LDS and Catholic Theological Differences - The Family

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ParkerD;6347247]Jay53,
Neither my wife nor I have the belief of “procreating” spirit children if by that you mean birthing a spirit child from the womb of the woman during the eternities to come. But the idea and purposefulness of nurturing a spirit child in his or her development, in a motherly way for her, and guiding that spirit child’s growth in knowledge with love and encouragement as a role I can have, is very logical and meaningful. Doing this as an eternally married husband and wife with unique characteristics but a joint oneness of purpose and spiritual intimacy, is a completely logical follow-up from having been a parent on this earth who was in partnership with God in bringing and nurturing children within the world God created for all of us as His spirit offspring.
How does this fit with the belief in “eternal increase”? And if you and your wife didn’t create this “spirit child” then who did? And would these spirit children still worship God or would they then see you and your wife as “god”? :confused:
 
Then all Christians, Muslims, and any other faiths that believe in the Resurrection, (although Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God, so I’m not sure how that factors in) would experience this “eternal marriage”. :confused: This would also then make the “sealing” ordinance in Mormon temples superfluous. For your interpretation to hold, you have to add in all the other falsehoods that Jesus never taught, i.e. “sealing”, 3 different heavens, procreating spirit children, etc. You have to add in the “other” gospel which we were warned about.

Hope you have a great day! 🙂
Jay53,
It is not “another gospel”. As I had noted previously, Matthew 18:19 refers to “any thing that they shall ask”, which follows the verse that describes the keys of sealing being given to the apostles. Also, Adam and Eve had a covenant marriage performed by God Himself, and Jesus referred to that marriage as the prototype of marriage for humankind.

The keys of sealing would need to be a part of a covenant eternal marriage, so the notion that any marriage of any believer in the resurrection becomes a covenant eternal marriage, is simply wrong. It would need to be specifically wanted, and specifically sought out, with the understanding that the authority of the keys were present with the apostolic power given by Christ.

Christ answered the Sadducees’ question, not a question from a Catholic or a Muslim or a Protestant. He answered a different question than the one that seems to be on your mind.

As I have also noted, Christ taught certain things in a way that “seeing, they would see not.” This means that there will be those who dismiss and say “no way”, and this is part of the plan offered by Christ so that total free choice is preserved among humankind, including a progression toward additional choices as one gains more understanding. The giver of the understanding is Christ and the Holy Spirit, not man and not traditions of man nor the wisdom of man.

I’ll add another comment later on. Have a great evening.
 
Jay53,
It is not “another gospel”. As I had noted previously, Matthew 18:19 refers to “any thing that they shall ask”, which follows the verse that describes the keys of sealing being given to the apostles. Also, Adam and Eve had a covenant marriage performed by God Himself, and Jesus referred to that marriage as the prototype of marriage for humankind.

The keys of sealing would need to be a part of a covenant eternal marriage, so the notion that any marriage of any believer in the resurrection becomes a covenant eternal marriage, is simply wrong. It would need to be specifically wanted, and specifically sought out, with the understanding that the authority of the keys were present with the apostolic power given by Christ.

Christ answered the Sadducees’ question, not a question from a Catholic or a Muslim or a Protestant. He answered a different question than the one that seems to be on your mind.

As I have also noted, Christ taught certain things in a way that “seeing, they would see not.” This means that there will be those who dismiss and say “no way”, and this is part of the plan offered by Christ so that total free choice is preserved among humankind, including a progression toward additional choices as one gains more understanding. The giver of the understanding is Christ and the Holy Spirit, not man and not traditions of man nor the wisdom of man.

I’ll add another comment later on. Have a great evening.
And I also pointed out that Matthew 18:18 does not have anything to do with marriage. It deals with sin and confession and the authority that priests have to forgive sins through the sacrament of Reconciliation. There are no “keys of sealing” with regard to marriage. Unless you can show me where any of the Apostles or early Christians believed or practiced this.
 
