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Zundrah
Guest
Well most churches will say that we will feel the full presence of God in heaven but apparently mormon doctrine says something else?
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dianaiad
Guest
I see; the bigger the lie, the more you have to investigate it?
Does this mean that when I tell you that the word “purple” describes the color of growing grass, shamrocks, ivy, holly leaves and pine needles, you are going to have to look it up in the dictionary—or run outside to see if the grass is still green?
I guess I overreacted, but dang, Zundrah. You have been around long enough, and have criticized Mormonism often enough, that it isn’t too much to expect that you know something as basic to our beliefs as that. If you don’t, then you really shouldn’t make snarky comments about us until you learn a whole lot more.
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Zundrah
Guest
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dianaiad
Guest
We believe that in heaven we will be in the full presence of God, Jesus Christ His Son or the Holy Ghost, depending upon what degree of heaven in which we find ourselves. Hell is the complete absence of God or any influence of Him, or His Son, or the Holy Ghost.
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dianaiad
Guest
And you are paying attention? Well, I guess you’ll have to say ‘bye’ to us, then, go home and plan a beach trip for Sunday, because you aren’t going anywhere near any religion any time soon.Well…
I’ve been warned not to investigate cults.
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yellowbird
Guest
I’d like to get in line for questions… Here is mine:
Do you still believe that Jesus Christ returned in 1914 and chose his faithful and discreet slave, Charles T. Russel, to be His channel of communication? And that 1914 marked the begining of the end of this system of things and the generation that saw those events take place would not pass away?
Since the generation did NOT pass away as the Watchtower Society prophecized in every single AWAKE magazine for years, what do you make of that in light of the Bible’s warnings of a fale prophet in these verses in the NWT:
Duet 18:
20 “‘However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.’
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Zundrah
Guest
And you are paying attention? Well, I guess you’ll have to say ‘bye’ to us, then, go home and plan a beach trip for Sunday, because you aren’t going anywhere near any religion any time soon.
I BELIEVE in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth: And in Jesus Christ his only Son, our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; he descended into hell; the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen
This is the** only **religion that I care about. The One and only True and Holy Catholic Church.
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dianaiad
Guest
Dear Dave:
After you answer hers, my question might be easier, mostly because I’m not sure what, exactly, to ask. I don’t know enough about your faith to know WHAT to ask, so I’ll begin with the following general questions (be as brief as possible, there’s a 5000 word limit to posts in here!)
Where did we come from?
why are we here?
Where are we going?
Who is God?
Who is Jesus?
Who is the Holy Ghost? (is there one?)
Is there an afterlife?
What is it going to be like?
Who goes there?
What is the entire purpose of creation?
Is there going to be a 'second coming," and if so, how important is it to you in your everyday theology? What are your beliefs about it?
Ok, once we have those little items out of the way, let’s get to the Inquiring people want to know stuff:
How is your church organized (wait…do you call it a ‘church,’ or something else?)
Who makes the decisions?
What is your stand on marriage, divorce, remarriage?
How about interfaith dating and marriage?
What happens to someone who leaves your faith for another one, in terms of family and associations?
What sort of activities are expected of members in terms of religious matters; daily, weekly, monthly?
What is your stand on abortion?
…I think I remember that Jehovah’s Witnesses are adamant pacifists and absolutely non-political; are there any exceptions to that?
Do you have health laws (other than the not taking blood products thing, which I know about)
Any dietary restrictions?
What about education?
Baptism and communion: do you have them? How important are they in your belief system? How are they taken care of?
I’ve heard that you practice a form of 'shunning." How does that work, if it does at all?
Ok, I think that’s it for now. If I think of anything else, I’ll jot it down, but I think these will keep you busy for a bit. :juggle:
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dianaiad
Guest
OK then,
I BELIEVE in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth: And in Jesus Christ his only Son, our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; he descended into hell; the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen
This is the** only **religion that I care about. The One and only True and Holy Catholic Church.
I suggest you stop listening to the idiots who are trying to tell you what everybody they hate ‘really’ believes, and concentrate on your catechism classes, then. You have enough on your plate learning about Catholicism to have time to get all nervous (and completely whacky) about everybody else.
