LDS Church position on illegal immigration is same as mine

[BartBurk]

I just read the LDS Church’s position on illegal immigration:

newsroom.lds.org/article/immigration-church-issues-new-statement:

Around the world, debate on the immigration question has become intense. That is especially so in the United States. Most Americans agree that the federal government of the United States should secure its borders and sharply reduce or eliminate the flow of undocumented immigrants. Unchecked and unregulated, such a flow may destabilize society and ultimately become unsustainable.

As a matter of policy, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints discourages its members from entering any country without legal documentation, and from deliberately overstaying legal travel visas.

What to do with the estimated 12 million undocumented immigrants now residing in various states within the United States is the biggest challenge in the immigration debate. The bedrock moral issue for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is how we treat each other as children of God.

The history of mass expulsion or mistreatment of individuals or families is cause for concern especially where race, culture, or religion are involved. This should give pause to any policy that contemplates targeting any one group, particularly if that group comes mostly from one heritage.

As those on all sides of the immigration debate in the United States have noted, this issue is one that must ultimately be resolved by the federal government.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is concerned that any state legislation that only contains enforcement provisions is likely to fall short of the high moral standard of treating each other as children of God.

**The Church supports an approach where undocumented immigrants are allowed to square themselves with the law and continue to work without this necessarily leading to citizenship. **

In furtherance of needed immigration reform in the United States, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints supports a balanced and civil approach to a challenging problem, fully consistent with its tradition of compassion, its reverence for family, and its commitment to law.

I have bolded the part that is my position. I don’t believe people who entered this country illegally should ever be given citizenship, but they should be allowed get proper documentation and keep working. I was surprised this morning when I read the LDS Church’s position and it was exactly the same as mine. The Catholic Church seems to be much the same, but is more committed to giving illegal immigrants a path to citizenship. That would be completely wrong in my view. I don’t know how other churches feel about it.

 

[CompSciGuy]

I guess in terms of legality, yes, it is a bad thing but I think all factors need to be considered. This is, I think, less of a legal issue and more of a human issue. I think that, if I were living in a place like Juarez, Mexico and there were so many drug lords cruising around the streets and my children couldn’t play outside without being in danger of getting hit by loose bullets I sort of wonder if I wouldn’t cross the border illegally myself. Getting citizenship can take an awfully long time.

 

[Corki]

I just read the LDS Church’s position on illegal immigration:

newsroom.lds.org/article/immigration-church-issues-new-statement:

I have bolded the part that is my position. I don’t believe people who entered this country illegally should ever be given citizenship, but they should be allowed get proper documentation and keep working. I was surprised this morning when I read the LDS Church’s position and it was exactly the same as mine. The Catholic Church seems to be much the same, but is more committed to giving illegal immigrants a path to citizenship. That would be completely wrong in my view. I don’t know how other churches feel about it.

This is one of my problems with the so-called immigration reforms being discussed that include a fast track to citizenship. They reward people who entered illegally by letting them jump to the front of the line, a line many people are patiently and legally waiting in for years. I used to work for a company that had quite a few workers on visas. We would occassionally sponsor them for permanent residency. If one of those workers was found to have ever entered illegally or to have overstayed a visa, they were denied residency and, in one case, permanently banned from entry even though they had current legal status and a sponsor.

Why should immigrants who have never been here legally get treated preferrentially compared to workers who made one mistake years ago and have entered and worked legallly 99% of the time?

 

[DKconvert2006]

My main problem with the issue of immigration concerns the children of illegal immigrants who were too young to know they had entered illegally. I know one young man who was shocked to discover he came to this country illegally as a toddler. His parents never told him until he was in high school. They would never let him participate in sports for fear that they would be discovered. He has no memories of living anywhere but the USA. What happens to him?

 

[BartBurk]

My main problem with the issue of immigration concerns the children of illegal immigrants who were too young to know they had entered illegally. I know one young man who was shocked to discover he came to this country illegally as a toddler. His parents never told him until he was in high school. They would never let him participate in sports for fear that they would be discovered. He has no memories of living anywhere but the USA. What happens to him?

Let him become a legal resident, but never give him citizenship.

 

[JHow]

I just read the LDS Church’s position on illegal immigration…

You didn’t have this guy in mind, by any chance?

bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1362374

 

[BartBurk]

You didn’t have this guy in mind, by any chance?

bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1362374

I didn’t, but there are worse cases. An illegal alien here in Elkhart just assaulted two women, murdered a father and two sons and appears to have burned himself up in a car fire. And he had already been arrested and wasn’t deported before because they are afraid to check into the status of illegals in Elkhart County lest they be accused of discrimination.

 

[Stephen168]

Let him become a legal resident, but never give him citizenship.

If this correctly reflects the Mormon Church’s view of immigration, the Mormon Church’s view of immigration conflicts with its own view of sin.

 

[amber_lux]

DKconvert2006;:

What happens to him?

He gets dumped in a country whose official language he might not speak.

