LDS and Catholic Differences

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mfbukowski said:
As an ex-Catholic, I know that you are right about this, but I think that actually thinking about them makes it more likely that they will be from my heart.

Many’s the time I remember rattling off an “Our Father” or an act of contrition just before dozing off at night and figuring I was “covered”, which perhaps I was- at least I remembered to pray and the intention of communication was there, but I have found that now when I actually have to think about the day’s events, and review them mentally and speak to my Father it is much more likely that I will try to have genuine communication.

It’s a question, to me, of which practice makes it more likely that you will have spiritual communication, and at least for me, I find that the odds are in my favor without memorized prayer.

It’s like physical training- which exercise will get you closer to your goal, and practice makes perfect.

Your experience could vary, especially coming from a “non-praying” background- it will give you some solid roots to grow from, but maybe you will find that you will no longer need the "crutch", and as far as I know, Catholics have no problem obviously with praying extemporaneously.
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Don’t you suppose we find this kind of thing “tiring” after awhile?
 
mfbukowski said:
But honestly, I think that board is a lot more tolerant to Catholics than this one is to Mormons.
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Very few things bother me in a religious discussion. For instance, I read at CARM sometimes and the anti-Catholicism there is pretty high, but it doesn’t bother me. When I read at MADB it is like they have made a piñata out of the Holy Trinity. The complete lack of respect for the Trinity bothers me, a lot. It isn’t anti-Catholic, it is anti-God, at a very wrong level. For all the anti-Catholicism at CARM at least we agree on who God is and there isn’t the disrespect there for God.

I notice when LDS come here they don’t show this aspect of their religious discussions.
 
wyp8riot said:
Another area where we disagree is in the area of a professional clergy. In the Catholic Church, as with most Christian denominations, being a preacher is a career.
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No it’s not. It’s a vocation. And they aren’t just “preachers” they do much more than preach. They are priests who serve Christ.

Also, the Catholic Church is not a just “another Christian denomination”; it’s pre-denominational.
The minister goes to school to learn how to be a preacher.
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No, that is just one of his duties. There is much more to the priesthood than that.
Another area of disagreement is in the area of baptism. Catholic believe that we are all born with the stain of original sin. Therefore, we must be baptized in order to be cleansed of Adams transgression. This leads to the practice of baptizing infants lest they should die and be condemned
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No. The fate of unbaptized infants is debated. Pope Benedict XVI says “we entrust them to the mercy of God”. The Church hasn’t dogmatically defined the fate of unbaptized infants. But we believe God will do what is just.
We believe that we are born innocent. Christ’s atonement paid the price of Adam’s transgression. It is only when we become mature enough to know good from evil that we become capable of committing sin and, therefore, it is only at that point that we need to be baptized."
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From a Catholic viewpoint, this is a very simplistic view of sin and concupiscence and atonement. The ancestral sin of Adam carries no personal guilt for us. The stain of Original Sin cannot be equated with the personal guilt of each descendant of the first human being, Adam.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
What a twist, according to your own private judgement against Catholics. :rolleyes:

And the prayer/song for Mormons is from the heart each time? There’s no difference and you’re now using a double standard. 🤷
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What are you talking about? Prayer song? You mean hymns?

If you can’t tell the difference between a hymn and a prayer, I don’t know what to say. Yes, hymns can BE like “prayers” but they are not a substitute for real prayer.
 
mfbukowski said:
I am taking you to mean “meditate” as in eastern meditation, but I suppose you are not.
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No, Eastern religions use the terms “meditation” and “contemplation” differently than Christians. You can read part of a chapter on Christian meditation for beginners here, if you like.
 
aspirant said:
There should not be any difference. Hymnody is a vital form of Jewish and Christian prayer.
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Exactly. Most non-Catholics who mock Catholic prayer do not understand the deep meditation/contemplation that accompanies prayers like the rosary, or the Eastern Catholic chokti, or any of a number of litanies or traditional Catholic prayers,most of which are some of the most beautifully worded and theologically profound.
 
aspirant said:
No, Eastern religions use the terms “meditation” and “contemplation” differently than Christians. You can read part of a chapter on Christian meditation for beginners here, if you like.
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Sounds like what I call “pondering”. I was thinking of something else.
 
mfbukowski said:
I don’t think it is good to meditate with mantras, though I do meditate. I am taking you to mean “meditate” as in eastern meditation, but I suppose you are not. I think you are using the word as a synonymous with “ponder” or “deeply think about” but sometimes it is hard to draw the line.

I recall as a kid responding to litanies which I found very hypnotic. I think that is not a good thing; sometimes it felt like I was being assimilated into the Borg or something.

Whatever floats your boat I guess.
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Of course I am not talking about meditation in the “eastern” sense. I am talking about focusing intensley on various aspects of Christ’s life and finding deeper meaning. For instance, when Christ received the crown of thorns. From a purely literal standpoint, ok they pounded a crown of thorns into His head and I’ll bet it really hurt. From a moral standpoint I begin to realize that my sin caused this to happen. What humility our God, the true King has to accept this crown of thorns. Does this teach me anything about my own life, how I should live?