As I have also noted, Christ taught certain things in a way that “seeing, they would see not.” This means that there will be those who dismiss and say “no way”, and this is part of the plan offered by Christ so that total free choice is preserved among humankind, including a progression toward additional choices as one gains more understanding. The giver of the understanding is Christ and the Holy Spirit, not man and not traditions of man nor the wisdom of man.
I would agree with this. A perfect example is the Eucharist. Christ gave us His Body and Blood, yet many of his disciples walked away then and walk away now because they do not believe or understand His words. 😦

Your last sentence is particularly poignant. God is the Giver of all understanding - certainly not Joseph Smith and his twisted interpretations.

Have a great night! 🙂
 
Christ is the “Father” of the earth by being the Creator of the earth, and also the “Father” of our spiritual rebirth by being the Redeemer and our Advocate with Heavenly Father–so the use of a word describing parenthood can mean something spiritually that it does not mean in a mortal, temporal way, and it has to do with bringing forth growth and spiritual development.
 
And I also pointed out that Matthew 18:18 does not have anything to do with marriage. It deals with sin and confession and the authority that priests have to forgive sins through the sacrament of Reconciliation. There are no “keys of sealing” with regard to marriage. Unless you can show me where any of the Apostles or early Christians believed or practiced this.
Jay53,
Based on your logic about Matthew 18:18, I have to question why in the world any Catholic priesthood holder at all thinks they have authority to perform a marriage sanctioned by God, if they don’t think they have the keys to do it? This would need to be answered before beginning to understand an answer to your last sentence here.
 
How does this fit with the belief in “eternal increase”? And if you and your wife didn’t create this “spirit child” then who did? And would these spirit children still worship God or would they then see you and your wife as “god”? :confused:
Jay53,
You earlier used the word “procreate”, and I looked that up in a dictionary and it led to a general definition of “generate” that includes “to originate by a vital process.” I can go with that understanding. That is the kind of process that could describe the bringing forth of a spirit child. It does not mean “create out of nothing”, and it does not mean “reproduce by the uniting of a sperm cell and an egg cell.” It means “originate by a vital process” such that a spirit child comes forth whereas before such an origination, there was an intelligence. The intelligence comes into a more advanced state of being that is a spirit.

We don’t know “how” this is done. We know that a mother nurtures and a father leads and guides, but as to the mechanism of bringing forth a spirit, we do not know what that mechanism is.

Those spirit children will still worship God, Whom we will all still worship. Being a “god” does not mean being “worshiped”–it means being a “ruler” (Rev. 2:27), one who sits with Christ on a throne (Rev. 3:21), one who is a “son of God” and “inherits all things” (Rev. 21:7). All the sons of God will still worship God, forever and ever.
 
Jay53,
Based on your logic about Matthew 18:18, I have to question why in the world any Catholic priesthood holder at all thinks they have authority to perform a marriage sanctioned by God, if they don’t think they have the keys to do it? This would need to be answered before beginning to understand an answer to your last sentence here.
I believe someone explained that the Sacrament of marriage is administered by the bride and groom.
 
I believe someone explained that the Sacrament of marriage is administered by the bride and groom.
Zaffiroborant,
I must have missed that post, nor do I understand what it means. Does it mean two Catholics, an unmarried male and female, can administer their own marriage and do it anywhere on earth in the presence of anyone or no one and that marriage is sanctioned by God by their having said certain words and then, according to one recent thread, later consummating their marriage so it becomes valid? (I assume in some countries they would think they need a marriage license also, but aside from that aspect.)
 
Zaffiroborant,
I must have missed that post, nor do I understand what it means. Does it mean two Catholics, an unmarried male and female, can administer their own marriage and do it anywhere on earth in the presence of anyone or no one and that marriage is sanctioned by God by their having said certain words and then, according to one recent thread, later consummating their marriage so it becomes valid? (I assume in some countries they would think they need a marriage license also, but aside from that aspect.)
No, of course there are “rules” about it but when it comes down to it the priest does not marry the couple they marry each other. By the way that last sentence strikes me as “presentism” something I’ve only recently heard of and that was from LDS posters at MAD.
 
