My apologies. The Proclaimation is not what tells us of the command to pray to the father, that is in the scriptures. I linked the Proclaimation to show that we do acknowledge Heavenly Parents.While this is an admirable proclamation in support of marriage and family, I don’t see where it directs LDS members to pray only to the Father in the name of Jesus Christ. It does acknowledge heavenly parents, but it doesn’t seem to go any further than that, as far as I could tell.
Is there another LDS Church document that speaks more directly to the questions I raised in the OP? Any help would be appreciated.
Peace,
Robert
Javl, I believe that our Church teaches that God is not a sexual being. God is neither male nor female, rather He is pure divine spirit. Jesus became a man through the incarnation and yes, he referred to God as His Father but this is not in the sense of maleness, but rather relationship. We must use human language in order to communicate and it does get difficult when speaking of the Almighty God. God the Father has the attribute of a male in that life proceeds from Him, but has attributes of a female as well in that He nurtures us, God is infinitely higher above our sexuality than we are above an amoeba’s.I agree with you that God, the Father, is male. So is the Holy Spirit. a
Thanks for your explanation Fly. Have you considered that the reason God made us male and female was for the purpose of procreation. There is absolutely no need for male and female unless procreation is involved. If you do not believe that procreative actions are used by God then why would you believe God would need to be distinguished as either male or female? Sexuality becomes a moot point when one has the ability to create. The fact that “Heavenly Parents” are a part of Mormon doctrine implies that they do procreate, that it requires a male god and a female god. Can you imagine a God with such creative abilities that He can just will something into existence?My apologies. The Proclaimation is not what tells us of the command to pray to the father, that is in the scriptures. I linked the Proclaimation to show that we do acknowledge Heavenly Parents.
The most prominent scripture is right before the Lord’s Prayer:
Matthew 6
6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
Many critics assume that since we believe we are spiritual children of our Father in Heaven, that physical pro-creative actions are used. We don’t know how spirit children are “born”, but I do not believe spirit children are “born” using physical means.
I believe God made us maled and female because gender is part of our being, outside of pro-creation.Thanks for your explanation Fly. Have you considered that the reason God made us male and female was for the purpose of procreation. There is absolutely no need for male and female unless procreation is involved. If you do not believe that procreative actions are used by God then why would you believe God would need to be distinguished as either male or female? Sexuality becomes a moot point when one has the ability to create. The fact that “Heavenly Parents” are a part of Mormon doctrine implies that they do procreate, that it requires a male god and a female god. Can you imagine a God with such creative abilities that He can just will something into existence?
I understand this is what you believe.The human family is made in the image of God in that it images the Holy Trinity. The two become one and the love between the two results in a third, a very real person. This is the Holy Trinity. God, from eternity, is a family; Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The three divine Persons have been in this relationship from eternity, without beginning and without end. It is a mistake to believe that being made in God’s image means that we can basically look in a mirror (male and female) and then assume that God must be like us in all ways because He made us in His image. When we go down that road, we end up making God in our image instead.
God bless.
LDS do not believe that we are making God in our image. Instead, we believe that we are in the image of God, and that we look like God because that is what He has revealed.It is a mistake to believe that being made in God’s image means that we can basically look in a mirror (male and female) and then assume that God must be like us in all ways because He made us in His image. When we go down that road, we end up making God in our image instead.
God bless.
LDS do not know much about Heavenly Mother. We believe that we are only to offer prayers to God the Father. We do not believe that she can intercede for us, as only Jesus Christ is our mediator.Hello all;
My understanding is that there is LDS doctrine that God the Heavenly Father propagated each of us with a Heavenly Mother who is also a divine being, and that we all existed in a pre-mortal state, with these two divine beings as their literal offspring.
Assuming my general understanding is correct, why do LDS members not offer prayers to their divine Heavenly Mother as well as their divine Heavenly Father? If you do, then why do we not hear more about this? Do you believe she can intercede for you? Does she have a name? What do you know about her? A very interesting notion indeed. While I do not ascribe to it, I would certainly like to know more about what LDS members do believe about their Heavenly Mother.
