LDS Baptizes and Seals St. Damien to a "wife"

[Anna_Scott]

Anna Scott,
Was it you or someone else who posted exactly the same story with exactly the same words a couple of months ago on this website? It would come across as more believable if you would at least change some of the words rather than use exactly the same content with no variation. Do you have it memorized?

It is my story. I have posted it a number of times. It sounds the same, because it is easier to do a “cut and Paste,” than to keep rewriting the experience.

I first posted it to Finrock in Post #616, Jun 14, '09, 9:48 am:

**Thread: **What do you think is the biggest obstacle to unity between Catholic Christians and non–Catholic Christians?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5324407#post5324407

I think I confused whether Kolob is a star or planet–same idea either way.

Anna

 

[amontoya]

Amontoya,
I assume there will be some kind of creative activity that will be engaging and delightful in even the Telestial glory.

Creative activity? You mean like arts and crafts?

 

[PaulDupre]

But wait… if they hadn’t been baptized they haven’t known about the Mormon gospel to the full extent… doesn’t 3 Nephi call all Gentiles to repent even from murder?

Yes he does, and the bible is clear that all sin can be forgiven:

Jeremiah 33:8
And I will cleanse them from all their iniquity, whereby they have sinned against me; and** I will pardon all their iniquities**, whereby they have sinned, and whereby they have transgressed against me.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and** the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin**.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Just another instance of Mormonism disagreeing with the bible.

 

[Janet1983]

Janet1983:

There is something you and your husband can do to help ensure baptisms and other temple rites are not performed by proxy after your death. Any of your relatives can take these steps.

You can each write letters to Member Records Division, LDS Church. It is best to have the letters notarized, send via Priority Mail—with a Delivery Confirmation request, and send to the following address:

Member Records Division, LDS Church
50 E North Temple Rm 1372
SLC UT 84150-5310

I gave a sample letter in my Post #338.

I will post it again-next post.

Anna

Continued–next post

The thing is this:
We’re miles and miles away from my side of the family and most of his family is in the church… Should we both die his father would be taking care of everything… How could we possibly prevent them from doing anything? We couldn’t… they are our immediate family and the church won’t keep them from doing anything “for” us. It is a reality that there is nothing that could be done to effectively prevent this.

 

[Janet1983]

Anna Scott,
Was it you or someone else who posted exactly the same story with exactly the same words a couple of months ago on this website? It would come across as more believable if you would at least change some of the words rather than use exactly the same content with no variation. Do you have it memorized?

She told her story before and she did what every person with at least half a brain would do: Go back to the other thread, copy and paste…
Since when was it your business to declare whether someone’s story is true or not?

 

[amontoya]

If you are an LDS style trinitarian, that is, believing that the Three are equal in purpose, intent, and that quality of ‘godhead,’ then this is even more true; different Beings, different responsibilities.

What is “that quality of godhead?”

What of those who never get to HEAR Him?

John 15:22, “If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.”
People will be judged according to their response to the knowledge they had of God’s law and His call. They will not be judged by what they couldn’t know.

Or if they hear the words, never actually get to LISTEN?

Matthew 13:19, “When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path.”

 

[ParkerD]

Creative activity? You mean like arts and crafts?

Hi, Amontoya,
Maybe they’ll be able to create live unicorns on some distant planet somewhere, or take care of them. Did you read the recent news that current science thinks there are a great many planets in a great many solar systems with potential conditions for life on them? (Seriously, the mind of humankind thrives with creative activity, and all that is for a purpose that can be a good purpose if people use such potential in a positive way. Going to heaven means to thrive, and it will mean to do something with our time and our minds (even in the Telestial kingdom) besides singing Gregorian chants all day long.

 

[Anna_Scott]

The thing is this:
We’re miles and miles away from my side of the family and most of his family is in the church… Should we both die his father would be taking care of everything… How could we possibly prevent them from doing anything? We couldn’t… they are our immediate family and the church won’t keep them from doing anything “for” us. It is a reality that there is nothing that could be done to effectively prevent this.

Janet:

I really feel for you.

How tragic that the Mormon church has so much authority, or perhaps intimidation is a better word, as to cause you to feel there is nothing to keep them from performing proxy baptism or other rites, for you after your death.

You may not be able to control what is done for other family members, but you and your husband can write a letter to prevent any proxy work done in your names. I gave that info a few posts back.

Janet, I see you are in a very difficult situation. I will pray for you. It’s just all so disturbing. I can see how you would feel there is no way out of this.