I rather like the Libertarian Party solution to illegal immigration.
No quota system. A simple US$5,000 immigration fee, payable at the border post, that allows one to stay for as long as one desires. A fee that is imposed upon all visitors.

Amber

 

[catholic-rcia]

I have sinned against my Lord, therefore I should never see heaven. But can I continue to live here on earth until the end of my life.

Is this what you are saying as a Catholic?

My wife is Canadian. Her sister and brother in law wanted to move to America so he could work with me. So they could live in this country. They told them they would have to wait for up to twelve years. They contemplated coming anyway as this was where their heart was. They stayed in Canada.

The American dream how ever that pans out for you should not stand with a lock and key. The reason we have so many illegal’s is because it’s to hard to come here legally. Anyone should be able to come to America as long as they are not a threat to the very freedom they are seeking. (Anyone) This would be the right thing to do. Anyone seeking a better life for their family is already an American.

If you took me away today, turned me into a Latino and placed me and my family in Latin America I would be the first one over that fence. I would be claiming what is rightfully mine as a Latino (a better life). It is the laws that our wrong not the will of these good people.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

Make employee laws so strict that they’ll self-deport, take soldiers from Afghanistan (a useless war) and use them to guard the border.

That’s the solution.

 

[BartBurk]

I have sinned against my Lord, therefore I should never see heaven. But can I continue to live here on earth until the end of my life.

Is this what you are saying as a Catholic?

My wife is Canadian. Her sister and brother in law wanted to move to America so he could work with me. So they could live in this country. They told them they would have to wait for up to twelve years. They contemplated coming anyway as this was where their heart was. They stayed in Canada.

The American dream how ever that pans out for you should not stand with a lock and key. The reason we have so many illegal’s is because it’s to hard to come here legally. Anyone should be able to come to America as long as they are not a threat to the very freedom they are seeking. (Anyone) This would be the right thing to do. Anyone seeking a better life for their family is already an American.

If you took me away today, turned me into a Latino and placed me and my family in Latin America I would be the first one over that fence. I would be claiming what is rightfully mine as a Latino (a better life). It is the laws that our wrong not the will of these good people.

When our ancestors came, there was no welfare state to attract them here. The welfare state makes it impossible for us to absorb large numbers of immigrants whether they are legal or illegal. We can’t afford it. That said we can’t deport twelve million people either, but we need to make it difficult for new ones to come here illegally. I think the LDS position is correct – stop the illegals from coming and don’t let the ones who have gotten here illegally become citizens, but let them work in their current situation. We have to be choosy about who gets into the country because of our welfare system. We can’t afford a lot of low-skilled immigrants especially when we already have high unemployment here.

 

[TimothyH]

I have sinned against my Lord, therefore I should never see heaven. But can I continue to live here on earth until the end of my life.

Is this what you are saying as a Catholic?

My wife is Canadian. Her sister and brother in law wanted to move to America so he could work with me. So they could live in this country. They told them they would have to wait for up to twelve years. They contemplated coming anyway as this was where their heart was. They stayed in Canada.

The American dream how ever that pans out for you should not stand with a lock and key. The reason we have so many illegal’s is because it’s to hard to come here legally. Anyone should be able to come to America as long as they are not a threat to the very freedom they are seeking. (Anyone) This would be the right thing to do. Anyone seeking a better life for their family is already an American.

If you took me away today, turned me into a Latino and placed me and my family in Latin America I would be the first one over that fence. I would be claiming what is rightfully mine as a Latino (a better life). It is the laws that our wrong not the will of these good people.

It is not a sin for any nation to put reasonable safeguards in place to protect the safety of their Citizens.

And your right to a better life does not automatically equate to the right to break the law of any nation you decide stands in your way.

-Tim-

 

[Stephen168]

Once the person breaks the law: should they be punished for the rest of their life or should there be a way to become part of the community?

As Catholics we believe that a sinner can be forgiven for their personal sins, so there should be a way for almost anyone to become a citizen. We also believe in penance, so forgiveness is not easy or automatic.

The Mormon view being given here says there is no forgiveness or reconciliation for the sinner. In fact, there is no forgiveness even if the sin was not committed by you personally. It is my understanding that Mormons don’t believe in reconciliation for sinners so the first part seems consistent with their beliefs. They also make a big deal about not holding people responsible for the sins of others (original sin) yet they would hold a child responsible for the acts of its parents.

 

[BartBurk]

Once the person breaks the law: should they be punished for the rest of their life or should there be a way to become part of the community?

As Catholics we believe that a sinner can be forgiven for their personal sins, so there should be a way for almost anyone to become a citizen. We also believe in penance, so forgiveness is not easy or automatic.

The Mormon view being given here says there is no forgiveness or reconciliation for the sinner. In fact, there is no forgiveness even if the sin was not committed by you personally. It is my understanding that Mormons don’t believe in reconciliation for sinners so the first part seems consistent with their beliefs. They also make a big deal about not holding people responsible for the sins of others (original sin) yet they would hold a child responsible for the acts of its parents.

