LDS Belief's ... Who Determines the Truth?

[Nicea325]

Hard to be a part of a Church where truth is a moving target…

More like stealth mode…hard to detect. Cannot tell if it is coming or going (i.e., Mormon teachings/doctrines)

 

[SteveVH]

Many of the quotes detailing the location of the hill Cumorah were taken from talks given in General Conference. If Mormons now dismiss those pronouncements as mere opinion, then why would any LDS ever bother to attend General Conference? Why would they ever want to bother listening to what their prophets and apostles say? It’s all just some guy’s personal opinion.

No wonder the LDS Church is hemoraging members.

One would think that being a “prophet” would be a full time job. I can’t think of any prophet that was not held to every word he said. We were asked about our Pope, if everything he said was to be taken as doctrine. And here is the difference. The Pope is held to every word he utters. It is a full time gig, 24/7, and he is held to the highest standard at all times. We don’t have to wonder if what he is saying is doctrine because we know that he is never going to give us a new doctrine. What we do know is that when he speaks we hear the truth and we never have to wonder if he is going to back peddle.

 

[Bokonon9]

One would think that being a “prophet” would be a full time job. I can’t think of any prophet that was not held to every word he said. We were asked about our Pope, if everything he said was to be taken as doctrine. And here is the difference. The Pope is held to every word he utters. It is a full time gig, 24/7, and he is held to the highest standard at all times. We don’t have to wonder if what he is saying is doctrine because we know that he is never going to give us a new doctrine. What we do know is that when he speaks we hear the truth and we never have to wonder if he is going to back peddle.

Absolutely! Man, am I ever grateful to have gotten out of Mormonism and back to the Catholic Church.

 

[SteveVH]

Absolutely! Man, am I ever grateful to have gotten out of Mormonism and back to the Catholic Church.

Just noticed that you are new to CAF. Welcome. How long ago did you leave the LDS?

 

[SteveVH]

The problem with this as I see it is that when LDS are out there proseletysing, they lead the investigator to accept that theirs is the only true church built upon truth direct from God via JS. The bible is at best unreliable, and there is the issue of the great apostasy, that as far as Catholics are concerned never happened. It is this contensious notion that Joseph Smith restored the truth, but now we find that there is this woolly idea that well that might have been true then but not now. In which case, how can the LDS claim that what they are teaching their investigators is true, when it needn’t be accepted as such now. Do you see the dilemma?

Its the difference between guarding the deposit of faith given to us by the Apostles and inventing new stuff as you go along. Its hard to cover your tracks and get your story right when it keeps changing over the years and conflicting with what was said before. They really have no choice but to consider the words of their prophet as just opinion when it conflicts with what they are told to believe now.

The controversial remarks with which we take exception did not come from listening to Joseph Smith or Brigham Young at the dinner table. They were written down or given in a public speech with people there to transcribe their words. If they don’t believe him now, what in the world do they think he was talking about then? I’m trying to imagine hearing our Pope give a speech and thinking “don’t take this seriously folks, he’s just giving us his opinion”. We hang on every word our Pope utters because we know it will never contradict our doctrines, rather it will make them come more alive.

 

[kimg901]

Of course not everything that comes out of the mouth of any human being is considered doctrine by the church. You don’t stop being human or having your own opinions just because you are called into a position in any church.

I’m sure someone has the source of this quote, but our take on things is a prophet is only a prophet when speaking things revealed to him by the Holy Ghost.

I’m interested: Is every word that comes from Pope Francis, every homily, every time he is interviewed by a journalist, every private conversation he has - is all of that considered infallible scripture to Catholics?

If yes, I can see why you’d think LDS are odd to accept some things and look at other things as personal opinion.

If no, why pick on mormons for something you do yourself?

So you and every other mormon cannot believe what God is telling your prophets which in turn is told to you? And for the Pope, if he is speaking of the Church and Church teachings, then its infallible. But if he is being interviewed and just b.s.ing with the reporter on anything other than Church teachings, then his is just like you and me.

 

[Porknpie]

From post #1, these words are still confusing to me.

Only new revelation following proper procedure, and being accepted by the Church as a whole as binding can clear up this point

What is “proper procedure” and “accepted by the Church as a whole”.

In the case of Hill Cumorah, very clearly the LDS Church has taught…and not simply speculated…that Cumorah NY was the physical site of this ancient battle. The LDS Church taught such as Joseph Smith said it was.

And is this logic accurate from an LDS viewpoint?

Joseph Smith told (tells) all the Truth >
The LDS Church Believes Joseph Smith
** Therefore, The LDS Church tells all Truth

If the premise is not true (JS tells all Truth), then the conclusion “the LDS Church tells all Truth” is not true either.

And if one can not believe Joseph Smith told all Truth, then neither can we believe him on anything else, including an angel from God visiting him, the gold tablets etc,… and the Church having an apostasy and needing to be restored.

What you think?

 

[TexanKnight]

From post #1, these words are still confusing to me.

What is “proper procedure” and “accepted by the Church as a whole”.

In the case of Hill Cumorah, very clearly the LDS Church has taught…and not simply speculated…that Cumorah NY was the physical site of this ancient battle. The LDS Church taught such as Joseph Smith said it was.

And is this logic accurate from an LDS viewpoint?

Joseph Smith told (tells) all the Truth >
The LDS Church Believes Joseph Smith
** Therefore, The LDS Church tells all Truth

If the premise is not true (JS tells all Truth), then the conclusion “the LDS Church tells all Truth” is not true either.

And if one can not believe Joseph Smith told all Truth, then neither can we believe him on anything else, including an angel from God visiting him, the gold tablets etc,… and the Church having an apostasy and needing to be restored.

What you think?

Wont work.

When js said something they like and can accept, then he was speaking doctrine and truth

on the many times it has been proven js lied, he was just speaking off the record and can’t be bound by that

 

[debbie_h]

Absolutely! Man, am I ever grateful to have gotten out of Mormonism and back to the Catholic Church.

From a former mormon to another, Welcome home!

 

[aemcpa]

on the many times it has been proven js lied, he was just speaking off the record and can’t be bound by that

Or God has revealed a “new truth” through the Prophet du jour. We just didn’t understand what Joseph Smith was really saying.

 

[SteveVH]

Wont work.

When js said something they like and can accept, then he was speaking doctrine and truth

on the many times it has been proven js lied, he was just speaking off the record and can’t be bound by that

Yes, that seems to be the standard default position. It’s difficult to imagine living with such uncertainty when it comes to something as important as one’s eternal destiny. It is also why I fall deeper in love with my Church every day. I have certainty through both faith and reason that what I am being taught is actually what was taught by Christ to the Apostles.

Can you imagine what would happen to our Church if the Pope made any comment, at any time, whether public or private, that conflicted with doctrine? I can’t.

 

[kimg901]

Why does the mormon church have to vote on a revelation with its members to see if its good? If these are “true revelations from God” why not say “This is what God has spoken, we will follow His Words” Are they not “true prophets”?