LDS Church says it is ok to drink caffeine??

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LivingWaters7 said:
Interesting. You state in one post that you never reached the age where you could be Endowed, yet you say that you were taught to never speak about the temple outside of the temple. Interesting. I and other Latter-day Saints are quite comfortable stating that in baptism for the dead (what you say you have participated in), we wear white, go into the baptismal font, and we are baptized “for and in behalf of” someone who is deceased. We are immersed, and this is then repeated for various other deceased individuals.

As far as secrecy, let’s just say that your comparison is simplistic, and many of the faiths that you list as “respectable” (implying, I assume, that the faith of the Latter-day Saints is not “respectable”) have their share of secrets and/or knowledge that is not readily available to all. There are clear initiatory paths in Buddhism and Hinduism, for a start.

As far as the Endowment, I love going to the temple (I am a Doctor of Pharmacy graduate student, btw, and I am a convert to the Church of Jesus Christ, so I don’t necessarily follow the typical “age” progressions, for what it’s worth), and I especially love participating in the washing and anointing rituals. I love pondering the covenants that I entered into when I received my own Endowment when I attend the temple, especially those related to sacrifice and following the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I love entering the Celestial Room and thinking about what it will be like (after enduring to the end with continuous repentance and reliance on the atonement of Christ of course) to enter into the eternal presence of God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. And of course receiving Divine guidance from God in His House, and feeling His presence there has really made the temples of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints an important part of my life.

Anyway, that is all off-topic. My point was simply to state that I don’t find the temple recommend interviews to be interrogations (you and your mother and whomever else are welcome to their opinions, as I am to mine), and you stated that you were not familiar with the “full” temple recommend interview, so I provided some insight into that. I hope it was helpful.
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You are correct, I was never old enough to received endowment. Heck, I’m still not old enough if I was still a Mormon. But that’s beside the point. We were taught from the beginning that the temple is too sacred to be discussed with anyone, even fellow Mormons, outside of the temple. I think the main reason for this is to keep the happenings secret, but that’s just my opinion. Ah, yes, baptisms for the dead. I was so excited to finally go to the temple for those. And then I would get sick every time because I did around 30-40 water baptisms every time. :eek: The thing that interests me, is why do they confirm you before they baptize you, if you’re dead? For living people, it’s the other way around: baptism then confirmation.

I’m not quite sure what you mean by initiatory paths to Hinduism and Buddhism. There is, quite frankly, no such thing. Hinduism, for one - I can’t speak on behalf of Buddhism at all, does not even have the concept of a religious conversion. In fact, the world Hindu, comes from what the Arabs called people on the other side of the Indus river (located in modern-day Pakistan). It’s really more of a geographical designation than a religious one. But nonetheless, when you say Hinduism, as when I do, I’ll assume you are referring to Sanatana Dharma (the official name of “that” religion). There is no initiation. You just start worshiping the gods. And that’s it. Some people think you can’t follow that path unless you are born in to it, but most are open minded. I think you’re confusing true Sanatana Dharma, which has many different philosophies under one name, with modern, new age cults that claim some sort of relationship with Sanatana Dharma.

I’m glad that you are comfortable with your temple experience.

Oh, I understand what you are trying to say. And I’m sure it varies from Bishop to Bishop (for Priesthood and temporary recommends, you only need to be interviewed by the Bishop - not the Stake President). When I had my “interview” for advancing to the rank of “Teacher”, the Bishop seemed fascinated with whether or not I was engaging in intercourse or providing self pleasure. The other boys had very similar interview questions, and they were equally . . . disturbed.

With all due respect, I suggest that you read the Bible and study Christian & American history. I was, quite honestly, able to disprove Mormonism when I was in an 8th grade Social Studies class. We learned that horses are not native to North America - the Spanish imported them. As I’m sure you know, horses are mention in the Book of Mormon, a supposed record of the native peoples that were here for thousands of years before Columbus and his contemporaries.