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Zundrah
Guest
…nervous? …whacky? Dianaiad you have just discribed all of your post!
I know enough about Catholicsm to know that mormonism isn’t worth researching.
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yellowbird
Guest
I don’t think Dinaiad is asking you to research things in order to become Mormon. I think he/she is telling you to read up a little about the Mormon church in order to ask appropriate questions, rather that totally off the wall silly ones. If you even have questions? Maybe you don’t… ? I think Dinaiad is ok with that too.
I have no desire to change religions - very happy being Catholic - but I love to know what people believe and why. So I ask lots of questions and I listen to the answers… not to debate, just to see where someone else is coming from. Understanding each other is a good thing.
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Zundrah
Guest
Hi yellowbird,I don’t think Dinaiad is asking you to research things in order to become Mormon. I think he/she is telling you to read up a little about the Mormon church in order to ask appropriate questions, rather that totally off the wall silly ones. If you even have questions? Maybe you don’t… ? I think Dinaiad is ok with that too.
I have no desire to change religions - very happy being Catholic - but I love to know what people believe and why. So I ask lots of questions and I listen to the answers… not to debate, just to see where someone else is coming from. Understanding each other is a good thing.
I asked the mormonds questions about recent claims that i have heard. But the problem with mormons is that all the research you can do is pretty much pointless because there is stuff that you would only find out after having been accepted into thier church.
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zerinus
Guest
When you decide to come back, you might like to answer the questions raised in this article too.
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dianaiad
Guest
You don’t actually think about what you are going to write before you press the keys, do you?
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Zundrah
Guest
You’re back? I missed you!
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dianaiad
Guest
(snort…) and how is one supposed to defend against that particular accusation? I mean, I can say that we tell everybody anything they want to know before baptism, but how are we going to prove that?
It’s what keeps conspiracy theorists happily making tin foil hats.
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Zundrah
Guest
Dianaiad,
…let’s put it this way shall we; I had someone tell me that mormons believe that Christ was just a prophet. So, do you know what I did? I came straight here and asked you rather than just just believe the claim.
Is that so silly?
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zerinus
Guest
There are publications by the JWs that give a good exposition of their theological beliefs, but they are not easy to get hold of nowadays. This article from the BBC website gives a brief and reasonably accurate summary of their beliefs. The following articles were written by JWs, and try to avoid entering too deeply into their doctrinal beliefs.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beliefs_and_practices_of_Jehovah’s_Witnesses
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah’s_Witnesses
watchtowerinformationservice.org/doctrine-changes/jehovah-witness-beliefs/
Edit: The last link was the wrong one. I just corrected it.
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JaMc
Guest
I see very few similarities between the Mormons and J.W.'s at all. However, I think the reasons why they are often lumped together is:
(1) They are vastly different theologically from the Catholic Church, probably the furthest away of any group considering itself Christian;
(2) They engage in vigourous missionary activity, and are very visible; and
(3) The fact that they tend to keep to themselves when not trying to proselytize, and that they seem to prefer to deal and conduct business with their own members over others tends to cause others to view them as “cultish.”
(1) They are vastly different theologically from the Catholic Church, probably the furthest away of any group considering itself Christian;
(2) They engage in vigourous missionary activity, and are very visible; and
(3) The fact that they tend to keep to themselves when not trying to proselytize, and that they seem to prefer to deal and conduct business with their own members over others tends to cause others to view them as “cultish.”
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dianaiad
Guest
It wouldn’t be silly at all, Zundruh, if we haven’t told you many times Who we believe Jesus to be. I’ve told you. Parker has. You have written posts on threads that discuss Who we think Jesus is, and you have insulted us on most of them.
It wouldn’t be silly at all, if you didn’t like posting so many one line insults about Mormonism, calling us cultists, frauds, and other things.
But you have been told, and you do insult us and warn people not to learn about us.
If you honestly don’t remember what we’ve told you about what we believe, that’s fine. Ask as many times as you need to. That’s not a problem.
Just don’t expect us to be patient with you when you write so many insulting posts about us, pretending that you know who we are and what we believe, when you don’t. That’s not nice, or fair. It gets people upset.
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