LDS and the Cross. Hope you find this interesting

  • Thread starter Thread starter catholic-rcia
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
C

catholic-rcia

Guest
The Cross used as a divider by the LDS faithful / what would you do?

How would you answer this Mormon friend / How would you answer this as a Catholic at this table?

Recently I was at a memorial for my younger brother who died many years ago in a tragic car accident.

My sister who now has 5 children has one who is twelve years old that has been attending the Mormon Church with a family friend. My sister and her family do not attend any church and feel that it is good for him. Their background is Greek Orthodox. They do make the sign of the Cross when I have a blessing on the meal when we get together.
After the service Mathew who is a bright child came over to me and pointed at my Crucifix that I always wear. Not to my surprise he shyly started asking me a question that I was able to finish for him. He started to say in a stumbling broken kind of way.
If say. a grandmother was killed by a man with a hammer, well …well…I said; “would we hang the hammer on the wall right Mathew?”

Smiling slightly he answered yes

Right at my feet was an Orthodox etching of a cross on the tombstone. I pointed to it and said “Mathew the cross is the greatest Christian symbol of all time. Look over there, what is that. He says a cross

Look at that grave over there, do you see it? The Cross? He says yes.
Again. Mathew this is our symbol as authentic Christians.

Now I kind of left it right there as he is only 12 years old. If he asked another I would have answered.

It’s hard to know that a child you love is being taught what he is being taught about the Cross and of course first and foremost the 2000 year old Catholic Church, along with all other Christian denominations that flow from the Catholic Church. I know exactly what is taking place in his new circle. The initiation process of division.

My question is this.

Do you think I should show him this? Maybe around the dinner table this Sunday as we are celebrating a late Greek Easter in the evening. His Mormon friend will be there. He does not know that I know the inside story to all of this. I could bring it up as a question that Mathew asked me that I would love to further respond to in a sharing kind of way.

Like this:

Mathew you asked me a really cool question while at Michael’s Memorial. Really made me think. Here is a good way to look at this Mathew. Let’s take these two scriptures about the Cross and our Savior. There are so many like these two.

Lets take 1st Corinthians 1:18

…the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."

Now lets replace Cross with Hammer

…the message of the (Hammer) is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved
it is the power of God."

Does that make sense to you?

How about this great scripture Mathew regarding the Cross of Christ, our symbol of faith from
Colossians 2:14

“…having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”

Saint Paul is speaking about our sin, how only Jesus can wipe this out for us. Let me read it again:

“…having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”

Let me read it again using a hammer in the place of the Cross

“…having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the Hammer.”
Colossians 2:14

Can you see the Wisdom is this? Its different right?

And now his friend who is eighty years old
“But we agree on the scriptures, on the Cross. On the atonement. We just would not hang it on our walls or place it in our Church.

Now how would you respond knowing where this is all coming from and how you just presented this? How would you answer this as a Catholic at this table? Simply saying we would not hang the cross on the wall, no. It is being compared to simply a murder weapon. Then on to “We focus on His resurrection, not His death”
 
Without His death, there would be no Redemption, and no Resurrection. When we look at the Cross, we find consolation and solace in our own suffering. LDS have no such solace.
 
It’s true that when we lose someone, we want to remember the life not the death. We do not tie a noose of thread around our thumb to remember someone who was hanged, or hang a flask of seawater around our neck to remember someone who drowned. Our cherished memories are not of death but life. Life is what we are made for; death is the end.

But that is what is special about the Cross: for our LORD, it was NOT the end. He had a natural life, like everybody; he died, like everybody; but HE overcame it. And in so doing, His death became our hope.

ICXC NIKA!
 
Tell him “But we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block, and to the Greeks foolishness…” (1 Cor 1:23)

Christians would not glorify a mere hammer that murdered our grandmother, because that would be a symbol of tragedy ending in death. Christians glorify the cross, which is not a tragedy, but a symbol that opens the gate of eternal life.

Don’t be afraid to tell him that Mormon theology is not Christian.
 
I have lived in Utah for the last ten years and have had relationships with Mormons for about 25 years. I have often heard the question “if your child/grandparent/etc died in a car accident/ bicycle accident/etc would you wear a bicycle/car/etc around your neck?”

My response is no, but if Jesus Christ died in a car/on a bicycle/etc I most certainly would.

Why is the crucifixion of Our Savior brought down to the level of the death of a loved one? That is so weird and ridiculous I can’t understand the comparison.

(Obviously, finding solace and comfort in Christ’s suffering on the cross when dealing with the death of a loved one is a different conversation).

I truly applaud your efforts btw.
 
