LDS and "Heavenly Father"

[PaulDupre1]

Same for me, until I prayed in our Blessed Sacrament chapel.

The Father reveals the Son, just as the Son reveals the Father.

Don’t let old Mormon stuff keep you from Our Father.

It doesn’t keep me from praying to God Our Father “through Christ Our Lord”, as we do at mass. The mass is my template for prayer.

I just need to be careful of things that remind me of Mormonism. I am sometimes dismayed that it still hurts after 28 years; but then again, I still have LDS family members who treat me as an outcast because I am an apostate - a “son of perdition”. So the wounds never quite get the time to heal between emotional beatings from my LDS sibs and occasionally from their TBM children.

Interesting that the less active those nieces and nephews are in “the church”, the more kind they are to me.

At my Catholic father’s funeral several years ago, my LDS brother never missed an opportunity to make fun of the funeral mass, the priest, the “vain and repetitious” prayers at the graveside and Catholicism in general, spouting the kind of distortions and untruths that you usually hear from Mormons, SDAs and JWs.

My LDS sister’s only comment was “at least they didn’t make us say the rosary!”.

It was a long weekend.

With all the LDS misconceptions my sibs have about Catholicism, it is hard to believe that they grew up with very kind and devout Catholic parents and attended Catholic schools from Grade 1 through High School.

What is it that Mormonism does to people to make them so ignorant and hateful? My brother was always a bit of a jerk, but my sister was among the kindest and most considerate people I had ever known - until she became a Mormon; then it was like she was possessed by some dark thing that turned her into what she is today.

I wasn’t too surprised that all of my “friends” turned on me when I left the LDS church - I had been LDS long enough to be prepared for that. But what really crushed me is the treatment I get from my own family members - those who have known me from childhood. I thought they loved me, but I discovered that LDS love is highly conditional, and I don’t meet their conditions.

BTW, I live a very moral and upright life. They have no reason to treat me this way.

So if I occasionally seem bitter (and I’m sure I do), please know that I come by it honestly.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[RebeccaJ]

It doesn’t keep me from praying to God Our Father “through Christ Our Lord”, as we do at mass. The mass is my template for prayer.

I just need to be careful of things that remind me of Mormonism. I am sometimes dismayed that it still hurts after 28 years; but then again, I still have LDS family members who treat me as an outcast because I am an apostate - a “son of perdition”. So the wounds never quite get the time to heal between emotional beatings from my LDS sibs and occasionally from their TBM children.

Interesting that the less active those nieces and nephews are in “the church”, the more kind they are to me.

At my Catholic father’s funeral several years ago, my LDS brother never missed an opportunity to make fun of the funeral mass, the priest, the “vain and repetitious” prayers at the graveside and Catholicism in general, spouting the kind of distortions and untruths that you usually hear from Mormons, SDAs and JWs.

My LDS sister’s only comment was “at least they didn’t make us say the rosary!”.

It was a long weekend.

With all the LDS misconceptions my sibs have about Catholicism, it is hard to believe that they grew up with very kind and devout Catholic parents and attended Catholic schools from Grade 1 through High School.

What is it that Mormonism does to people to make them so ignorant and hateful? My brother was always a bit of a jerk, but my sister was among the kindest and most considerate people I had ever known - until she became a Mormon; then it was like she was possessed by some dark thing that turned her into what she is today.

I wasn’t too surprised that all of my “friends” turned on me when I left the LDS church - I had been LDS long enough to be prepared for that. But what really crushed me is the treatment I get from my own family members - those who have known me from childhood. I thought they loved me, but I discovered that LDS love is highly conditional, and I don’t meet their conditions.

BTW, I live a very moral and upright life. They have no reason to treat me this way.

So if I occasionally seem bitter (and I’m sure I do), please know that I come by it honestly.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

It is difficult at times, but as time goes by and I immerse myself in my Catholic faith, I find I have long periods of time where I don’t bring to mind anything of my Mormon past. So much of it is irrelevant.

I avoid all religious dialogue with Mormon relatives. When they fire off potshots, I leave. There are circumstances where leaving is not possible, so there is that. Sticking it out and thanking God when whatever event it is, ends.

 

[debbie_h]

I did! And it was heavenly! So grateful to be able to share in the Eucharist now.

