LDS Doctrine of Eternal Progression/Catholic View

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I have been reading about the Mormon doctrine of “Eternal Progression”. As I understand it, a person in this world works to be come a better person throughout his or her entire life. This process continues after death and a person continues to grow and become more God-like after death, until eventually one can become like a God.

I know the Catholic Church doesn’t teach that a person can become like a God through progressing after death, but is there a Church doctrine about striving to become a better person throughout one’s entire life, or perhaps even after death?
I think Soren1’s explanation was very good. I would simply add that in the Catholic perspective it is understood that we can be perfected by God’s grace, and as members of Christ’s body we will share in His divine nature to the fullest extent that grace allows us to experience it, but our nature will never change. Fundamentally, we are created (not eternal) beings.

My understanding is that the LDS believe that God the Father and human beings are essentially the same; eternal in the sense that both Father God and human beings have a beginning point in time and will continue on eternally. While human beings have the potential to be like Father God some day, Father God is also progressing eternally.

Catholic (and mainline protestant) Christianity is grounded in a belief that God is eternal in the sense of having no beginning and no end. Since we have a beginning, we have an entirely different nature. This is the at the root of the distinction between Catholic “divinization” or “theosis” on the one hand, and the LDS doctrine of eternal progression on the other hand.

Peace,
Robert
 
The Bible doesn’t say anything about a three sided square. Unless you Catholics have your own bible? But there are a lot of exhortations to be like Him.
 
The Bible doesn’t say anything about a three sided square. Unless you Catholics have your own bible? But there are a lot of exhortations to be like Him.
As well as a statement right from the source that we can’t do it on our own. We cannot by taking thought add an inch to our stature.

God did not only create everything from nothing, He created everything that never will be. I could go into a long philosophical and metaphysical discussion of the significance that has in the structure of Space, Faith, and Consequentiality of choices.That would really not be discussiing Catholic dogma though, as well being off topic.
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I suppose it would be appropriate to discuss the effect of the concept of pre-existence on perception of human value. It might produce some ideas for quantitative research and studies as well.
 
My understanding is that the LDS believe that God the Father and human beings are essentially the same; eternal in the sense that both Father God and human beings have a beginning point in time and will continue on eternally. While human beings have the potential to be like Father God some day, Father God is also progressing eternally.
As I understand it we are co-eternal with God the Father. We all (including God the Father) existed eternally as “intelligences”. God the Father acquired a “spirit body” some how, this has not been clearly articulated, creating spirit bodies seems to be a function of a Heavenly Father/Heavenly Mother team. He went on to acquire a physical body and progressed to exhaltation and became our God. We can follow the same scenario and be exhalted also.
 
I have been reading about the Mormon doctrine of “Eternal Progression”. As I understand it, a person in this world works to be come a better person throughout his or her entire life. This process continues after death and a person continues to grow and become more God-like after death, until eventually one can become like a God.

I know the Catholic Church doesn’t teach that a person can become like a God through progressing after death, but is there a Church doctrine about striving to become a better person throughout one’s entire life, or perhaps even after death?
This statement best explains my understanding of life after death. Well said.
 
As a mormon I believed that the God head was 3 people, quite separate but one in purpose. I was also taught that their god was once a man who had to work out his salvation, go through an earthly life, go through eternal plural marriage and all the temple ordinances in order to gain entry into the highest heaven to become a god in his own right who would create worlds, and have spirit children with his exalted goddess wives. All of these beings have bodies of flesh and bone, so how the gods and goddesses have spritual children is a bit of a mystery. Anyway, when the time is right these spiritual beings are given a body, without which they cannot progress, sent down to a planet to go through the same process of exaltaion as their heavenly parents.
I don’t know when the Holy Spirit is supposed to get a body or how he can have his exalted place in mormon theology without it.
Thank God I am not a mormon now, through His work of grace, and the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, I am his adopted daughter and look forward to being with him in his own good time, and only through His work of salvtion not through any affort of my own.:signofcross:
 
