LDS and JW's

[lilred5]

I’ve always thought that these two denominations were generally similar but I don’t know the differences between them. Or, for that matter, if they are even similar at all. Could anyone explain to me the differences between the two? Answers from LDS or JW’s would be really appreciated.

 

[Religio71]

there are a few similarities between the two:

-Both are Restorationist, meaning that they claim that original Christianity and authority were lost from earth, and was restored by their founders.

-Both have some sort of new scriptures, with LDS having the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, and the Doctrine and Covenants. JWs have their own version of the Bible that actually changes many words and phrases to fit their doctrine, called the New World Translation. Interestingly, the LDS also have a Joseph Smith Translation that does the same thing. The mainstream LDS Church does not have it canonized, though the Community of Christ (another Mormon denomination) does.

-Both have irregular understandings of the nature of God from traditional Christianity. LDS believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are 3 separate beings, that are not one in being/consubstantial. God the Father has a body of flesh and bones. They do not pray to Jesus (though they say that they worship him, just not pray to him). JW’s believe that Jesus was the first creation of God, and is thus subordinate to God (both LDS and JWs believe in subordinationism, with LDS believing that we are all spirit children of God the Father and his spouse, the Heavenly Mother, with Jesus being the first). JW’s also believe that the Holy Spirit is the “active force” of God, and is thus not God or a Person of the Trinity. Both deny the traditional doctrine of the Trinity.

-both deny the Real Presence, that the bread and wine actually become the Body and Blood of Christ.

 

[Religio71]

Differences are:

-LDS build temples, where they believe sacred ordinances occur that are necessary for exaltation, or becoming a god. JW’s do not have temples.

-JW’s typically avoid any “worldly” activities such as birthdays, Christmas, Easter, saluting the flag, saying the Pledge of Allegiance, etc. LDS do not have such restrictions.

-JW’s believe that Heaven will be on Earth, and that the vast majority of those that are saved will live on Earth. Heaven is restricted to 144,000 people. LDS believe that there are 3 levels of Heaven, the Celestial, Terrestrial, and Telestial Kingdoms. The highest level of salvation is called exaltation, where one can become a god.

-JW’s believe that when we die, there is no awareness or consciousness. We stop existing until the resurrection. LDS believe that at death, we go to the Spirit World until the resurrection, where there is Paradise, for those that are saved and received the Gospel, and Spirit Prison, for those that were wicked or did not hear the Gospel. Those in Spirit Prison can be saved by those on Earth through temple work, where dead people can be baptized by proxy, be endowed by proxy, be sealed (eternally married-essential for exaltation) by proxy, be confirmed by proxy, etc.

 

[ParkerD]

I’ve always thought that these two denominations were generally similar but I don’t know the differences between them. Or, for that matter, if they are even similar at all. Could anyone explain to me the differences between the two? Answers from LDS or JW’s would be really appreciated.

Lilred5,
I would say that there are practically no similarities, and the differences are vast. I think you would do yourself more justice to look up primary sources on the two religions to get the basics and compare using your own judgment. The LDS (Mormons) use the King James Bible, emphasizing the five books of Moses, Psalms, Isaiah, Joel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ruth, Zechariah, and Malachi in the Old Testament, and the entire New Testament. They especially emphasize the teachings of Christ in the Sermon on the Mount and His parables, as well as His intercessory prayer, and believe in the literal corporeal resurrection of Jesus as well as of all of humankind because of His atoning sacrifice. They also emphasize that priesthood is restored authority that is given to each male person who is worthy after they have reached twelve years old, with different offices and responsibilities within the priesthood to function as a service organization.

 

[dianaiad]

I’ve always thought that these two denominations were generally similar but I don’t know the differences between them. Or, for that matter, if they are even similar at all. Could anyone explain to me the differences between the two? Answers from LDS or JW’s would be really appreciated.

If I were you, and wanted to compare two religions claiming to be Christian, I would compose a short list of basic questions, such as:

“Who is God?”
“Who is Christ?”
“How are They related to one another?”
“What is salvation?”
“How do you attain it?”

Others…as they are of interest to you. Then I would go ask these questions of true believing members of each religion. For instance, if I were going to compare the Jehovah’s Witnesses with, say…Catholicism, I would ask these questions of a Jehovah’s Witness and of a Catholic.

Or in today’s world of the internet, I would go to the official websites of both faiths, and look up the official answers.