Tmaque,
I agree that Christ taught that there is no marriage in heaven for unbelieving Sadducees. “The Sadducees (who did not believe in the resurrection)” are “they” to whom Christ was referring when in His language He used the understood subject from their question and answered their question with a sentence referencing the question’s subject. This is basic grammar. So indeed, to preach anything about a generalization about marriage in heaven for everyone on earth using Matthew 22:30 as the source text, is to preach an “other gospel” than the one Christ taught. To preach any other doctrine about marriage than the doctrine “What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder” is to preach an “other gospel” than the one Christ taught.

What a beautiful day it was today.👍
What??? Does anyone else find this argument bizarre? You’re arguing that Christ was only talking about the Saducees not marrying in heaven, thus leaving the possibility open to others? That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. Let’s keep this simple and read the text for what it really says without forcing it to mean something it clearly does not in order to fit a particular theology. Nobody reading this passage is going to get the idea that Christ is somehow trying to say that the Saducees don’t have celestial marriage but others do. This passage has nothing to do with eternal marriage. The Saducees are trying to trap Christ about the very idea of resurrection and eternal life. They think they can trip Him by posing a dilemma for eternal life. Christ settles it quite easily. Marriage does not exist in heaven, therefore there is no dilemma. You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to force this passage to uphold the LDS idea of celestial marriage.

Now the more common argument LDS make about this passage (yours is one I never heard before) is that when Jesus says “for in heaven they neither marry nor are given in marriage,” He is saying that once you’re in heaven, no marriages will be performed, so that’s why celestial marriage must be performed on earth in order that it will continue into heaven, i.e., it has to be done here because it won’t be done there. That argument also has no basis from the biblical text without first adding additional LDS scripture, which we Catholics obviously reject outright as false anyway.

The Catholic idea of eternal family is so much simpler and has none of the dilemmas created by the LDS belief. In reality, all human beings are from one family – God’s family. He created us. And to Him we ultimately return. Our earthly parents didn’t create us. God did. Our earthly parents are here to raise us on earth, but once we get to heaven, we are all brothers and sisters of the same eternal Father, who created us without the help of some mysterious, unnamed, unkown female goddess spouse. God is not married. We return to THE ONE ETERNAL FAMILY – God’s family, where every human being now resurrected into heaven is our brother and sister in Christ. There are no eternal “parents” as described in LDS theology. God is not a resurrected man. God does not have a god above Him as LDS theology teaches. The dilemmas created by the LDS belief in eternal marriage are so numerous it would take pages and pages to go through. Suffice it to say that Catholic belief in this area is far simpler and presents none of the LDS problems.

Let’s also not forget that Christ Himself is not married. If any LDS wants to make the arugment that Christ is married, I would love to hear it, but maybe we should just leave it to Dan Brown.
 
What??? Does anyone else find this argument bizarre? You’re arguing that Christ was only talking about the Saducees not marrying in heaven, thus leaving the possibility open to others? That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. Let’s keep this simple and read the text for what it really says without forcing it to mean something it clearly does not in order to fit a particular theology. Nobody reading this passage is going to get the idea that Christ is somehow trying to say that the Saducees don’t have celestial marriage but others do. This passage has nothing to do with eternal marriage. The Saducees are trying to trap Christ about the very idea of resurrection and eternal life. They think they can trip Him by posing a dilemma for eternal life. Christ settles it quite easily. Marriage does not exist in heaven, therefore there is no dilemma. You have to do some serious mental gymnastics to force this passage to uphold the LDS idea of celestial marriage.

…The dilemmas created by the LDS belief in eternal marriage are so numerous it would take pages and pages to go through. Suffice it to say that Catholic belief in this area is far simpler and presents none of the LDS problems.