I’m sure you are a very honest person that is just trying to be a better human being, but I really do wish the best for you, and I will be praying for you.
 
Zulfiqar said:
Forgive me, but I have gone through multiple priesthood interrogations and temporary temple recommend interrogations.
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I can honestly say I never felt interrogated during a temple recommend interview.

I can also say that it was not uncommon to hear with other ward members that the bishop was more tough on the guys when interviewing them then he was with we women.

It’s possible that any individual bishop may have a different tone when interviewing the men then when he does women. You know, a gender bias.

That I can completely see happening.
 
LivingWaters7 said:
It isn’t an “interrogation”. In the temple recommend interview, one is essentially asked whether they believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, the atonement of Jesus Christ, accept Jesus Christ as our Savior, the Restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Church of Jesus Christ, if they sustain the prophets and apostles, questions related to various commandments, such as the Law of Chastity, Word of Wisdom, Tithing, honoring the covenants you have entered into, if you support those who are against the Church of Jesus Christ, if you are honest, etc. Essentially, the temple recommend interview is about whether one is an active and believing member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
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in orher words…an interrogation
 
Janderich said:
TexanKnight, It is not, and never was doctrine. I have had many temple recommend interviews and the only question that has ever been asked me on this subject is if I keep the Word of Wisdom.
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Perhaps you have. I, too, had many when I was LDS and attneding temples all over the country and the one in Guatemala. I am saying that I was ALWAYS asked.

Even more to the point, I once had some water in coffee cup at the the Mission Headquarters in Honduras. The Mission President chastized me. He said those who watched me would THINK I was drinking caffeine. Told me to “stay away from the appearance of evil.”

Like I said, either another of the plethora of confusing “is it doctrine or not” or another of the changing doctrines that will forever plague the LDS Church and their confusing and onconsistant “prophets”
 
I was told by my LDS friends that it is the Tanic acid in coffee and tea and that is the reason why they are in the words of wisdom. Because of what it does to your body.
I was told it effects your organs, hardens them. ect. like the walls of your coffee pot being stained.
It makes a lot of sense from a healthy life style point of view.
 
TexanKnight said:
in orher words…an interrogation
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A brainwashed person who accepts the interrogator as a person in authority and the questions about one’s personal life as legitimate and important, is still being interrogated.

Taking another POV, police often realize this, and the gentle interrogator often gets better results, generally by acknowledging criminal rationalizations. “So, in the heat of the moment, in the process of the robbery, you accidentally shot him, and he died?” is an example from a recent TV show.
 
I think most of these food proscriptions had a “logical” basis at one time. It might have simply been the expense of transporting coffee and tea that led to the ban. The LDS need room in their wagons for flour and beans.
dchezik said:
Most all food proscriptions of religions are arbitrary or based on some factor that was valid in the murky past. For example, the proscription of pork by Jews and Muslims probably originated (I have no reference for this) from the fact that pigs were often fed table scraps - garbage - that became infested with the Trichina worm. Eating pig infested with these worms led to trichinosis – a chronic incurable disease. Although modern inspection methods have largely eliminated infected pork, many people still insist on cooking it well-done (probably wise for any meat).
I suspect the ban on caffeine for LDS may have come from the Biblical proscription against “strong drink.” Of course Mormons also don’t drink alcoholic beverages which might be classified strong drink.
As an interesting side point, it was said that when fighting Muslims, Patton had his army dipped their bullets in pork fat because Muslims believed that if they were killed by such a bullet they would go straight to hell. It intimidated them, to say the least!
I mean, can you imagine someone rigidly adhering to these arbitrary food proscriptions? Like God really cares if you eat lobsters (another Jewish proscription) or pig or drink coffee? Although I think you can have a rabbi say some words to magically remove the curse, I don’t know if the LDS has any similar practice. Isn’t it amazing the stuff people believe?
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Not to spread more mormon rumors, but I heard that someone once said that Mormon’s allowed people to drink caffeine after they invested some money into Coca Cola back in the 70’s. However I think this is anti-mormon propaganda to an extent.
 