Peace,
Robert
So, Mormons think the pagan worship of Asherah supports a mother goddess?LDS do not know much about Heavenly Mother. We believe that we are only to offer prayers to God the Father. We do not believe that she can intercede for us, as only Jesus Christ is our mediator.
Perhaps this article will be helpful for you:
fairlds.org/pubs/MotherInHeaven.pdf
Well I would agree that male and female genders are part of our being, because this is how we were created. We were created to be in relationship, the fruit of that relationship being new life. We are pro-creating, cooperating in God’s creation. While our gender makes us who we are (part of our being) it is, nevertheless, necessarily linked to sexuality for the purpose of producing new life. The concept of “Heavenly Mother”, by its very nature, implies that Heavenly Father is dependent upon “Heavenly Mother” in order to produce children, whether in a sexual sense or in a spiritual sense. It also implies yet another god, or goddess. I believe that God is not dependent upon anyone or anything in order to create.I believe God made us maled and female because gender is part of our being, outside of pro-creation.
Yes, as I said above, God created us in His image, that is “relationship”. You are quite correct that He could have made us any way He wished. He chose to make us in His image, as persons who are in life-giving relationship with each other, just like the Trinity. Gender, however, is inextricably linked to sexuality, regardless of its other wonderful attributes. “Heavenly Mother”, then, implies sexuality. That is the problem with the concept. Because there is only one God, He cannot be limited by gender.There are animals on this planet that have no need of male/female reproduction. I think God could have made us to reproduce without gender.
Again, LDS are not hung up on sexuality being required for God to create children. I believe spirit children are brought about through spiritual means…It is not LDS that require God to be sexual to have children, it is critics that come up with it, then try to assign that belief to us.
No, Fly, it is when you imagine God the Father as having a body of flesh and boneI understand this is what you believe.
I find it interesting that when we state that we are in the express image and likeness of God, people turn around and tell us we are making God in our image.
We do not make God in our image, we know we are in the image of God.
If we read the article, we can see that ancient Hebrews believed that El was married to Asherah, and Asherah themes can be found in the Old Testament, as well as the eventual conflation of Asherah with Wisdom. The conclusion to the article sums up the author’s thoughts nicely:So, Mormons think the pagan worship of Asherah supports a mother goddess?
No, we aren’t. We believe that God is embodied, and therefore, when the Bible states that we are made in the image and likeness of God, that means that we are embodied like Him. We see this meaning of “image and likeness” again in Genesis 5:3.No, Fly, it is when you imagine God the Father as having a body of flesh and bone
just like us and believe that God the Father has a wife, that we say that you are making God in your image.
I’m not seeing a distinction.If we read the article, we can see that ancient Hebrews believed that El was married to Asherah, and Asherah themes can be found in the Old Testament, as well as the eventual conflation of Asherah with Wisdom. The conclusion to the article sums up the author’s thoughts nicely:
**
"We should be clear that we do not believe in a Mother in Heaven just because of the 20th century scholarship concerning the Israelite Goddess. The vast majority of Latter-day Saints have never even heard of Asherah and do not know that this scholarship exists. Our believe in a Heavenly Mother is based directly on the teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. We do, however, see the recent Asherah scholarship as supporting this principle as taught by the Prophet.
We should also be clear that we in no way would support the idolatrous practices that came over time to be associated with the worship of the Goddess. The growth of such idolatrous practices made it necessary for the deuteronomic reformers to suppress her worship. This suppression then led to non-idolatrous variations on her veneration, such as the personified Lady Wisdom of Proverbs 1-9. As a matter of formal practice, Latter-day Saints do not have any specific ritual directed to our Heavenly Mother."**
Again, you are the one that insists on sexuality and then blames us for it. LDS do not mandate that gender must always be linked with sexuality. I can be male without being sexual, and I believe God has that capability too…I don’t limit Him by gender, but it seems like you do.Well I would agree that male and female genders are part of our being, because this is how we were created. We were created to be in relationship, the fruit of that relationship being new life. We are pro-creating, cooperating in God’s creation. While our gender makes us who we are (part of our being) it is, nevertheless, necessarily linked to sexuality for the purpose of producing new life. The concept of “Heavenly Mother”, by its very nature, implies that Heavenly Father is dependent upon “Heavenly Mother” in order to produce children, whether in a sexual sense or in a spiritual sense. It also implies yet another god, or goddess. I believe that God is not dependent upon anyone or anything in order to create.