I would NOT ask an ex-member of either faith.
I would NOT ask someone who didn’t belong to either faith.

I would definitely not ask someone who doesn’t like either faith.

Now, since you are comparing Mormonism to the Jehovah’s Witnesses, I can help you with the Mormonism part. So can ParkerD or a couple of others here, who happen to BE Mormon. You can also go to www.lds.org.

None of us here can help you with the Jehovah’s Witnesses, except that their official website is here: watchtower.org/

Now I don’t see a whole lot of similarities between us, but then you might. (shrug) Who knows?

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Check these threads out, they’re good:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=261486

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2985382#post2985382

catholic.com/thisrock/1992/9203fea.asp

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=354498

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4831217#post4831217

:tiphat:

 

[pendraghon]

Lilred5,
I would say that there are practically no similarities, and the differences are vast. I think you would do yourself more justice to look up primary sources on the two religions to get the basics and compare using your own judgment. The LDS (Mormons) use the King James Bible, emphasizing the five books of Moses, Psalms, Isaiah, Joel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ruth, Zechariah, and Malachi in the Old Testament, and the entire New Testament. They especially emphasize the teachings of Christ in the Sermon on the Mount and His parables, as well as His intercessory prayer, and believe in the literal corporeal resurrection of Jesus as well as of all of humankind because of His atoning sacrifice. They also emphasize that priesthood is restored authority that is given to each male person who is worthy after they have reached twelve years old, with different offices and responsibilities within the priesthood to function as a service organization.

But you forgot the other parts- God is flesh and blood on a planet called Kobal (or is it Kolab? One is where their god lives and the other is where superman is from…); Adam was/is Christ, and there was no true original sin; Mary was impregnated by God in the flesh; If you are a good Mormon you will become a god of a planet and since you are sealed to a woman she will be the senior wife and you two will birth children who will populate your planet; your blood, should you be a sinner, will wash you of your sins- hence blood atonement- either you taking your own life or someone taking it for you (suicide or assisted suicide), which speaks loudly that your blood will wash you clean and the value of Christ’s Passion is of a lesser value. And why should they pray to Jesus Christ, once you have attained your godhood with them you will be equal to him. You decide- the poison of LDS is there, be careful… many will come in My name… he has warned us.

 

[Religio71]

But you forgot the other parts- God is flesh and blood on a planet called Kobal (or is it Kolab? One is where their god lives and the other is where superman is from…); Adam was/is Christ, and there was no true original sin; Mary was impregnated by God in the flesh; If you are a good Mormon you will become a god of a planet and since you are sealed to a woman she will be the senior wife and you two will birth children who will populate your planet; your blood, should you be a sinner, will wash you of your sins- hence blood atonement- either you taking your own life or someone taking it for you (suicide or assisted suicide), which speaks loudly that your blood will wash you clean and the value of Christ’s Passion is of a lesser value. And why should they pray to Jesus Christ, once you have attained your godhood with them you will be equal to him. You decide- the poison of LDS is there, be careful… many will come in My name… he has warned us.

Um, it’s much more effective to critique Mormonism if you get your information from actual Mormon sources, not anti-Mormon websites. There is much misinformation in your post.

I say this as an ex-Mormon.

 

[dj_dave]

“Who is God?”

JW’S ANSWER: The true God is not a nameless God. His name is Jehovah. (De 6:4; Ps 83:18) He is God by reason of his creatorship. (Ge 1:1; Re 4:11) The true God is real (Joh 7:28), and not lifeless natural law operating without a living lawgiver, not blind force working through a series of accidents to develop one thing or another.
His attributes. The true God is not omnipresent, for he is spoken of as having a location. (1Ki 8:49; Joh 16:28; Heb 9:24) His throne is in heaven. (Isa 66:1) He is all-powerful, being the Almighty God. (Ge 17:1; Re 16:14) “All things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of him,” and he is “the One telling from the beginning the finale.” (Heb 4:13; Isa 46:10, 11; 1Sa 2:3) His power and knowledge extend everywhere, reaching every part of the universe.—2Ch 16:9; Ps 139:7-12; Am 9:2-4.