Well to me, personally the cross is the symbol of Christ’s victory over death, not the symbol of his death. I just think their difference of opinion of the cross is simply another indication that Christianity and Mormonism are irreconcilable, and that we have two different conceptions of Christ’s atonement.
 
That bothered me during my “sojorn” as an LDS when I left the Catholic Church for just under a year.

This is what I was told about the Cross and why they don’t use the symbol, I was basically told this:

lds.org/topics/cross?lang=eng

This is not logical to me. We do believe in the Risen Christ and are supposed to be living our faith as Christians and that is our symbol, but we also rejoice in the Cross, as we cannot have Heaven without the Cross first of all.

It’s very puzzling to me as the LDS do talk about the Atonement (Christ’s Death) a lot, but won’t use the symbol of the Cross. The Cross is the symbol of Christianity…so this is very strange to me.
 
catholic-rcia said:
After the service Mathew who is a bright child came over to me and pointed at my Crucifix that I always wear. Not to my surprise he shyly started asking me a question that I was able to finish for him. He started to say in a stumbling broken kind of way.
If say. a grandmother was killed by a man with a hammer, well …well…I said; “would we hang the hammer on the wall right Mathew?”

Smiling slightly he answered yes
Click to expand...
There is something wrong when a child is taught to “snark” on the symbolism of another faith especially when the child is a from a non-member family. Looks to me like his time in the LDS church is being used to create a divide between the boy and his family.
 
catholic-rcia said:
My sister who now has 5 children has one who is twelve years old that has been attending the Mormon Church with a family friend. My sister and her family do not attend any church and feel that it is good for him. Their background is Greek Orthodox. They do make the sign of the Cross when I have a blessing on the meal when we get together.
After the service Mathew who is a bright child came over to me and pointed at my Crucifix that I always wear.
…
My question is this.

Do you think I should show him this? Maybe around the dinner table this Sunday as we are celebrating a late Greek Easter in the evening. His Mormon friend will be there. He does not know that I know the inside story to all of this. I could bring it up as a question that Mathew asked me that I would love to further respond to in a sharing kind of way.
Click to expand...
Since I started coming to CAF, I’ve learned all about the notion of proselyting, and why Catholics tend to be against it.

It’ll be interesting to hear the responses in this thread. Let’s hear it, CAF - what should the poster do with this 12 year old child? And should it be done behind the mother’s back?
 
NeuroTypical said:
Since I started coming to CAF, I’ve learned all about the notion of proselyting, and why Catholics tend to be against it.

It’ll be interesting to hear the responses in this thread. Let’s hear it, CAF - what should the poster do with this 12 year old child? And should it be done behind the mother’s back?
Click to expand...
For one, teach him that the trite and overused sound byte “if your son or daughter died on a bicycle” is ridiculous.
 
catholic-rcia said:
The Cross used as a divider by the LDS faithful / what would you do?

How would you answer this Mormon friend / How would you answer this as a Catholic at this table?

Recently I was at a memorial for my younger brother who died many years ago in a tragic car accident.

My sister who now has 5 children has one who is twelve years old that has been attending the Mormon Church with a family friend. My sister and her family do not attend any church and feel that it is good for him. Their background is Greek Orthodox. They do make the sign of the Cross when I have a blessing on the meal when we get together.
After the service Mathew who is a bright child came over to me and pointed at my Crucifix that I always wear. Not to my surprise he shyly started asking me a question that I was able to finish for him. He started to say in a stumbling broken kind of way.
If say. a grandmother was killed by a man with a hammer, well …well…I said; “would we hang the hammer on the wall right Mathew?”

Smiling slightly he answered yes

Right at my feet was an Orthodox etching of a cross on the tombstone. I pointed to it and said “Mathew the cross is the greatest Christian symbol of all time. Look over there, what is that. He says a cross

Look at that grave over there, do you see it? The Cross? He says yes.
Again. Mathew this is our symbol as authentic Christians.

Now I kind of left it right there as he is only 12 years old. If he asked another I would have answered.

It’s hard to know that a child you love is being taught what he is being taught about the Cross and of course first and foremost the 2000 year old Catholic Church, along with all other Christian denominations that flow from the Catholic Church. I know exactly what is taking place in his new circle. The initiation process of division.

My question is this.

Do you think I should show him this? Maybe around the dinner table this Sunday as we are celebrating a late Greek Easter in the evening. His Mormon friend will be there. He does not know that I know the inside story to all of this. I could bring it up as a question that Mathew asked me that I would love to further respond to in a sharing kind of way.

Like this:

Mathew you asked me a really cool question while at Michael’s Memorial. Really made me think. Here is a good way to look at this Mathew. Let’s take these two scriptures about the Cross and our Savior. There are so many like these two.

