LDS and Islam beginnings

[Claire_from_DE]

Does anyone else see a parallel between how the Mormon and Muslim religions began? Judaism and Christianity began with oral teachings that were lived out and were later put in written form. After the Jews settled on a canon of their scriptures and the Christians agreed upon a canon of their scriptures, somehow the idea was accepted that a ‘book’ was needed for authenticity.

Both Muhammed and Joseph Smith began with a ‘book’ that was dictated or decoded by an angel. Both added to and/or distorted biblical writings. Both taught things about Jesus that aren’t biblical or taught by the Christians from the beginning. Both claimed to be new prophets.

Could this be a method Satan used to distort Judaism and bring yet more division to Christianity?

Could Muhammad and Joseph Smith both be sincere? Since what they taught is totally at odds with each other, both could not be right even if we accepted the idea of God sending new prophets and new revelations after Jesus. Either we accept them as sincere but deluded or at least one of them was a fraud.

If you are Mormon or Muslim, why should we think your prophet is more reliable than the other one??

 

[Claire_from_DE]

My person opinion is they may have been sincere.

 

[Eucharisted]

This argument always goes in circles. Every falee religion has similar beginnings. A creature can only come up with so many new ideas, after all.

The test of religion is patience in persecution and openness to the truth. Only two religions have these qualities: Judiaism and Christianity.

 

[Hadi]

Could this be a method Satan used to distort Judaism

How is Islam distorted Judaism ?? ,
I think it’s Christianity that distorted Judaism (Trinity, Man-God)

 

[PatThompson]

The test of religion is patience in persecution and openness to the truth. Only two religions have these qualities: Judiaism and Christianity.

Interesting test for Religion! Can you explain more what you mean about ‘patience in persecution’?!

Without getting into the debate about whether Buddhism is a religion or not, isn’t it the most accepting of persecution? Its first statement is that “Life as we know it ultimately is or leads to suffering/uneasiness in one way or another.” To be a Buddhist you must fully accept that.

Contrast this to Jesus’s message that He is the only path to salvation to avoid the persecution of original sin.

I’m sure you mean something else - please clarify!

(And have you ever READ the ‘Old Testament’ ?! G-d dealt out the persecution pretty severely there.)

 

[bacalzoLDS]

I am LDS! What do you want to know? www.lds.org and www.mormon.org are the best sources, not the anti-LDS sites. I was researching Catholic sites and there are a lot of sites that do tell the truth. It is absolutely awful. In fact you can find any anti-(insert religion) site! The lies told about all religions are appauling!

FYI: I was born and raised Catholic. I kindly request that one not assume my reasons for being LDS, as I will not make assumptions about anyone else. I like to learn about other religions, am not a troll and have not malicious intent.

God bless.

 

[Agabriel]

How is Islam distorted Judaism ?? ,
I think it’s Christianity that distorted Judaism (Trinity, Man-God)

Have you taken a look at the Bible and the stories that Muhammed ripped off? All of them are twisted up to meet Muhammed’s agenda. Although, they are the only things that give the Quran any spirituality. Most other things are hateful and calling for violent actions.

And just because the Muslim world doesn’t understand the Trinity, and that Jesus was foretold in the Bible - don’t start with accusations that are unsubstantiated.

Anyway, to answer the original question - I think they were both narcissistic with Muhammed being the one with a severe personality disorder (uncaring for others, etc).

 

[Eucharisted]

Interesting test for Religion! Can you explain more what you mean about ‘patience in persecution’?!

Without getting into the debate about whether Buddhism is a religion or not, isn’t it the most accepting of persecution? Its first statement is that “Life as we know it ultimately is or leads to suffering/uneasiness in one way or another.” To be a Buddhist you must fully accept that.

Contrast this to Jesus’s message that He is the only path to salvation to avoid the persecution of original sin.

I’m sure you mean something else - please clarify!

(And have you ever READ the ‘Old Testament’ ?! G-d dealt out the persecution pretty severely there.)