I had a LDS coworker back in the 80’s who told me that he was prohibited. from caffeine. He wouldn’t. touch a cola.
He pointed out how ahead of the times this Doctrine was.
It was kind of impressive.
I was surprised when I retired to the East Valley of Phoenix.
We have a bunch of LDS neighbors. The predominent religion in Mesa and Gilbert
I was surprised that they drank soft drinks and actually are a major shareholder of Pepsico.
 
The temple is one of the driving forces behind my exodus from the LDS Church. Before entering the temple, you need to be deemed worthy by both a bishop and your stake president (for a full use recommend to do all ordinances in the temple). These show the priorities of the LDS. They ask you belief questions regarding LDS doctrine and several commandment questions. The commandment questions are whether or not you keep the law of chastity (sexual purity), the word of wisdom (health code), the law of tithing (money money money), and are honest in your dealings with your fellow man. Mind you, there is not one question about whether or not you love your neighbor or whether or not you feed the hungry and clothe the naked. Apparently, these commandments are not as important to personal worthiness. You can flip someone off on the highway on your way to your interview and still get your recommend.

Finally, The last question always struck me as funny, “Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the House of the Lord?”. I always thought to myself, No, because honestly no fallen human being, no person on earth should ever deem himself worthy of entering into the presence of God which is what the LDS believe happens when you enter into the celestial room. Nothing I do will ever merit entering into the presence of God. I am saved by His sacrifice. This drive for personal worthiness is a staple of the LDS belief. They honestly try to sell a product so they must ensure an army of homogenous super salesman. At BYU for example, the honor code not only makes you dress “modestly” but also has strict rules about not having facial hair and the length of sideburns.

They often will talk down to people that look sloppy or wear jeans to various church services. I like being in a church (Catholic Church) that is full of fallen sinners that recognize what Our Lord has done for us and continues to do for us to this day. I stand up every week at mass and I see people that are struggling and together we all stand up and say, we are sinners, have mercy on us Lord, forgive us our sins and bring us to everlasting life. I know God loves humility more than arrogance and that is what i view the temple recommend process as. Nothing more than the LDS saying that only those of us that are awesome can enter into God’s presence. God’s presence is there for all of us sinners. Spend an hour in Eucharistic adoration and you can feel that presence even though you are a sinner.

Temples in ancient times were used to offer sacrifices to the Lord precisely because people were NOT worthy of His presence but the LDS modified that to say that in modern-day temples, worthiness is a precondition.

As far as caffeine goes, it really depends on the bishop and stake president you get. I have been denied a temple recommend before based on my drinking of Diet Coke. Mind you, my repentence process was only determined by my bishop to be one week of not taking the sacrament, but still. It does happen. Diet Coke can keep you out of the temple (or…umm…presence of God) if your bishop is a hard-liner or if your stake president is a hard-liner. I think it is rare among clergy in the LDS church today but it does happen.
 