Lets take 1st Corinthians 1:18

…the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."

Now lets replace Cross with Hammer

…the message of the (Hammer) is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved
it is the power of God."

Does that make sense to you?

How about this great scripture Mathew regarding the Cross of Christ, our symbol of faith from
Colossians 2:14

“…having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”

Saint Paul is speaking about our sin, how only Jesus can wipe this out for us. Let me read it again:

“…having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”

Let me read it again using a hammer in the place of the Cross

“…having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the Hammer.”
Colossians 2:14

Can you see the Wisdom is this? Its different right?

And now his friend who is eighty years old
“But we agree on the scriptures, on the Cross. On the atonement. We just would not hang it on our walls or place it in our Church.

Now how would you respond knowing where this is all coming from and how you just presented this? How would you answer this as a Catholic at this table? Simply saying we would not hang the cross on the wall, no. It is being compared to simply a murder weapon. Then on to “We focus on His resurrection, not His death”
Click to expand...
How did it go?
 
NeuroTypical said:
Since I started coming to CAF, I’ve learned all about the notion of proselyting, and why Catholics tend to be against it.

It’ll be interesting to hear the responses in this thread. Let’s hear it, CAF - what should the poster do with this 12 year old child? And should it be done behind the mother’s back?
Click to expand...
The OP has always shown in his posts that he shares his faith with LDS via the cross. He is always very gentle and has never been deceptive. Proselyting on the other hand, engages deceptive means.

Explaining the cross in relationship to Easter is about as normal for Catholics as putting your shoes on. If the boy is allowed to be at his home for a Easter celebration, I’m guessing his parents know that there will be religious content and teachings that are not correlated with the Church Office Building in SLC.
 
Full disclosure - I’ve never disrespected folks wearing crosses or crucifixes, or religious symbolism or clothing of any kind. My daughter asked me about wearing a cross once, I said “Go for it, if you want to. Mormons usually don’t do that, we tend to focus on the resurrected Christ rather than the crucified Christ. But if you wanna wear a cross, and your primary teacher gives you any grief, tell them to go talk to Mamma, and she’ll rip her a new one.”

🙂
 
If and when an LDS person makes a comment about Catholicism that is incorrect or half-baked, I do not see anything wrong with giving a clear explanation, nor is that proselytizing.
 
lax16 said:
I have lived in Utah for the last ten years and have had relationships with Mormons for about 25 years. I have often heard the question “if your child/grandparent/etc died in a car accident/ bicycle accident/etc would you wear a bicycle/car/etc around your neck?”

My response is no, but if Jesus Christ died in a car/on a bicycle/etc I most certainly would.

Why is the crucifixion of Our Savior brought down to the level of the death of a loved one? That is so weird and ridiculous I can’t understand the comparison.

(Obviously, finding solace and comfort in Christ’s suffering on the cross when dealing with the death of a loved one is a different conversation).

I truly applaud your efforts btw.
Click to expand...
This^^. My dad’s side of the family is all mostly Mormon, and I have been asked the same question as well.
I reply that that the Cross is the symbol of our salvation unlike anyone else who died that can’t save us.
 
NeuroTypical said:
Since I started coming to CAF, I’ve learned all about the notion of proselyting, and why Catholics tend to be against it.

It’ll be interesting to hear the responses in this thread. Let’s hear it, CAF - what should the poster do with this 12 year old child? And should it be done behind the mother’s back?
Click to expand...
First, for the sake of the posters on this thread, there needs to be a clear definition of proselyting.

*VERB 1.convert or attempt to convert (someone) from one religion, belief, or opinion to another:

: to try to persuade people to join a religion, cause, or group

Proselytism // is the act of attempting to convert people to another religion or opinion
*

These are simple common definitions of proselyting.

Now what is the OP to do. Explain the purpose of the cross or crucifix for Christians. It’s perfectly acceptable to explain our faith without the ulterior motive to convert those around us.
 
Vanny said:
This^^. My dad’s side of the family is all mostly Mormon, and I have been asked the same question as well.
I reply that that the Cross is the symbol of our salvation unlike anyone else who died that can’t save us.
Click to expand...
👍
 
lax16 said:
Why is the crucifixion of Our Savior brought down to the level of the death of a loved one? That is so weird and ridiculous I can’t understand the comparison.
Click to expand...
Perhaps you are not aware that in LDS theology we are all spirit children of our Heavenly Father with Jesus Christ being the first born in the spirit and occasionally referred to as our “Elder Brother”. So, in LDS theology Christ is in essence a spiritual loved one.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top