Patience in persecution means not only passing through persecution and coming out anew but being augumented by said suffering. Persecution strengthens, refreshes, regenerates, and livens true religion; it would be like if you dropped a bomb on a city, but instead of destroying the city it made the city better, stronger, more technologically advanced, more populated, more well-off, bigger, and happier. Only Judaism and Christianity have ever suffered in patience. Every other religion has certainly suffered, but have not so much benefited from persecution; hence, they have failed the test of faith (patience in persecution). Certainly it is human wisdom that says man must bear sufferings patiently, but it is Divine Power that brings out of persecution strength, life, and glory.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

How is Islam distorted Judaism ?? ,
I think it’s Christianity that distorted Judaism (Trinity, Man-God)

Christianity accepts the Jewish scriptures (what we call the Old Testament) as being inspired by God and being faithfully passed down throughout Jewish history. Islam doesn’t accept these writings. It says they are wrong and changes them.

Christianity affirms that a Jew was born about 2,000 years ago who was the Jewish messiah and the savior of the world. We believe that God actually came into this world in the form of Jesus. We believe that Jewish prophesy pointed to him. We have added to the Jewish scriptures but we haven’t changed those actual writings. Some Jews accepted Jesus as the messiah and later began calling themselves Christians. Many other Jews didn’t believe Jesus was the messiah. Christians didn’t change the Jewish scriptures; but they did write additional manuscripts about the life and teachings of Jesus.

Since Christians believe God can do all things, we believe He could come into the world in the form of a man. We believe there is only one God but that He exists in the form of three persons without ceasing to be One God. We don’t understand this completely.

As I understand it, Islam teaches that the Jewish scriptures as they exist today are not the ‘real’ Jewish scriptures. It also says that the Christian scriptures as they exist today are not the ‘real’ Christian scriptures. It says this even though there is good evidence that both are the original scriptures.

Why do Muslims think that Jews and Christians have not passed down their scriptures faithfully? Is it in the Koran? Why does Muhammad or the Koran have the authority to say, “Oh look, this is not what was originally written in the bible?” How would you feel if some new prophet said, “Oh look, those are not the original words of the Koran”? I’m sure you would think that person didn’t know what he was talking about.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Claire, I agree that the origins of LDS and Islam are similar, so far as they go. Both claim that a prophet was visited by an angel (not the same one, but still…) Both introduced new scripture.

Some have argued that Islam is a heresy of the Church (of course the Church we know as the Catholic Church was the only recognized Christian Church at the time). As a parallel, Mormonism appears to be a heresy of Protestantism, since its roots are clearly Protestant.

But whatever the source of these two heresies, we were clearly warned against them and the so-called “scripture” introduced by their “prophets” in the New Testament:

Galatians Chapter 1

6 I am amazed that you are so quickly forsaking the one who called you by (the) grace (of Christ) for a different gospel
7 (not that there is another). But there are some who are disturbing you and wish to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach (to you) a gospel other than the one that we preached to you, let that one be accursed!
9 As we have said before, and now I say again, if anyone preaches to you a gospel other than the one that you received, let that one be accursed!

In the above passage St. Paul makes it clear that these “scriptures” that have since been introduced, purportedly from an angel, are not from God and should be rejected. It is enough for us to know that we should reject them. Like all things that are not from God, we should put them aside.

 

[Religio71]

yes, it’s important to note that LDS belief and practice is based in Protestantism, especially in relation to liturgy (or lack thereof) during the worship service(s).

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Claire, I agree that the origins of LDS and Islam are similar, so far as they go. Both claim that a prophet was visited by an angel (not the same one, but still…) Both introduced new scripture.

Some have argued that Islam is a heresy of the Church (of course the Church we know as the Catholic Church was the only recognized Christian Church at the time). As a parallel, Mormonism appears to be a heresy of Protestantism, since its roots are clearly Protestant.

But whatever the source of these two heresies, we were clearly warned against them and the so-called “scripture” introduced by their “prophets” in the New Testament:

Galatians Chapter 1

In the above passage St. Paul makes it clear that these “scriptures” that have since been introduced, purportedly from an angel, are not from God and should be rejected. It is enough for us to know that we should reject them. Like all things that are not from God, we should put them aside.

I had forgotten that the bible warns us against new teachings even if given by an angel. And at that time who would have imagined that an ‘angel’ would propose new teachings?

