have had no problem calling Christ “King”.

But wait, don’t LDS sing “Rejoice the Lord is King”?

I swear bukowski, LDS say they believe Jesus is God but things like this say otherwise.

 

[Marie5890]

While I believe that both you and Marie have a point about emphasizing the sacred nature of the Eucharist to Catholics, and comparing it to Temple attendence for us, I think that it is incorrect to place the LDS Sacrament on the level of 'blessing [yourselves] with holy water," or indeed as any lesser event. For us the Sacrament is incredibly important…we have the most important church meeting we go to based around it! For us it is a renewal of our baptismal covenants; when partaken of worthily, it is as effective at washing away sin as the original baptism is, and certainly as effective as you believe that confession + communion is.

Dianad,

Devoutly blessing oneself with Holy Water has the same aim, renewing one’s baptismal promises and remitting venial sins…thats why I compared it to the Mormon sacrament…The belief that they achieve basically the same thing…

I can understand that many people, including many Catholics, think its just some sort of mindless ritual Catholics do when entering a church…BUT it really does have a great significance sacramentally speaking…People just don’t realize it…

Holy water is what is used for baptism, it’s also believe to repel evil…

 

[mfbukowski]

Got a grudge going there bukowski? :knight2:

Not at all. It’s not personal, it’s just kind of like oil and water. I think neither of us listens well to the other.

He is doing what he believes is right, and so am I.