The sinner is forgiven in the Mormon announcement. They are given green cards and allowed to stay and work indefinitely. They just aren’t allowed to become citizens. So they are granted forgiveness. There is no right to citizenship. You have to qualify. Coming here illegally disqualifies you.

 

[Stephen168]

The sinner is forgiven in the Mormon announcement. They are given green cards and allowed to stay and work indefinitely. They just aren’t allowed to become citizens. So they are granted forgiveness.

You are forgiven but never allowed to receive the Eucharist is not Catholic teaching. Yet it makes sense to Mormons.

There is no right to citizenship. You have to qualify. Coming here illegally disqualifies you.

Like I said

The Mormon view being given here says there is no forgiveness or reconciliation for the sinner… no forgiveness even if the sin was not committed by you personally.

 

[Stephen168]

They also make a big deal about not holding people responsible for the sins of others (original sin) yet they would hold a child responsible for the acts of its parents.

I forgot the Mormon Church does have another teaching about the innocent being guilty due to the acts of their parents, so this could be consistent with the Mormon Church’s teaching on abortion. They announce that human life is sacred unless the parents are sinful (rape and incest) then it is not.

 

[catholic-rcia]

Once the person breaks the law: should they be punished for the rest of their life or should there be a way to become part of the community?

As Catholics we believe that a sinner can be forgiven for their personal sins, so there should be a way for almost anyone to become a citizen. We also believe in penance, so forgiveness is not easy or automatic.

The Mormon view being given here says there is no forgiveness or reconciliation for the sinner. In fact, there is no forgiveness even if the sin was not committed by you personally. It is my understanding that Mormons don’t believe in reconciliation for sinners so the first part seems consistent with their beliefs. They also make a big deal about not holding people responsible for the sins of others (original sin) yet they would hold a child responsible for the acts of its parents.

I could not agree more.

The problem is most can not come here legally. As to the welfare part that Bart mentioned, I have a hard time justifying this as a reason not to let them come here. I am a Conservative Catholic in Utah. I have 4 legal Latinos that work for me. Why? Can’t find anyone else as good as them. Currently not looking. The other day a person said

“I did not recognize you without your Mexicans”

First of all one is from Guatemala, the other Mexico City. The youngest was born and raised here. The other is from Brazil. But I was to busy to stop and correct him.

I see them as I see myself, even the illegal immigrants. I have lived 52 years and not one of them has ever taken my job that I know of. My kids have always had health care and I don’t think they have effected that either. If it did I guess I would have to pay more. Work harder so to speak. Maybe longer hours. Until they get rid of the current system.

As to welfare I don’t subscribe to that. I myself was homeless once and the Church helped my family tremendously. Never went to the Government for help. Not even a thought, but that’s just me. I am sure many illegal’s are the same as me. Some are some are not I suppose. People should be able to immigrate to this country freely. If it busts the system than I see that as a good thing. It was a poor system anyway because it can not help all who are in true need. Plus it gets taken advantage of by Immigrants, illegal immigrants and yes even by those born here. As a matter of fact in my lifetime I have only been in contact with Americans born and raised here taking advantage of the system. I have known several. I am sure some illegal’s are doing it as well but I see them all in the same bag. People are people when you get past the passports and color of the skin. I see a legal American who takes advantage of the system no different than an illegal that would do the same. Now those in true need, I see this clearly. I don’t care who they are I would help!

Our Church Community here in Northern Utah is about 65% Latino. When I am at Mass I could care less if they are legal or not. I am just as legal or illegal as they. The laws need to be changed. Let em come freely. Let them learn about this Country, learn English, become an American. Then if and when the boat sinks I will gladly be in the boat with them. Love those people! Legal or not.

 

[_Abyssinia]

To those that agree with the LDS position on illegal immigration; do you also think there should be no there should be no visa restrictions; those from around the world that want to move to America, should be allowed to work etc. ? As long as they are not ‘citizens?’

If you are not a citizen, what are you? A temporary worker? But they are not going to go back home, are they?

 

[_Abyssinia]

This is one of my problems with the so-called immigration reforms being discussed that include a fast track to citizenship. They reward people who entered illegally by letting them jump to the front of the line, a line many people are patiently and legally waiting in for years. I used to work for a company that had quite a few workers on visas. We would occassionally sponsor them for permanent residency. If one of those workers was found to have ever entered illegally or to have overstayed a visa, they were denied residency and, in one case, permanently banned from entry even though they had current legal status and a sponsor.

Why should immigrants who have never been here legally get treated preferrentially compared to workers who made one mistake years ago and have entered and worked legallly 99% of the time?

Agree. Illegal immigrants who came into America illegaly, who knew it was a crime, for them to be rewarded with citizenship, when some people want to move to America so much, but they don’t fit the visa regulations exactly and can not or have to wait and they can not get citizenship, that is unfair.