May God’s protection and the discernment of the Holy Spirit be upon you and your family,

Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

A Mormon bishop and his wife were my neighbors, before my divorce. I had known them for years. I admired the strength of their family. The bishop seemed like the father I never had. So, after my divorce, they invited me to their church. For weeks, I took lessons at the bishop’s home- with the Mormon Bishop and two Mormon missionaries. . . .

Anna Scott,
Was it you or someone else who posted exactly the same story with exactly the same words a couple of months ago on this website? It would come across as more believable if you would at least change some of the words rather than use exactly the same content with no variation. Do you have it memorized?

It is my story. I have posted it a number of times. It sounds the same, because it is easier to do a “cut and Paste,” than to keep rewriting the experience.

I first posted it to Finrock in Post #616, Jun 14, '09, 9:48 am:

**Thread: **What do you think is the biggest obstacle to unity between Catholic Christians and non–Catholic Christians?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=5324407#post5324407

I think I confused whether Kolob is a star or planet–same idea either way.

She told her story before and she did what every person with at least half a brain would do: Go back to the other thread, copy and paste…
Since when was it your business to declare whether someone’s story is true or not?

Janet:

Thank you for the supportive comment.

I have seen similar responses on the Forums. If the LDS Members cannot explain something away, or justify the actions of the LDS Church, they try to discredit the person who posts the unfavorable truths.

Anna

 

[Janet1983]

Janet:

I really feel for you.

How tragic that the Mormon church has so much authority, or perhaps intimidation is a better word, as to cause you to feel there is nothing to keep them from performing proxy baptism or other rites, for you after your death.

You may not be able to control what is done for other family members, but you and your husband can write a letter to prevent any proxy work done in your names. I gave that info a few posts back.

Janet, I see you are in a very difficult situation. I will pray for you. It’s just all so disturbing. I can see how you would feel there is no way out of this.

May God’s protection and the discernment of the Holy Spirit be upon you and your family,

Anna

Well I could legally bind them, but to what effect? Who would watch them and make sure it doesn’t happen? Nobody would, because my parents and siblings live on another continent and it wouldn’t make sense to split the family over this issue over here either.
I know one thing for sure however: They cannot do anything to me. While I am alive they won’t do it and once I am with the Lord, they cannot do anything anyways that would affect me. The ones who know me know better than to assume that I’d ever join the LDS church.
They cannot change the course of history and they will not. In the end the Family Group Record will always state that I did not receive anything during my lifetime.
The LDS church cannot harm me in any way and that is why I am not bothered too much by this. I’ve had people talk about me all my life, some things true some things not… I never was a Mormon and I never will be and even if a member of my family down the line of generations thinks she is doing me a great favor by going through all this as a proxy… well so be it. I can’t change that, but they can’t change me either.

 

[Janet1983]

Janet:

Thank you for the supportive comment.

I have seen similar responses on the Forums. If the LDS Members cannot explain something away, or justify the actions of the LDS Church, they try to discredit the person who posts the unfavorable truths.

Anna

You’re welcome.
By the way… that’s not typical LDS behavior… that’s typical human behavior…
I recently read the Catholic Encyclopedia article on Martin Luther… They tried to be neutral…
When I hear critics on creation science the first thing that evolutionary scientists try to do is not attack the theory, but attack the creation scientists persona.
People are easier targets I guess… and it seems we’re all shooting with live rounds…

 

[mjf001]

As long as you guys keep misrepresenting this as ‘being subjected to’ as if the person for whom the work is done has no choice in the matter, we will never come to an agreement on the issue. Nobody is subjected to anything. "subjected,’ according to the dictionary, means “forced sumission to control by others.”

Not to sound like a broken record or anything, but from the Catholic point of view there is no choice. On death a person’s will becomes fixed, then comes judgment. At that point a person will go one of two places, heaven or hell. If they are heaven bound, but still have some attachment to sin, or have the temporal consequences of sin which needs to be taken care of, there will be a stop in purgatory on the way to heaven.

So, you see, this “baptism” has no effect. You can’t offer someone a choice when there is no choice to be had.

Michael

 

[ParkerD]

Janet:

Thank you for the supportive comment.

I have seen similar responses on the Forums. If the LDS Members cannot explain something away, or justify the actions of the LDS Church, they try to discredit the person who posts the unfavorable truths.

Anna

Anna,
I didn’'t believe the story either time I read it. I still don’t. It just does not match the reality of what happens in LDS ward meetings nor what a child would say about their beliefs.

 

[kimmielittle]

If you show such disregard / disrespect of the living…what can we expect toward the memories of our dead?

 

[ParkerD]

If you show such disregard / disrespect of the living…what can we expect toward the memories of our dead?