I understand that some types of prayer may be hard to understand, all I am saying is that no one should judge the sincerity of the one praying, nor the efficacy of those prayers. The rosary for instance, becomes so beautiful to those who pray it because it draws us closer to God and gives our faith deep meaning if done properly. For those who are only repeating words for the sake of repeating words I would say it is next to useless. But that is not what occurs with those who pray it on a regular basis. If we were just repeating words, I doubt anyone could stomach it for very long and the practice would have died out before it got started. As I said before “those who can’t hear the music think the dancer is daft”.
 
Matariel said:
Exactly. Most non-Catholics who mock Catholic prayer do not understand the deep meditation/contemplation that accompanies prayers like the rosary, or the Eastern Catholic chokti, or any of a number of litanies or traditional Catholic prayers,most of which are some of the most beautifully worded and theologically profound.
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We have a Jewish man who will be baptized at the Easter Vigil and working with him as has been a joy for our RCIA team.

It has driven home how the early Christians were Jewish and didn’t forsake their Jewish traditions when they became Christians. How so much of what we have as Catholics is deeply rooted in Christ’s own religious traditions. He never came to obliterate Judaism, just fulfill it and move it forward.

🙂
 
mfbukowski said:
Just beautiful! No question, I love it.

But it’s not from me, it’s not my words. I wish I could think of things that way, but it’s not from me.

I find that when I pray, I am mostly saying “HELP”!
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But if you listened to other’s prayers, such as St. Francis, it might help you to pray differently. Not just for help, but in praise and blessing and thanks. So many prayers that have been written down by Catholics in the past are amazingly powerful, and when I read them and learn them by heart, they make me understand how better to be a faithful and a good Christian. I am not as learned or spiritual as many of the people who made up the prayers, that is why they are so helpful to my faith.
 
mfbukowski said:
The Lord’s prayer is a FORMULA for prayer.

Start by addressing the father

Thank him for our lives and what we have

Ask for what you need

Close in his name.

Thank you for your post

Thank you for your post

Thank you for your post

Thank you for your post

Thank you for your post

Thank you for your post

Thank you for your post

Thank you for your post

Thank you for your post

Thank you for your post

Thank you for your post

Thank you for your post

Thank you for your post

Thank you for your post

Thank you for your post

Thank you for your post

Thank you for your post

Thank you for your post

Does that make you feel like I am sincere?
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Uhm, no… looks like you are making fun of someone or think they’re having problems understanding a simple sentence.
(Sorry if that was rough, but that is my opinion. Please do forgive me if that was hurtful to you.)

In Him,
Janet
 
Prague said:
Thank you for the information provided on the three heavens.
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There is a much simpler explanation of the “third heaven” in 2 Cor 12:2. Ancient Semitics viewed the heavens (the sky) as being three-fold (as we do today)::
  1. The heavens where the clouds float and the birds fly (the atmosphere).
  2. The heavens beyond that, where the sun and the stars travel (space).
  3. The heavens where God lives, which is beyond the sun, moon and stars (heaven).
So Saint Paul was saying that the man having the vision was caught up to the place where God dwells - the third heaven.

It has nothing to do with different levels of Heaven, no matter what the Muslims and the Mormons teach.

Paul (a former Mormon, now happily Catholic)
 
mfbukowski,

Thanks,

do you consider confession as an ordinance? I understand, that in general, LDS practice confessing to another *only *in rare occasions
… for serious transgressions such as violations of the law of chastity, … The confessor will keep your confession confidential and help you throughout the process of repentance. Be completely honest with them. If you partially confess, mentioning only lesser mistakes, you will not be able to resolve a more serious, undisclosed transgression. The sooner you begin this process, the sooner you will find the peace and joy that come with the miracle of forgiveness. —TRUE TO THE FAITH - A GOSPEL REFERENCE
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This almost could have come from a Catholic Confession Guide

-kc
mfbukowski said:
Baptisms, confirmations, endowments, eternal marriages, and sealings of couples and of families, ordinations, administering to the sick, and some others which are included in these- the endowment is a generalized term which actually describes a set of “sub-ordinances”.
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PaulDupre said:
There is a much simpler explanation of the “third heaven” in 2 Cor 12:2. Ancient Semitics viewed the heavens (the sky) as being three-fold (as we do today)::
  1. The heavens where the clouds float and the birds fly (the atmosphere).
  2. The heavens beyond that, where the sun and the stars travel (space).
  3. The heavens where God lives, which is beyond the sun, moon and stars (heaven).
So Saint Paul was saying that the man having the vision was caught up to the place where God dwells - the third heaven.

It has nothing to do with different levels of Heaven, no matter what the Muslims and the Mormons teach.

Paul (a former Mormon, now happily Catholic)
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So you are saying that Paul was erroneously teaching science?

On what basis do you think the bible is about science? And if God is everywhere how can he live in any “place”?

That would mean that God lives in outer space? Or is the bible wrong about that?
 
mfbukowski said:
So you are saying that Paul was erroneously teaching science?

On what basis do you think the bible is about science? And if God is everywhere how can he live in any “place”?

That would mean that God lives in outer space? Or is the bible wrong about that?
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Do you not see that the third heaven is an expression that refers to the ‘Heaven’ beyond the clouds and beyond the stars, where God dwells in an allegorical sense. It’s not science. It certainly is in no way support for the LDS doctrine of heaven.

Peace,
Robert
 
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