Callvenus said:
The temple is one of the driving forces behind my exodus from the LDS Church. Before entering the temple, you need to be deemed worthy by both a bishop and your stake president (for a full use recommend to do all ordinances in the temple). These show the priorities of the LDS. They ask you belief questions regarding LDS doctrine and several commandment questions. The commandment questions are whether or not you keep the law of chastity (sexual purity), the word of wisdom (health code), the law of tithing (money money money), and are honest in your dealings with your fellow man. Mind you, there is not one question about whether or not you love your neighbor or whether or not you feed the hungry and clothe the naked. Apparently, these commandments are not as important to personal worthiness. You can flip someone off on the highway on your way to your interview and still get your recommend.
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The questions asked in a temple recommend interview not only ask whether one is following the specific commandments of the Law of Chastity, the Word of Wisdom, and the Law of Tithing (I assume you would not refer to the Biblical practice of tithing as “money money money”), but also whether one is living their life in harmony with the commandments of the Gospel. This naturally includes how we relate to our fellow man (being in service to our fellow man is of course an emphasis in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as is loving our neighbor). One who has a firm testimony of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, and of the Restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ naturally not only cares about themselves, but their fellow man as well.
Finally, The last question always struck me as funny, “Do you consider yourself worthy to enter the House of the Lord?”. I always thought to myself, No, because honestly no fallen human being, no person on earth should ever deem himself worthy of entering into the presence of God which is what the LDS believe happens when you enter into the celestial room. Nothing I do will ever merit entering into the presence of God. I am saved by His sacrifice. This drive for personal worthiness is a staple of the LDS belief. They honestly try to sell a product so they must ensure an army of homogenous super salesman. At BYU for example, the honor code not only makes you dress “modestly” but also has strict rules about not having facial hair and the length of sideburns.
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With worthiness, Latter-day Saints do not believe that after we examine ourselves, we declare ourselves perfect, or sinless. Instead, we examine ourselves and determine that yes, we are living our lives in harmony with Christ’s commandments, and strive to endure to the end through repentance made possible by the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. We are saved by faith and works, and God asks for our participation by following His commandments. Latter-day Saints do not believe that we can save ourselves.

As a parallel, it is interesting that many Christian churches cite 1 Corinthians 11:27 in relation to the Eucharist/Communion (whether or not they believe in the Real Presence or some other Eucharistic view). It states:
“Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.”***

From this, it is stated that one should not participate in the Eucharist/Communion in an unworthy state, because, if you participate unworthily, according to this verse, you will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. This is frequently stated as being in a state of mortal sin. The contrast of course is that, if one is not to participate unworthily, one should participate worthily. There is clear Biblical precedent for the concept of worthiness.
They often will talk down to people that look sloppy or wear jeans to various church services. I like being in a church (Catholic Church) that is full of fallen sinners that recognize what Our Lord has done for us and continues to do for us to this day. I stand up every week at mass and I see people that are struggling and together we all stand up and say, we are sinners, have mercy on us Lord, forgive us our sins and bring us to everlasting life. I know God loves humility more than arrogance and that is what i view the temple recommend process as. Nothing more than the LDS saying that only those of us that are awesome can enter into God’s presence. God’s presence is there for all of us sinners. Spend an hour in Eucharistic adoration and you can feel that presence even though you are a sinner.
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Latter-day Saints that attend the temple are sinners, and are not perfect or sinless. I also like being in a Church (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) that is full of fallen sinners that recognize what Our Lord has done for us and continues to do for us to this day. The temple recommend process has nothing to do with arrogance (anymore than determining that we are worthy to partake of Communion/Eucharist as per 1 Corinthians 11:27 is arrogance), but with examining ourselves and determining if we are living our lives in harmony with Christ’s Gospel. If we are not, that is okay, God forgives, and repentance is possible. When I attend the temple, it is certainly not with a thought that “yeah, I’m so awesome, I’m so perfect and better than others to be here”. “The LDS” say nothing of the sort (anymore than Catholics or Orthodox saying that only Catholics or Orthodox may partake of the Body and Blood of Christ).
Temples in ancient times were used to offer sacrifices to the Lord precisely because people were NOT worthy of His presence but the LDS modified that to say that in modern-day temples, worthiness is a precondition.
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That is odd, I find similarities in the Old Testament itself, with some concept of “worthiness” necessary to keep the Lord’s House undefiled:

Ezekiel 44:9-"Thus saith the Lord God; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel."

Psalm 15:1-2- ***"Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?

He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart***.

Psalm 24:3-4-"***Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord? or who shall stand in his holy place?

He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.***

Etc Etc.

It is clear from the Bible that concepts of worthiness are related to the tabernacle and temple in those days, as well as during New Testament times as well (seen above).
 
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