Kimmie,
Fortunately, in the spirit world our memories will be intact and there will be no selective memory loss nor selective memory “gain”. We will remember our words, our thoughts, and our interactions with others in their exact detail without all of the emotional interplay in this world that causes that two people can be in the very same place hearing or seeing the very same events and yet describe the events totally differently because of their frame of reference or their selective memory of the experience.

 

[twopekinguys]

OK, I have a couple of questions for our mormon friends on here.

The biggest responses that we keep hearing regarding this baptism of the dead is, “It is an offer”, and “They are free to accept or reject it”, and “It doesn’t make them mormon”.

With that being said, please answer these questions as briefly as possible if you would.

1. All of these baptisms and sealings are done only at temples, and not at local meeting houses correct?
2. The mormon church spends millions and millions of dollars on temples around the world, obtaining geneology records, maintaining a huge database, etc., all for a maybe? How is that logical?
3. As I understand it, marriage sealings (temple weddings) are only for temple worthy mormons. How can you seal a dead person to a spouse if you aren’t sure they accepted the mormon baptism?

4.These proxy baptisms, etc. can only be done by temple worthy mormons right? 50% +/- of all mormons don’t have temple recommends, so how are all of these baptisms, etc being done by non family members?

 

[Anna_Scott]

Anna,
I didn’'t believe the story either time I read it. I still don’t. It just does not match the reality of what happens in LDS ward meetings nor what a child would say about their beliefs.

You proved my point ParkerD. You must attempt to discredit me to prevent people from hearing the truth about the LDS Church.

So, now you resort to calling me a liar. That is really very sad.

Anna

 

[twopekinguys]

You proved my point ParkerD. You must attempt to discredit me to prevent people from hearing the truth about the LDS Church.

So, now you resort to calling me a liar. That is really very sad.

Anna

It’s a common tactic.

 

[cmdtenor]

The wacky but lovable Mormons. They’ll baptize anyone, dead or alive.

(I guess this will invalidate my Temple recommend?)

I guess I really do not care what they do. It is part of their belief system that this means something so I see no harm. I also see no benefit, but I would not expect anyone to be untrue to what they believe.

The problem with heretics is they believe their heresy is orthodoxy. We must remain charitable, but must not chaulk any heresy off as “no harm done”. While this may seem to be novel to some, there is a false doctrine at the root and therefore this harms us all.

A more blatant example would be from those parties faithful to the promotion of the Culture of Death. Abortion, euthanasia, embryonic stem cell research, in-vitro fertilization, contraception, etc., are all part of their belief system and they are definately true to what they believe also.

The good news is that their baptism of the dead is not a valid form of baptism, their records may be accurate but are illicit and meaningless. There is no effect on the soul if a person is “baptized” in this manner, only the souls of those persons involved in the heresy are in danger as this practice is gravely immoral. Since they can’t force conversion on the living, they attempt to force the conversion of the dead. Thanks be to God that it doesn’t work that way.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Well I could legally bind them, but to what effect? Who would watch them and make sure it doesn’t happen? Nobody would, because my parents and siblings live on another continent and it wouldn’t make sense to split the family over this issue over here either.

I know one thing for sure however: They cannot do anything to me. While I am alive they won’t do it and once I am with the Lord, they cannot do anything anyways that would affect me. The ones who know me know better than to assume that I’d ever join the LDS church.

They cannot change the course of history and they will not. In the end the Family Group Record will always state that I did not receive anything during my lifetime.

The LDS church cannot harm me in any way and that is why I am not bothered too much by this. I’ve had people talk about me all my life, some things true some things not… I never was a Mormon and I never will be and even if a member of my family down the line of generations thinks she is doing me a great favor by going through all this as a proxy… well so be it. I can’t change that, but they can’t change me either.

Janet:

I understand what you are saying. You are right in asking, “Who would watch them and make sure it doesn’t happen?”

I talked to my sister about the letter I am working on to try to prevent any proxy work being done for me after my death. She asked the same question–who would check to make sure? How could I know for sure the LDS church wouldn’t perform the proxy rites anyway?

Unfortunately, the LDS shows so little respect for others, they may perform the proxy temple work, even with a letter from me clearly stating none is to be done after my death.

You’re welcome.
By the way… that’s not typical LDS behavior… that’s typical human behavior…
I recently read the Catholic Encyclopedia article on Martin Luther… They tried to be neutral…

Janet:

I think you are probably right on this too.

However, here at CAF, I’ve never had anyone, other than LDS Members, call me a liar, or question the truthfulness of my posts.

In Christ,
Anna