Congratulations & welcome to our family

 

[debbie_h]

This has actually been a big struggle for me since leaving the LDS church for Catholicism. I feel like I’m caught in between - like I’m trying too hard when praying differently than LDS but feel like I can’t let go when I trend towards the standard LDS prayer.

What’s really awkward for me is when I’m asked to pray at a family function when all know that I’ve taken my family out of the LDS church (although I don’t know if they know I was recently baptized Catholic). I feel like a phony when I give the “traditional” LDS prayer.

I’ve never questioned it before, but does anyone know why the LDS pray with folded arms?
I come from TBM parents & it wasn’t an easy road to become Catholic. It’s hard to shake off the programmed LDS mannerisms & lingo…
Good thing is, in my house I teach my kids the catholic prayers & children’s songs (a DVD series called “brother Francis” is excellent), when they go to my parents house & proudly cross themselves & sing the “our father”, it sure irritates my parents.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I’ve never questioned it before, but does anyone know why the LDS pray with folded arms?
I come from TBM parents & it wasn’t an easy road to become Catholic. It’s hard to shake off the programmed LDS mannerisms & lingo…
Good thing is, in my house I teach my kids the catholic prayers & children’s songs (a DVD series called “brother Francis” is excellent), when they go to my parents house & proudly cross themselves & sing the “our father”, it sure irritates my parents.

There was once a long thread on LDS arm folding. The consensus was, LDS children are taught to fold their arms in an effort to keep them reverent, and the habit sticks into adulthood. The same for closing your eyes while praying. No peeking!

I once had a LDS member tell me the custom came from Quaker converts, of which there were many in an early period of the LDS Church. I haven’t seen the evidence presented for this idea.

 

[NeuroTypical]

At my Catholic father’s funeral several years ago, my LDS brother never missed an opportunity to make fun of the funeral mass, the priest, the “vain and repetitious” prayers at the graveside and Catholicism in general, spouting the kind of distortions and untruths that you usually hear from Mormons, SDAs and JWs.

My LDS sister’s only comment was “at least they didn’t make us say the rosary!”.

It was a long weekend.

Wow - those are pretty horrible things your brother did. Bringing hurtful jabs to a funeral? Really? You can tell him that one of the mormons you argue with on CAF thinks he was totally out of line and rude.

My family has enjoyed a good friendship with our Catholic next door neighbors. I think they were up to 9 or 10 kids when they moved recently. One Saturday dad was at work and the mom had some urgent errand she needed to run off to, and she asked if we could watch her five or six youngest. When it was lunchtime, I got them sat around the kitchen table and said “ok guys, now show me how you pray”. They all knew, so it went just fine.

 

[twopekinguys]

Wow - those are pretty horrible things your brother did. Bringing hurtful jabs to a funeral? Really? You can tell him that one of the mormons you argue with on CAF thinks he was totally out of line and rude.

My family has enjoyed a good friendship with our Catholic next door neighbors. I think they were up to 9 or 10 kids when they moved recently. One Saturday dad was at work and the mom had some urgent errand she needed to run off to, and she asked if we could watch her five or six youngest. When it was lunchtime, I got them sat around the kitchen table and said “ok guys, now show me how you pray”. They all knew, so it went just fine.

I think that’s great, but, unfortunately, I think you are the exception rather than the rule in situations like that.

Unfortunately, we hear alot of stories of how some mormons try to “indoctrinate” children (Catholic or otherwise) without their parent’s knowledge.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I think that’s great, but, unfortunately, I think you are the exception rather than the rule in situations like that.

Unfortunately, we hear alot of stories of how some mormons try to “indoctrinate” children (Catholic or otherwise) without their parent’s knowledge.

Like inviting your kids over for pizza and neglecting to tell you the missionaries will be “practicing” their lessons on them?

From reading posts on MD&D LDS generally don’t see a problem with proselytizing children without their parents consent or knowledge. They view it more as the ends justify the means, not a one over there saw a problem with encouraging children to sneak behind their parents back to join the church. One convert described how as a young teen she told her parents she was going to another activity while actually meeting with missionaries, she was lauded for her actions, lauded for lying to her parents.

 

[PaulDupre1]

Like inviting your kids over for pizza and neglecting to tell you the missionaries will be “practicing” their lessons on them?