Yes, as I said above, God created us in His image, that is “relationship”. You are quite correct that He could have made us any way He wished. He chose to make us in His image, as persons who are in life-giving relationship with each other, just like the Trinity. Gender, however, is inextricably linked to sexuality, regardless of its other wonderful attributes. “Heavenly Mother”, then, implies sexuality. That is the problem with the concept. Because there is only one God, He cannot be limited by gender.
Okay, remove the word “express” and we still have:No, Fly, it is when you imagine God the Father as having a body of flesh and bone
just like us and believe that God the Father has a wife, that we say that you are making God in your image. Neither creation account says we are made in the express image and likeness of God. God is not made of clay, as we are. We were created in the “divine image”. The divine image is the Trinity.
¶And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
The scriptures very cleary state that we are made in Their image, and our image is after Their likeness.27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Between what?I’m not seeing a distinction.
Yes, God led the Israelites out of idolatrous practices, practices which the article clearly rejects. What scholars are aware of, and which coheres nicely with LDS belief, is that Divine Council imagery is used throughout the Bible, is found historically in ancient Israelite (especially pre-exilic) belief, and the Deuteronomists were not successful in erasing it from the Biblical record (which I assume you accept as inspired).You do understand that the One True God led Israel out of paganism? Why do Mormons want to return to these false ideas?
Between the Mormon mother goddess and a pagan mother goddess.Between what?
Yes, God led the Israelites out of idolatrous practices, practices which the article clearly rejects. What scholars are aware of, and which coheres nicely with LDS belief, is that Divine Council imagery is used throughout the Bible, is found historically in ancient Israelite (especially pre-exilic) belief, and the Deuteronomists were not successful in erasing it from the Biblical record (which I assume you accept as inspired).
Perhaps you should start off where Israel was ultimately led, to the truth of One God. There is no other. Why do you think Jews are monotheist?Perhaps you should start off with “Origins of Biblical Monotheism” by Mark S. Smith, NYU Hebrew and Judaic Studies.
fly…why do Mormons believe marriage is required for exaltation? …is marriage sexless then? What Mormon believes this or practices it?Again, you are the one that insists on sexuality and then blames us for it. LDS do not mandate that gender must always be linked with sexuality. I can be male without being sexual, and I believe God has that capability too…I don’t limit Him by gender, but it seems like you do.
First of all, welcome to the forum. Its good to have another Mormon point of view.No, we aren’t. We believe that God is embodied, and therefore, when the Bible states that we are made in the image and likeness of God, that means that we are embodied like Him. We see this meaning of “image and likeness” again in Genesis 5:3.
Let me take this in another direction. Is there any way, concerning our nature, that God is unlike us or that we are unlike God?LDS do not limit “image and likeness” to just physical image and likeness, but also agree that this means that we are “like God” in various other ways, such as being rational, love, having free will, etc.
Then you did not read the article given (or the conclusion I previously posted), since distinctions are clearly demonstrated.Between the Mormon mother goddess and a pagan mother goddess.
Again, this goes back to Josiah and Deuteronomist reforms and redactions, and a progression from accepting a plurality of the Divine (with the preeminence/“headship” of El), to the gradual removal of these other divine beings, including their conflation with others, such as El and Wisdom. Again, Divine Council imagery is still found in the Bible, and coheres with LDS theology. Similarly, the “us” in the creation account of Genesis 1:26-27 shows a plurality, which many traditional Christians interpret to be pointing to the Trinity, while the Jews reject such a notion as blasphemous (rejecting any plurality in the Divinity today), and interpret it as a “royal we” idea.Perhaps you should start off where Israel was ultimately led, to the truth of One God. There is no other. Why do you think Jews are monotheist?
Margaret Barker, in “The Great Angel: A Study of Israel’s Second God”, states:I’m curious about these “deuteronomists” …what were they erasing and why?