Let’s also not forget that Christ Himself is not married. If any LDS wants to make the arugment that Christ is married, I would love to hear it, but maybe we should just leave it to Dan Brown.
Chris-WA,
The conversation has gone into depth about the seven Sadducees brothers in the hypothetical example given by the Sadducees several times on other threads, so this thread reflects a continuation of one of those conversations. Here is what I had written on an earlier thread about the text in Matthew 22:23-33:

"I want to let anyone reading know that I certainly believe Jesus and have an understanding of His teachings, including being able to diagram a fairly simple paragraph in which the Sadducees introduced a subject to Him, and He used His language with the understood subject being built into the verb as He described the condition in the resurrection (being like angels) of the seven hypothetical Sadducees brothers whom the Sadducees asking the question were referring to with their question.

One diagrams such a paragraph by identifying the subject and thus being able to match that understood subject when a verb is used that has an understood subject, such as the verb “are neither married nor are given in marriage”. In English, the understood subject is rendered to the word “they”, but that is not so in some languages such as the original language of the text. The word “they” in English for that verse, refers directly back to the subject that was introduced by the Sadducees’ question–which subject is the seven Sadducees brothers who didn’t believe in the resurrection, married the same woman after each one died successively, and found themselves being resurrected after all (much to their surprise, of course, since they taught and believed there would be no resurrection)."

The above is not “mental gymnastics”. It is taking grammar and using it to understand the use of an understood subject, “they”.

The Sadducees used their hypothetical example because they thought it would “trap” Jesus because of an existent belief that marriage continues after the resurrection, and they wanted to demonstrate using the Mosaic law, that Moses must not have believed in the resurrection or the law would not have constructed the idea of a brother raising up seed unto his dead brother by marrying a woman whose husband had died.

Jesus used the hypothetical example to specifically answer the Sadducees’ question. Their question had been specific, about “whose wife will she be?” His answer was that all the dead brothers (“they” in English, but an understood subject that is part of the verb conjugation in the original textual language) “neither marry, nor are given in marriage…”

Jesus was not saying anything about other people besides the seven hypothetical Sadducees brothers and their hypothetical wife, but it can be concluded that anyone else who has the qualities of the Sadducees (not believing in Christ, not believing in the resurrection, not believing in eternal covenants, not believing in eternal marriage) will receive a resurrection that is similar to the Sadducees–but this has nothing to do with a believer who is willing and desirous of entering into the eternal marriage covenant. Jesus’ statement was specific, not a generalization about all humankind, at all.

Catholics have their belief about marriage, which is their choice, but Jesus’ teaching about marriage for covenant believers is His citation about the prototypical covenant marriage of Adam and Eve, who were married by God Himself performing the marriage ceremony, and God is an eternal Being and Jesus taught that a covenant marriage should not be “put asunder” by man. This is what Jesus taught about covenant marriages.

I have also previously noted on other threads that Christ would logically not marry because He knew perfectly well that He was going to be killed at a young age, and would logically not bring a wife and children into the predicament of being a young widow or fatherless. Nor did He need marriage to grow in understanding or compassion or awareness–unlike that humankind are given marriage with a directly stated result of being an “help meet” for the man and the woman to grow in the understanding by the many positive benefits of marriage (including having and raising children) compared with being single.

Have a good day.
 
I really like how our international family, the Church, is so similar to a tribal family in non-industrial Vietnamese village. In say a village of 300 people, everyone is considered family. We live together, we build together, and we share heartaches and triumphs with each other. Even if we are not blood related, we are family in our shared communal life.

In the village are many dynamics including good and bad. There are bad people in the village which we try to help and change or avoid if need be. And sometimes we would wonder why those bad guys don’t leave already and grow up! Growing up here means learning how to treat each other as family and understanding communal responsibility and trust. At the same time there are wonderful people in the village that we can count on.