From reading posts on MD&D LDS generally don’t see a problem with proselytizing children without their parents consent or knowledge. They view it more as the ends justify the means, not a one over there saw a problem with encouraging children to sneak behind their parents back to join the church. One convert described how as a young teen she told her parents she was going to another activity while actually meeting with missionaries, she was lauded for her actions, lauded for lying to her parents.

Yes, Mormons are okay with lying so long as it furthers the aims of LDS, Inc.

They are taught to lie from a very young age. At Fast and Testimony meeting, LDS parents stand their toddlers up, hold the microphone in front of their mouths and whisper in their ears, forcing them to say “I know this church is true. I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet. I know that The Book of Mormon is true.” Of course, they don’t know anything of the sort and have no idea what they are saying, but the members all think it is sooooo cute. They all smile that deluded smile and say “awe…”.

Later, the kids are taught that “the best way to gain a testimony is by bearing it”. That means that if you don’t really believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet, you should say that you do believe it; and if you tell that lie often enough, you will come to believe that it is true.

This has been consistently taught by LDS prophets, seers and revelators at general conference. We missionaries were taught this in the MTC. It was reinforced at mission conferences after we got to our target countries.

The thing is this: Mormons are taught to lie from such a young age, and so effectively, that they usually don’t even know that they are lying; so long as they are saying what they know the church wants them to say they think they are speaking the truth. They easily adopt their own lies as truth and integrate the lies seamlessly into their beliefs and thought patterns.

Psychologists call people like this sociopaths. Mormons call them saints.

 

[opusAquinas]

Mormons, as I understand it, believe that there is a planet Kolob where the heavenly father lives and he had sex and fathered billions of souls. These souls “pre-exist” and therefore come into a body when it is physically conceived. Eventually, if you are a good mormon you get to be your own god with your own planet. The question I’d like to ask mormons is - which god of all gods started all this???

 

[debbie_h]

Yes, Mormons are okay with lying so long as it furthers the aims of LDS, Inc.

They are taught to lie from a very young age. At Fast and Testimony meeting, LDS parents stand their toddlers up, hold the microphone in front of their mouths and whisper in their ears, forcing them to say “I know this church is true. I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet. I know that The Book of Mormon is true.” Of course, they don’t know anything of the sort and have no idea what they are saying, but the members all think it is sooooo cute. They all smile that deluded smile and say “awe…”.

Later, the kids are taught that “the best way to gain a testimony is by bearing it”. That means that if you don’t really believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet, you should say that you do believe it; and if you tell that lie often enough, you will come to believe that it is true.

Oh this is so true!!! Makes me shudder actually…
I hated the fast & testimony sacrament meetings…we were all expected to say “I know that the LDS church is the only true church on this earth & that JS is the true prophet of God…I believe that the BOM is the true works of God translated by JS, I love my family & I have comfort in knowing that we have the plan of salvation…”
Add some tears & it’s all pretty convincing…

 

[Marie5890]

Understand the discomfort of using “Heavenly Father” and I admit, I dont use that title

I use “Abba”

 

[PaulDupre1]

Oh this is so true!!! Makes me shudder actually…
I hated the fast & testimony sacrament meetings…we were all expected to say “I know that the LDS church is the only true church on this earth & that JS is the true prophet of God…I believe that the BOM is the true works of God translated by JS, I love my family & I have comfort in knowing that we have the plan of salvation…”
Add some tears & it’s all pretty convincing…

The other thing with the kids that burns me is this:

The traditional testimony that kids are encouraged to declare has three parts -

1. I know this church is true
2. I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet
3. I know that my mommy and daddy love me

You see what they have done? They have linked mommy and daddy’s love to the church being true and Joseph Smith being a prophet. If one of them is not true, then neither are the others.

This is the LDS child’s introduction to conditional love.
The condition is belief in Joseph Smith and his church.

 

[Porknpie]

I did! And it was heavenly! So grateful to be able to share in the Eucharist now.

Wonderful. Congratulations!

Welcome home.

PnP

 

[Porknpie]

Same here. I fold them when praying publicly (amongst LDS) but can’t stand it. Privately I pray hands together pointing up.

