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SteveVH
Guest
The LDS silence on this thread is deafening.
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iepuras
Guest
Truth is not important to LDS leaders in SLC, only praying, paying and obeying. Actually, let me change that. LDS leaders only care about paying and obeying. Who care if anyone actually prays.
They want Mormons to ignore the fact that Joseph Smith lied about the BOA, the BOM, Cumorah, etc. My question is, what did Joseph Smith NOT lie about?
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Marie5890
Guest
I am/was hoping to get some responses from LDS members to know what they think about this…
I know what WE think, but really want to know what and how its going over in the LDS culture…
I know what WE think, but really want to know what and how its going over in the LDS culture…
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TexanKnight
Guest
How many revelations that js, already a convicted con man, lied does it take for Mormons to say, “gee…he was a liar and I need to rethink the LDS Church”?
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twopekinguys
Guest
Don’t you mean another PR nightmare?
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Telstar
Guest
Don’t feel bad, Marie. When I first saw it, my mind went to World of Warcraft (the online game) that has items that are available to use in the game, that are referred to as BoA, Bind on Account, so that’s where my head was at. I had to peak to see what it really meant. Then, I felt really stupid because I should have known what it was. :doh2:
(Yes… I do play WoW.
)
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Marie5890
Guest
Don’t feel bad, Marie. When I first saw it, my mind went to World of Warcraft (the online game) that has items that are available to use in the game, that are referred to as BoA, Bind on Account, so that’s where my head was at. I had to peak to see what it really meant. Then, I felt really stupid because I should have known what it was. :doh2:
(Yes… I do play WoW.
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LivingWaters7
Guest
You can read LDS thoughts on the matter here: mormondialogue.org/topic/63845-new-gospel-topic-entry-re-boa/
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zaffiroborant
Guest
Funny stuff, I like how they have to resort to it only has to be possible not plausible. There are no facts only interpretation. Defenders of the LDS church only have to show a .0000000000000000000001 percent chance that it is is possible in order to win, those opposed have to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is false.
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TexanKnight
Guest
reading that board is funny. They spend all their time trying mightily to explain why the Book of A can still be what it claims to be.
They completely ignore the fact that JS stated emphatically how it was translated and it turns out he lied about it.
Doesn’t that mean anything?
They completely ignore the fact that JS stated emphatically how it was translated and it turns out he lied about it.
Doesn’t that mean anything?
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Marie5890
Guest
Apparently not.
They need to disregard, outright, the very words of Smith himself, not even realizing that by doing so, they are proclaiming him, “the prophet”, to be a liar.
But they don’t see it. They really do not see it.
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TexanKnight
Guest
Joseph Smith: On July 5, 1835, the Prophet recorded, “I commenced the translation of some of the characters or hieroglyphics, and much to our joy found that one of the rolls contained the writings of Abraham…. Truly we can say, the Lord is beginning to reveal the abundance of peace and truth” (HC 2:236).
Warren Parrish: Warren Parrish, one of the scribes involved in the translation during late 1835, stated, “I have set [sic] by his side and penned down the translation of the Egyptian Hiero-glyphicks [sic] as he claimed to receive it by direct inspiration of Heaven.”
‘’. . . [Joseph Smith’s] most notable achievement was the development at Kirtland of a grammar for the Egyptian hieroglyphic form of writing. This was used by him, as well as divine aid, in translating ancient writings of the patriarch Abraham. The Restored Church 1956 ed., p. 133.
History of the Church, Vol. 2, p. 238, says that regarding July of 1835:
Joseph Smith- “The remainder of this month, I was continually engaged in translating an alphabet to the Book of Abraham, and arranging a grammar of the Egyptian language as practiced by the ancients”.
LDS Church Now:
The Prophet Joseph Smith never communicated his method of translating these records. As with all other scriptures, a testimony of the truthfulness of these writings is primarily a matter of faith. The greatest evidence of the truthfulness of the book of Abraham is not found in an analysis of physical evidence nor historical background, but in prayerful consideration of its content and power.
It is clear that it was understood and believed that JS translated the Book of Abraham like I would translate a document from Spanish to English: looking at the one, realizing what the word was in English, and writing it down.
Now the LDS Church, predictably as evidence mounts against earlier teachings and beliefs, has backed off and says something different.
Go figure
Warren Parrish: Warren Parrish, one of the scribes involved in the translation during late 1835, stated, “I have set [sic] by his side and penned down the translation of the Egyptian Hiero-glyphicks [sic] as he claimed to receive it by direct inspiration of Heaven.”
‘’. . . [Joseph Smith’s] most notable achievement was the development at Kirtland of a grammar for the Egyptian hieroglyphic form of writing. This was used by him, as well as divine aid, in translating ancient writings of the patriarch Abraham. The Restored Church 1956 ed., p. 133.