Some of God’s primary attributes are love (1Jo 4:8), wisdom (Pr 2:6; Ro 11:33), justice (De 32:4; Lu 18:7, 8), and power (Job 37:23; Lu 1:35). He is a God of order and of peace. (1Co 14:33) He is completely holy, clean and pure (Isa 6:3; Hab 1:13; Re 4:8); happy (1Ti 1:11); and merciful (Ex 34:6; Lu 6:36). Many other qualities of his personality are described in the Scriptures.
His position. Jehovah is the Supreme Sovereign of the universe, the King eternal. (Ps 68:20; Da 4:25, 35; Ac 4:24; 1Ti 1:17) The position of his throne is the ultimate for superiority. (Eze 1:4-28; Da 7:9-14; Re 4:1-8) He is the Majesty (Heb 1:3; 8:1), the Majestic God, the Majestic One. (1Sa 4:8; Isa 33:21) He is the Source of all life.—Job 33:4; Ps 36:9; Ac 17:24, 25.

“Who is Christ?”

JW’S ANSWER: The name and title of the Son of God from the time of his anointing while on earth.
The name Jesus (Gr., I•e•sous′) corresponds to the Hebrew name Jeshua (or, in fuller form, Jehoshua), meaning “Jehovah Is Salvation.” The name itself was not unusual, many men being so named in that period. For this reason persons often added further identification, saying, “Jesus the Nazarene.” (Mr 10:47; Ac 2:22) Christ is from the Greek Khri•stos′, the equivalent of the Hebrew Ma•shi′ach (Messiah), and means “Anointed One.” Whereas the expression “anointed one” was properly applied to others before Jesus, such as Moses, Aaron, and David (Heb 11:24-26; Le 4:3; 8:12; 2Sa 22:51), the position, office, or service to which these were anointed only prefigured the superior position, office, and service of Jesus Christ. Jesus is therefore preeminently and uniquely “the Christ, the Son of the living God.”—Mt 16:16; see also

vindication.xanga.com/649437175/item/

“How are They related to one another?”

JW’S ANSWER: Prehuman Existence. The person who became known as Jesus Christ did not begin life here on earth. He himself spoke of his prehuman heavenly life. (Joh 3:13; 6:38, 62; 8:23, 42, 58) John 1:1, 2 gives the heavenly name of the one who became Jesus, saying: “In the beginning the Word [Gr., Lo′gos] was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god “was divine,” AT; Mo; or “of divine being,” Böhmer; Stage (both German)]. This one was in the beginning with God.” Since Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3), the Word’s being with God from “the beginning” must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah’s creative works. This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as “the firstborn of all creation,” “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Col 1:15; Re 1:1; 3:14) Thus the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, his firstborn Son. Ask yourselves: What does the word “of” mean in “firstborn OF all creation” Of means ‘taken from’

How he is the “only-begotten Son.” Jesus’ being called the “only-begotten Son” (Joh 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1Jo 4:9) by virtue of his being the sole direct creation of his Father,Rev 3:14… the firstborn Son was unique, different from all others of God’s sons, all of whom were created or begotten by Jehovah through that firstborn Son. So “the Word” was Jehovah’s “only-begotten Son” in a particular sense, even as Isaac was Abraham’s “only-begotten son” in a particular sense (his father already having another son but not by his wife Sarah).—Heb 11:17; Ge 16:15.

“What is salvation?”

JW’S ANSWER: Jesus came first and foremost to clear God’s Holy Name of all reproach and false teaching. Ps 79:9 says “Help us, O God of our salvation, For the sake of the glory of your name; And deliver us and cover over our sins on account of your name.” That is why we are to pray " 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,” --first and foremost even before we ask for our daily bread. Mathew 6:9,10,11 See also Jer 23:27 removing God’s Name from song books is a BIG mistake.

“How do you attain it?”

Matt 20:28 Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life a ransom in exchange for many.”

JW’S ANSWER: THE RANSOM A price paid to buy back or to bring about release from some obligation or undesirable circumstance. We must believe and exercise faith in Christ’s sin atoning blood to be saved
The strictness of God’s justice made it impossible for mankind itself to provide its own redeemer. SEE (Ps 49:6-9)

 

[dianaiad]

But you forgot the other parts- God is flesh and blood on a planet called Kobal (or is it Kolab? One is where their god lives and the other is where superman is from…); Adam was/is Christ, and there was no true original sin; Mary was impregnated by God in the flesh; If you are a good Mormon you will become a god of a planet and since you are sealed to a woman she will be the senior wife and you two will birth children who will populate your planet; your blood, should you be a sinner, will wash you of your sins- hence blood atonement- either you taking your own life or someone taking it for you (suicide or assisted suicide), which speaks loudly that your blood will wash you clean and the value of Christ’s Passion is of a lesser value. And why should they pray to Jesus Christ, once you have attained your godhood with them you will be equal to him. You decide- the poison of LDS is there, be careful… many will come in My name… he has warned us.