Taylor,

Always be a witness to the Catholic faith and the Truth that is Jesus Christ. And have comfort that Christ has his arm on your shoulder as you do so.

We are all called to be witnesses to the Truth, each in our own way and ability.



PS… by the way, you’ve been a great witness on CAF…

 

[andrewstx]

Understand the discomfort of using “Heavenly Father” and I admit, I dont use that title

I use “Abba”

Nor do I. Especially considering what mormons mean when they say it. It is completely different from what orthodox Christians mean by the same two words.

You always have to remember that Mormons redefine everything practically.

 

[Porknpie]

I have a question for the ex-LDS now Catholic’s. I have a work associate who has left the LDS church but is not currently attending any church. Is there a book that you would recommend for him given his LDS background? I haven’t had a chance to speak with him in any detail (we were close but he moved and is now only recently back in town). I typically give out a Scott Hahn book or two but wasn’t sure in this situation.

Tx,

PnP

 

[Marie5890]

I have a question for the ex-LDS now Catholic’s. I have a work associate who has left the LDS church but is not currently attending any church. Is there a book that you would recommend for him given his LDS background? I haven’t had a chance to speak with him in any detail (we were close but he moved and is now only recently back in town). I typically give out a Scott Hahn book or two but wasn’t sure in this situation.

Tx,

PnP

PnP, I think what I would do is talk to him and see where he is at, spiritually. Does he still believe in God? Agnostic? Atheistic? What kinds of concerns (or wounds) does he have? What kind of questions? What sort of issues, if any, are stumbling blocks for him, whether generally or specifically.

Scott Hahn can be a great resource with one warning: You know Mormons mean something else with certain terms, so even Dr Hahn’s books may not be of help.

One book of Dr Hahn’s that might be helpful is the one he is promoting “Consuming the Word”. It helps Christians of today understand what Christians of the early church meant with various terms. Have you read it?

Im just musing right now, as to what is most helpful for former Mormons who are looking at Christianity in general. Perhaps Rebecca can be of help here since she probably sees this situation more than most living in UT?

 

[iepuras]

I have a question for the ex-LDS now Catholic’s. I have a work associate who has left the LDS church but is not currently attending any church. Is there a book that you would recommend for him given his LDS background? I haven’t had a chance to speak with him in any detail (we were close but he moved and is now only recently back in town). I typically give out a Scott Hahn book or two but wasn’t sure in this situation.

Tx,

PnP

Marie’s suggestion on asking where your colleague is at spiritually is important. Many ex-LDS become atheist or agnostic. If he is atheist or agnostic, I suggest Edward Feser’s book “The Last Superstition”. It is Feser’s response to Dawkins and other atheists. It is all about the philosophical battle between classical philosophy and materialism. It is also polemic (it is a response to Dawkins after all), which gave me a good chuckle. It was also a good refresher of the classical philosophy this tax accountant learned in college which was the foundation of my belief in God. It was about all I had left after leaving the LDS church.

If he leans Christian but really isn’t all that sure, I suggest Scott Hahn’s “Reasons to Believe” or Father Robert Barron’s “Catholicism”. They both start at the beginning with regards to believing in God, then move on to believing in Jesus Christ and then the Catholic Church. These books are lighter on the classical philosophy than Feser, who goes into great detail on in his book, so they may be better if your friend doesn’t really want too much philosophy.

I haven’t read it yet, but Trent Horn’s “Answering Atheism” may also be a good resource for him if he is atheist or agnostic.

 

[SteveVH]

The other thing with the kids that burns me is this:

The traditional testimony that kids are encouraged to declare has three parts -

1. I know this church is true
2. I know that Joseph Smith was a prophet
3. I know that my mommy and daddy love me

You see what they have done? They have linked mommy and daddy’s love to the church being true and Joseph Smith being a prophet. If one of them is not true, then neither are the others.

This is the LDS child’s introduction to conditional love.
The condition is belief in Joseph Smith and his church.

Wow! Whether or not the term “cult” is generally applicable to the LDS Church is arguable. What is not arguable is that practices such as this are certainly “cultish”. It is a way of forming young minds to link one of their most basic human needs, the love of ones father and mother, to the organization. This, together with family and community pressures to remain, with consequences if one does not, are very powerful tools; external pressures that have little or nothing to do with faith and reason.