Kids of the same age are brothers and sisters (unless they are married to each other). Older kids are our older brothers and sisters. All the uncles and aunts of the village are each other’s uncles and aunts. We have a natural family within the village but the village is also a family. We have a village elder that acts as the father of the village and the older ladies as our mothers and grandmothers. It’s simple and has great opportunities to grow with each other in relationship.

This sounds so much like the Church I grew up in. Our older brothers and sisters have gone before us. We of this life time are siblings to one another. We have the mother Church and we have Mary as our mother. We also have patron saints to watch over us. We have a Holy Father that acts as our village elder. We have bishops and priests, who as our pastors, are like the village leaders. We have bad Catholics and good Catholics. We have some that we wonder why they even claim to be Catholic and we have some that we really admire and want to be like.

The Church as a family is really beautiful. And the natural family exists within the Church. In fact, while we talk about the Church being built from stones – its members, the Church stones form walls and foundations – the families. At the same time the Church family and the natural family reflect each other and is there for each other.
 
Pope Benedict:
God is Trinity", he added. “He is communion of love, and the family - with all the difference that exists between the Mystery of God and His human creature - is an expression thereof which reflects the unfathomable mystery of God-Love. … The human family is, in a certain sense, the icon of the Trinity because of the love between its members and the fruitfulness of that love”.

The LDS idea of “families forever”, only works if all family members make it to the Celestial kingdom. The Catholic(and true) teaching is that everyone in heaven is and will be a family in every sense of the word.
That’s good

When I started to see this is when I realized that God loves all of his creation equally. He loves each and every one of us the same, one not being more special than the other. Then I was able to understand the love I have been gifted from God, that is should be the same for others in my life, I should look at “all” as being loved by God, not just my own Children and my own wife. That we are learning through the family unite the love that is Trinity itself. Because Gods love is not measured in portions, and because without God there would be no love, not even darkness would exist.

Love your enemies begins to make sense when you can understand the love that God has for them, you can look over their shoulder and see the one who spins us all, you can look past the sins of others and still love them in Christ. Something to ponder as to how we will love in heaven.

We are on a journey to loving ‘all’ the way God loves all of us. if you love your Child could you imagine loving all children the same? Would that somehow lesson the love for your one child?

Heaven is not like the earths accept that it has love in Common. Distorted here because of the fall, the desire to posses it as if it were our own. Its not ours to posses as we have no love in us, accept the love of Christ Jesus, rather it is the great gift to us from love itself to be shared, to be learned to be with forever if one chooses it. It is Jesus Himself. You have to start with Him, He has to be at the center, without Him love is in vain, its not real, make believe, distorted, false, pride, ego, self-serving, limited, transactions

So Catholics believe in one very large family in Heaven, where we will all be adopted sons and daughters, all in the embrace of our One Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. God will be our God and we will be His children. Outside of the One true God there is nothing, there is nothing before Him or after Him, He is the Alpha and the Omega.
When you get this you also get a sigh of relief. You just surrender to it, give thanks and praise that you are a gift to Jesus from God, a gift of Gods Love.

In Christ
Rich

www.utahmission.com
www.chooseyourcross.com
 
Jay53,
Based on your logic about Matthew 18:18, I have to question why in the world any Catholic priesthood holder at all thinks they have authority to perform a marriage sanctioned by God, if they don’t think they have the keys to do it? This would need to be answered before beginning to understand an answer to your last sentence here.
I don’t understand your question. :confused: Or perhaps you have misunderstandings about the sacrament of matrimony in the Church? :confused:

Maybe this will help:
1621 In the Latin Rite the celebration of marriage between two Catholic faithful normally takes place during Holy Mass, because of the connection of all the sacraments with the Paschal mystery of Christ.120 In the Eucharist the memorial of the New Covenant is realized, the New Covenant in which Christ has united himself for ever to the Church, his beloved bride for whom he gave himself up.121 It is therefore fitting that the spouses should seal their consent to give themselves to each other through the offering of their own lives by uniting it to the offering of Christ for his Church made present in the Eucharistic sacrifice, and by receiving the Eucharist so that, communicating in the same Body and the same Blood of Christ, they may form but “one body” in Christ.122
1622 "Inasmuch as it is a sacramental action of sanctification, the liturgical celebration of marriage . . . must be, per se, valid, worthy, and fruitful."123 It is therefore appropriate for the bride and groom to prepare themselves for the celebration of their marriage by receiving the sacrament of penance.
1623 According to Latin tradition, the spouses, as ministers of Christ’s grace, mutually confer upon each other the sacrament of Matrimony by expressing their consent before the Church. In the tradition of the Eastern churches, the priests (bishops or presbyters) are witnesses to the mutual consent of the spouses,NT1 but for the validity of the sacrament their blessing is also necessary.NT2
1630 The priest (or deacon) who assists at the celebration of a marriage receives the consent of the spouses in the name of the Church and gives the blessing of the Church. The presence of the Church’s minister (and also of the witnesses) visibly expresses the fact that marriage is an ecclesial reality. vatican.va/archive/catechism/p2s2c3a7.htm
I honestly just don’t understand your question. Perhaps after reading the above quotes and/or the link you could rephrase it or explain it better. ???
 
I don’t understand your question. :confused: Or perhaps you have misunderstandings about the sacrament of matrimony in the Church? :confused:

I honestly just don’t understand your question. Perhaps after reading the above quotes and/or the link you could rephrase it or explain it better. ???
Jay53,
Now that I have read those, I can see why we have a difference in a view of the marriage covenant. In the LDS church, the only priesthood holders who can act in behalf of God as a couple accepts their marriage covenant, are those who have the keys by being ordained by the prophet or the apostles, who are called to a specific calling as a “temple sealer.” (The apostles also use the keys they have been given to do this.) When Jesus said “what God hath joined together”, then I had assumed that Catholics would have taken that teaching and placed the priest in the position of acting in behalf of God to at least sanctify the marriage rite and say in effect that it had God’s blessing. (I’m not sure if I’m understanding that a priest does that as they act as a witness to a couple getting married in the Catholic church.)

I guess marriage is viewed in a significantly different way for Catholics even in the aspect of a covenant on earth, let alone a covenant that transcends death.

Again, for the LDS it is as though God is the one looking at the couple in their eyes and asking if they are making a marriage covenant “for time and for all eternity”. It is truly a case where “God hath joined together.”
 
Jay53,
Now that I have read those, I can see why we have a difference in a view of the marriage covenant. In the LDS church, the only priesthood holders who can act in behalf of God as a couple accepts their marriage covenant, are those who have the keys by being ordained by the prophet or the apostles, who are called to a specific calling as a “temple sealer.” (The apostles also use the keys they have been given to do this.) When Jesus said “what God hath joined together”, then I had assumed that Catholics would have taken that teaching and placed the priest in the position of acting in behalf of God to at least sanctify the marriage rite and say in effect that it had God’s blessing. (I’m not sure if I’m understanding that a priest does that as they act as a witness to a couple getting married in the Catholic church.)

I guess marriage is viewed in a significantly different way for Catholics even in the aspect of a covenant on earth, let alone a covenant that transcends death.

Again, for the LDS it is as though God is the one looking at the couple in their eyes and asking if they are making a marriage covenant “for time and for all eternity”. It is truly a case where “God hath joined together.”
And somehow you got the idea from the quotes and the link that God is not a part of the sacrament for Catholics and that somehow God has not joined together the spouses in a Catholic marriage? :hypno: I think you should read that again - perhaps the whole link. Maybe the parts I quoted weren’t enough. 🤷

(I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that God was present at my wedding and that He joined my husband and I together. 🙂 )

Hope you have a good night! 🙂
 
And somehow you got the idea from the quotes and the link that God is not a part of the sacrament for Catholics and that somehow God has not joined together the spouses in a Catholic marriage? :hypno: I think you should read that again - perhaps the whole link. Maybe the parts I quoted weren’t enough. 🤷