 

[OnlyAmbrose]

How is Islam distorted Judaism ?? ,
I think it’s Christianity that distorted Judaism (Trinity, Man-God)

Christianity claims continuity from the Old Testament (which it holds to be inerrant), while Islam claims that the Jews over time changed or corrupted the scriptures.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Christianity claims continuity from the Old Testament (which it holds to be inerrant), while Islam claims that the Jews over time changed or corrupted the scriptures.

Very concisely stated!

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Interesting test for Religion! Can you explain more what you mean about ‘patience in persecution’?!

Without getting into the debate about whether Buddhism is a religion or not, isn’t it the most accepting of persecution? Its first statement is that “Life as we know it ultimately is or leads to suffering/uneasiness in one way or another.” To be a Buddhist you must fully accept that.

Contrast this to Jesus’s message that He is the only path to salvation to avoid the persecution of original sin.

I’m sure you mean something else - please clarify!

(And have you ever READ the ‘Old Testament’ ?! G-d dealt out the persecution pretty severely there.)

Maybe ‘faithfulness or steadfastness in belief in spite of adversity’ would be another way of saying it. Job, for instance, when misfortune befell him and his friends turned against him. Or those of any faith who refuse to recant or change their way of life when persecuted by others.

 

[GodIsGracious]

I had forgotten that the bible warns us against new teachings even if given by an angel. And at that time who would have imagined that an ‘angel’ would propose new teachings?

And this is why there are no new prophets, even though they like to claim there are. The prophecies have been fulfilled. There is no need for further revelations.

I suspect that Christ gave his apostles many warnings and those were written down in later books of the New Testament. I’m still reading and so it’ll be interesting to see.

If we are to trust the Holy Spirit, we trust the Catholic Church. The Holy Spirit will not steer us wrong.

 

[mystified]

This is an honest question, not intended to derail this discussion or cause hard feelings.

Through the years, new editions of the Mormon books have been issued, some with marked differences from earlier editions. Has this also happened with the Koran?

 

[ParkerD]

Interesting test for Religion! Can you explain more what you mean about ‘patience in persecution’?!

Without getting into the debate about whether Buddhism is a religion or not, isn’t it the most accepting of persecution? Its first statement is that “Life as we know it ultimately is or leads to suffering/uneasiness in one way or another.” To be a Buddhist you must fully accept that.

Contrast this to Jesus’s message that He is the only path to salvation to avoid the persecution of original sin.

I’m sure you mean something else - please clarify!

(And have you ever READ the ‘Old Testament’ ?! G-d dealt out the persecution pretty severely there.)

Pat Thompson,
I hope that perhaps by having looked at this particular thread, you might have been following a personal interest you may have in either Mormonism or Islam or both. I think you may become quite interested in Mormonism if you were to study it in depth, particularly as you would find so many references to Old Testament prophecies being fulfilled–particularly the prophecies of Isaiah.

Such a study would best be done going to original source material.

 

[Agabriel]

This is an honest question, not intended to derail this discussion or cause hard feelings.

Through the years, new editions of the Mormon books have been issued, some with marked differences from earlier editions. Has this also happened with the Koran?

The reason why, in the Quran (or what Muhammed said that they say was Allah’s word), that they hate us is due to the Jews and Christians corrupting the Bible. So, the Quran must never change.

And if one reads it one will find out that the source of Islamic violence, hatred and intolerance worldwide comes from that Quran. And this is why things won’t change.

There was talk of rewriting the Quran, but who would it be for? For us? It still wouldn’t change for the Muslims worldwide and the only ones who would have this changed Quran would be us and we would be the ones who would be ignorant of what the Muslims have.

SOmeone mentioned a Furqan, but I don’t know anything about that. Maybe someone else can give some info on that. I don’t think it is a book from a Muslim source so it would probably be rejected by Muslims on a whole.

Keep in mind it is we who want it changed - not them. It is we who label and categorize Muslims into peaceful, mainstream, moderate, radical, terrorist, etc - not them.

 

[PaulDupre]

Christianity claims continuity from the Old Testament (which it holds to be inerrant), while Islam claims that the Jews over time changed or corrupted the scriptures.

Mormonism also claims that Christians changed or corrupted the scriptures. That is why they give only lip-service to the bible, while stressing Joseph Smith’s “more correct” writings.