Ok, which group is supposed to believe this…JW’s or Mormons? I can’t speak for the JW’s, of course. I will say that you earned a 100% on presentation–since you are 100% wrong on LDS beliefs.

I wonder if you care?

 

[dianaiad]

Um, it’s much more effective to critique Mormonism if you get your information from actual Mormon sources, not anti-Mormon websites. There is much misinformation in your post.

I say this as an ex-Mormon.

In fact, I don’t think he got a single thing right. That seldom happens, y’know?

 

[dianaiad]

thank you!

I appreciate your comprehensive answers to the questions I posed (though I just came up with some off hand questions as examples, not as a comprehensive list of the important things.)

May I ask you about one of your points?

You mention that you believe that Jesus lived with the Father before His birth. Was He unique in that? How about the rest of us? (I know, I know…but I’m a Mormon. We believe that we all lived as spirits before our births. I am asking to see if there is a similarity of belief there).

Diana

 

[Religio71]

In fact, I don’t think he got a single thing right. That seldom happens, y’know?

seriously, especially for a first post.

 

[pendraghon]

Ok, which group is supposed to believe this…JW’s or Mormons? I can’t speak for the JW’s, of course. I will say that you earned a 100% on presentation–since you are 100% wrong on LDS beliefs.

I wonder if you care?

Um, it’s much more effective to critique Mormonism if you get your information from actual Mormon sources, not anti-Mormon websites. There is much misinformation in your post.

I say this as an ex-Mormon.

And you would be right, since I didn’t have to refer to anti-mormon websites, but rather from the meat given after the milk. A real mormon source will feed you milk until you are in too deep to realize that you have given your soul up to the inventions of the great deceiver.

In their deceit to garner converts they will not tell you the full extent of their doctrine, but will spoon feed very similar, but twisted aspects of their cult. It’s extremely tempting and extremely succulent at first until you get past the veneer and move through the priesthoods and find the scars and scabs of their beliefs. Be careful.

While they will tell you that they use KJV, although they put more emphasis on their Book of Mormon, the Pearl, and Doctrines… the Holy Bible is marginalised for their prophetic writings, and their twisted views of what is the Old Testament and New Testament as rewritten by them. I pray for their conversion and salvation and that their hearts will open to Christianity and the Trinity.

Until them I will kick dirt at the 72 of those in their quorum who pay homage to the great deceits and lies… and twist the hearts of those who are innocent and vulnerable.

 

[pendraghon]

Ok, which group is supposed to believe this…JW’s or Mormons? I can’t speak for the JW’s, of course. I will say that you earned a 100% on presentation–since you are 100% wrong on LDS beliefs.

I wonder if you care?

And if I am wrong, refute me rather than condemn me.

 

[Religio71]

And you would be right, since I didn’t have to refer to anti-mormon websites, but rather from the meat given after the milk. A real mormon source will feed you milk until you are in too deep to realize that you have given your soul up to the inventions of the great deceiver.

In their deceit to garner converts they will not tell you the full extent of their doctrine, but will spoon feed very similar, but twisted aspects of their cult. It’s extremely tempting and extremely succulent at first until you get past the veneer and move through the priesthoods and find the scars and scabs of their beliefs. Be careful.

While they will tell you that they use KJV, although they put more emphasis on their Book of Mormon, the Pearl, and Doctrines… the Holy Bible is marginalised for their prophetic writings, and their twisted views of what is the Old Testament and New Testament as rewritten by them. I pray for their conversion and salvation and that their hearts will open to Christianity and the Trinity.

Until them I will kick dirt at the 72 of those in their quorum who pay homage to the great deceits and lies… and twist the hearts of those who are innocent and vulnerable.

what were your sources for the info then?

Again, I’m an ex-Mormon, and I also critique Mormon beliefs. The actual doctrines.

 

[dianaiad]

Oh, shoot, I can’t sleep. Just for kicks, I’m going to address these.

But you forgot the other parts- God is flesh and blood on a planet called Kobal (or is it Kolab? One is where their god lives and the other is where superman is from…);

Kolob is not a planet.
Kolob is a star.
God does not live there.