History of the Church, Vol. 2, p. 238, says that regarding July of 1835:
Joseph Smith- “The remainder of this month, I was continually engaged in translating an alphabet to the Book of Abraham, and arranging a grammar of the Egyptian language as practiced by the ancients”.
LDS Church Now:
The Prophet Joseph Smith never communicated his method of translating these records. As with all other scriptures, a testimony of the truthfulness of these writings is primarily a matter of faith. The greatest evidence of the truthfulness of the book of Abraham is not found in an analysis of physical evidence nor historical background, but in prayerful consideration of its content and power.
It is clear that it was understood and believed that JS translated the Book of Abraham like I would translate a document from Spanish to English: looking at the one, realizing what the word was in English, and writing it down.
Now the LDS Church, predictably as evidence mounts against earlier teachings and beliefs, has backed off and says something different.
Go figure
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SteveVH
Guest
It is difficult for me to believe that more than a few Mormons have not read this thread by now. If there is any defense to be made on this subject why is it not being made?
As a Catholic, if one of the canonized books of the Bible was being challenged as a fraud I would be on it like white on rice. This not only affects the book in question, but brings the validity of any of the other canonized texts into question as well. Not to mention it proves the founding “prophet” to be a fraud. The importance of this would seem to be staggering, yet not one response.
Is there a Mormon out there who is willing to discuss this statement made by your own church?
As a Catholic, if one of the canonized books of the Bible was being challenged as a fraud I would be on it like white on rice. This not only affects the book in question, but brings the validity of any of the other canonized texts into question as well. Not to mention it proves the founding “prophet” to be a fraud. The importance of this would seem to be staggering, yet not one response.
Is there a Mormon out there who is willing to discuss this statement made by your own church?
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TexanKnight
Guest
what arr they gonna say? We have made the point over and over again about the fact the LDS Church changes doctrine and teaching more often than some folks change clothes. When the LDS Church proves us right, it is embarrassing for them
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JamesCollins
Guest
The only position they could really take is the position of the Community of Christ (RLDS) which accepts the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants, but always rejected the Book of Abraham. They saw the Book of Abraham as Joseph Smith using his own brain without God’s intervention to try to translate something while seeing the Book of Mormon as translated by the gift and power of God. The LDS would have to admit their own prophets made a mistake in 1880 when the Book of Abraham was canonized. The RLDS never made that mistake.
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KendraM
Guest
What is logical in their explanation of the BOA? One must have ‘faith’ to believe. Then when someone breaks through to the logical side of their brain, it is hard to have faith again. Then they have to prove everything or become atheist or agnostic.Are any of the writings that Joseph Smith supposedly translated still extant in their original form? I ask just because it seems amazing to me that we have biblical writings in their original languages going back for hundreds and thousands of years, yet for documents that were supposedly extant a little less than 200 years ago, we have little to nothing? I don’t know much at all about the LDS faith, but it just seems logical to me that if the additional writings Mormons hold as canonical were truly divinely inspired as they claim, there would be abundant evidence of these writings similar to what we have with the Bible.
Also, Joseph Smith ‘translated’ the Bible. Does this fit the biblical writings found from thousands of years ago? I don’t think so. They could research that and find out whether js did that right. They rewrite history just as js rewrote the Bible.
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SteveVH
Guest
And still, no Mormon response. Is this not a little embarrassing for the LDS on this forum? Can you offer any defense at all?
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Marie5890
Guest
I have compassion for them.
Their leaders are and keep changing what has been well held beliefs.
It’s not easy to make those kinds of adjustments.
What the 21st leadership of the LDS church is doing basically undoes Joseph Smith’s teaching, the so-called “THE prophet” was is reportedly to have “restored” Christ’s church.
Clearly, the 21st century leaders are distancing themselves from Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith and what he taught. . The Prophet.
Their leaders are and keep changing what has been well held beliefs.
It’s not easy to make those kinds of adjustments.
What the 21st leadership of the LDS church is doing basically undoes Joseph Smith’s teaching, the so-called “THE prophet” was is reportedly to have “restored” Christ’s church.
Clearly, the 21st century leaders are distancing themselves from Joseph Smith, Joseph Smith and what he taught. . The Prophet.
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Marie5890
Guest
Apparently this is the latest Mormon website information that is also leading people out of Mormonism.
cesletter.com
Anyone heard of this? I just came across it.
cesletter.com
Anyone heard of this? I just came across it.
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iepuras
Guest
The CES letter is the go to document these days. John Dehlin posted his interview with the author Jeremy Runnels a couple of weeks ago on Mormon Stories.
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