(I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that God was present at my wedding and that He joined my husband and I together. 🙂 )

Hope you have a good night! 🙂
Jay53,
I hope you have a good night also. I do think “God was present” at your wedding, and I think that belief answers your question about whether the early church had a belief that marriages were done with God’s blessing and with eternity in mind. I think it can be readily seen by both a study of the Jewish rites of marriage and a study of the Catholic marriage rite, that God is assumed to be “present” and be a “part” of the marriage. So since God is an eternal Being, and Jesus said “God hath joined together”, it really means that God is doing the joining in a covenant marriage, whenever the authority has truly been given by God. Such a marriage, joined by God, would be eternal because God is eternal.

I appreciate your kind reply here, as at other times. Thanks.
 
Jay53,
I hope you have a good night also. I do think “God was present” at your wedding, and I think that belief answers your question about whether the early church had a belief that marriages were done with God’s blessing and with eternity in mind. I think it can be readily seen by both a study of the Jewish rites of marriage and a study of the Catholic marriage rite, that God is assumed to be “present” and be a “part” of the marriage. So since God is an eternal Being, and Jesus said “God hath joined together”, it really means that God is doing the joining in a covenant marriage, whenever the authority has truly been given by God. Such a marriage, joined by God, would be eternal because God is eternal.

I appreciate your kind reply here, as at other times. Thanks.
Good Morning, Parker

I’m still not seeing the extension from the beliefs of the early church about the sacrament into beliefs about celestial marriage as in Mormon doctrine. As I said before, if you want to believe that your marriage is eternal is one thing, but adding in that you have to be married to be in Heaven with God, eternal increase, ruling over your own world etc, that’s a whole 'nother ball of wax. 😉 I have not seen any evidence of any of these beliefs with the Apostles or any of their successors.
 
(I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that God was present at my wedding and that He joined my husband and I together. 🙂 )
Jay53,
I am getting the impression this morning that I ought to go ahead and explain a difference that can at least be imagined, if not perceived, in the two ways of thinking about the marriage covenant–that God and the husband and wife are involved jointly in the marriage, but on the one hand it is only “until death do you part” whereas on the other hand it is “for time and for all eternity.”

You may have heard of the book that came out many years ago, Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus. I’m not an expert on the subject by any means, but a fairly simple concept to grasp is that women come into marriage thinking how wonderful it will be and then soon find that there are things about their husband they would like to “help him see” so he can change them and make the marriage better. This is fine. It goes right along with what Adam was told about Eve–that she would be an “help meet” for him. “Help meet” his potential, for one thing! Help him realize that he is not the be-all and the end-all with what he knows about the world, and that he needs in a very real way his wife, a woman of tenderness and sympathy and empathy and compassion and gentleness and a perspective he completely lacks. Then, he gets to figure out how to meet her needs and to change himself so that he can meet her needs better.

Meanwhile, the man had entered into the marriage originally thinking (according to Mars-Venus) that she was perfect, just what he needed, and that she ought to stay exactly as she was when they dated. Yet here she comes into marriage and starts to change! He gets to figure out that change is a part of the “ball-game”. Change leads to repentance, leads to being a better person, a more compassionate and understanding and loving person, a person closer to Christ and closer to being like Christ.

In the eternal marriage covenant, that couple realizes that even though they have differences, they might as well not just “set the differences aside” and endure patiently until the next life, when they won’t have to “put up” with the spouse who wasn’t willing to change. They get to realize they ought to figure out how to meet each other’s needs, and do it today and tomorrow and next week as best they can, with Christ’s help and with each other’s patience along the way. Where does this kind of situation end up? With two people who have loved each other and supported each other through thick and thin, and done it with a feeling of oneness whereby they feel mutually supported and can see in very deed that their marriage was indeed “ordained of God” and placed them in a situation to progress in learning to be like Christ far faster than had they just “gone it alone” in the world.

Have a wonderful day. You have my permission to share the above with your husband.🙂
 
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