Adam was/is Christ,

No, we do not believe that Adam was not/is not Christ. Only Jesus Christ is the Christ. I THINK (though I could be wrong about this…) that this is a Jehovah’s Witness belief. Don’t hold me to that, though. Evidently we have a Jehovah’s Witness on the thread. Ask him.

and there was no true original sin;

Yes there was. However, we believe that Christ took care of it with the Atonement.

Mary was impregnated by God in the flesh;

Hmmnnn…if by that you mean to claim that we believe that God had sex with Mary, sorry. No. Something tells me that’s exactly what you are attempting to claim. However, we do believe that Jesus is God’s only begotten Son. You know, that bit about the Holy Ghost appearing to her, and she got pregnant? The issue here is that since we believe that God the Father is the Father of Jesus, and that the Holy Ghost is NOT the Father of Jesus, I guess you can say that we believe that it was God Who impregnated Mary 'in the flesh," since Mary was definitely mortal, and so was Jesus. We believe, however, that Mary was absolutely a virgin at His birth.

If you are a good Mormon you will become a god of a planet

Uh, no…all the planets are taken by the One Who created 'em all.

and since you are sealed to a woman she will be the senior wife and you two will birth children who will populate your planet;

See above…this one is so offbase that it would take me a few pages to debunk it.

your blood, should you be a sinner, will wash you of your sins- hence blood atonement- either you taking your own life or someone taking it for you (suicide or assisted suicide), which speaks loudly that your blood will wash you clean and the value of Christ’s Passion is of a lesser value.

And that one is just plain wrong. Not a ‘twist,’ or a ‘misrepresentation,’ it’s just…wrong.

And why should they pray to Jesus Christ,

We don’t pray TO Jesus. We pray to the Father THROUGH Jesus. In His Name. Every time. Your speculation about why is, well, as accurate as the rest of your post.

once you have attained your godhood with them you will be equal to him. You decide- the poison of LDS is there, be careful… many will come in My name… he has warned us.

Yes. you should pay attention.

What I don’t get is how you can be so afraid of a belief system when you have no clue what it is?

 

[Religio71]

Oh, shoot, I can’t sleep. Just for kicks, I’m going to address these.

Kolob is not a planet.
Kolob is a star.
God does not live there.

No, we do not believe that Adam was not/is not Christ. Only Jesus Christ is the Christ. I THINK (though I could be wrong about this…) that this is a Jehovah’s Witness belief. Don’t hold me to that, though. Evidently we have a Jehovah’s Witness on the thread. Ask him.

Yes there was. However, we believe that Christ took care of it with the Atonement.

Hmmnnn…if by that you mean to claim that we believe that God had sex with Mary, sorry. No. Something tells me that’s exactly what you are attempting to claim. However, we do believe that Jesus is God’s only begotten Son. You know, that bit about the Holy Ghost appearing to her, and she got pregnant? The issue here is that since we believe that God the Father is the Father of Jesus, and that the Holy Ghost is NOT the Father of Jesus, I guess you can say that we believe that it was God Who impregnated Mary 'in the flesh," since Mary was definitely mortal, and so was Jesus. We believe, however, that Mary was absolutely a virgin at His birth.

Uh, no…all the planets are taken by the One Who created 'em all.

See above…this one is so offbase that it would take me a few pages to debunk it.

And that one is just plain wrong. Not a ‘twist,’ or a ‘misrepresentation,’ it’s just…wrong.

We don’t pray TO Jesus. We pray to the Father THROUGH Jesus. In His Name. Every time. Your speculation about why is, well, as accurate as the rest of your post.

Yes. you should pay attention.

What I don’t get is how you can be so afraid of a belief system when you have no clue what it is?

argh diana, it was funnier my way!

 

[dianaiad]

seriously, especially for a first post.

I don’t mind at all debating people who address beliefs I actually hold. It gets really annoying, however, to have to argue that I actually hold them.

I can’t help but wonder at the reactions of those I correct, y’know? You’d think that someone who claims we believe that God lives on a planet named Kolob, or that God had sex with Mary, would be RELIEVED to find out that we don’t believe that, and go on to the next thing.

But no, they react as if I’d just told their four-year-olds that Santa Claus doesn’t exist. I have destroyed their entire world view.

I don’t get it.

 

[dianaiad]

argh diana, it was funnier my way!

I know. Put it down to fuzzy headed insomnia. (sigh)

and a complete lack of patience for idiocy. (smacking self on head)