As a mormon I believed that the God head was 3 people, quite separate but one in purpose. I was also taught that their god was once a man who had to work out his salvation, go through an earthly life, go through eternal plural marriage and all the temple ordinances in order to gain entry into the highest heaven to become a god in his own right who would create worlds, and have spirit children with his exalted goddess wives. All of these beings have bodies of flesh and bone, so how the gods and goddesses have spritual children is a bit of a mystery. Anyway, when the time is right these spiritual beings are given a body, without which they cannot progress, sent down to a planet to go through the same process of exaltaion as their heavenly parents.
I don’t know when the Holy Spirit is supposed to get a body or how he can have his exalted place in mormon theology without it.
Thank God I am not a mormon now, through His work of grace, and the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, I am his adopted daughter and look forward to being with him in his own good time, and only through His work of salvtion not through any affort of my own.:signofcross:
God is spirit and must be worshipped in spirit and in truth
 
I have been reading about the Mormon doctrine of “Eternal Progression”. As I understand it, a person in this world works to be come a better person throughout his or her entire life. This process continues after death and a person continues to grow and become more God-like after death, until eventually one can become like a God.

I know the Catholic Church doesn’t teach that a person can become like a God through progressing after death, but is there a Church doctrine about striving to become a better person throughout one’s entire life, or perhaps even after death?
Mormones are morans. If you read the book of mormons you’ll start laughing. With all do respect… golden plates that were left behind by indians who had seen christ and that Joseph Smith could translate, and that were only seen by Joseph Smith and ‘some witnesses’ who happened to be all family of Joseph…come on. Those guys are the ones Jesus warned about when he talked about phalse prophets.
 
The Bible doesn’t say anything about a three sided square. Unless you Catholics have your own bible? But there are a lot of exhortations to be like Him.
Red herring…straw man…take your pick.
 
I have been reading about the Mormon doctrine of “Eternal Progression”. As I understand it, a person in this world works to be come a better person throughout his or her entire life. This process continues after death and a person continues to grow and become more God-like after death, until eventually one can become like a God.

I know the Catholic Church doesn’t teach that a person can become like a God through progressing after death, but is there a Church doctrine about striving to become a better person throughout one’s entire life, or perhaps even after death?
the only process to get better after death is purgatory.Our goal is to become like Jesus.But no one can reach Jesus’s holiness.Yes,we do progress in holiness throughout our lives(i hope)that what our ambition is.
 
That is a very common view, but I think the Mormons have a good response to it. If the Mormons used Catholic terminology, than the proxy baptisms, and all proxy ordinances, would be defined as “provisional.” That is, the effect of the ritual does not force anyone to accept it. Moreover, in spirit prison, souls are not under any constraint to listen to the missionaries, although it is generally understood that the spirit missionaries enjoy very good success, since the very existence of spirit prison demonstrates to people that the Mormon message is true. Still the is no actual constraint placed upon the will any more than in Catholic provisional baptisms.
It is important to understand that LDS interpret the Bible verse about Jesus teaching to the spirits in prison as being in what they call paradise, where the spirits of the faithful would have gone, and the word “prison” in that verse means that the lack of their bodies felt like imprisonment. They accept that as scripture in Joseph F. Smith’s vision of the Gospel being preached to the dead. Not only does that vision say that Jesus only visited paradise and not Spirit Prison, but that he organized the Church there and opened the Spirit Prison so they could go in and proselytize – but that he did not go there himself.

I never heard any specualtation that LDS spirit world missionaries have any better proportionate success there than here. One aspect of this is that repentance is required before baptism. In the spirit world that would mean repenting before accepting a baptism done for you, and it is LDS doctrine that it is unimaginably harder to repent in the spirit world than to repent while in your mortal body. Another is that it is not really clear whether those in spirit prison know that they are, and even if they did, the circumstances would not make Mormonism the only option for their belief.

We take our beliefs and the senses of our relationships with us. An atheist might believe himself dreaming, since there is no life after death. He might think he was actually in a coma somewhere. We Catholics might consider ourselves in purgatory and be no more open to receiving an LDS missionary there than we are here. A Hindu might find moving into another realm of existence just as reinforcing of assumptions as a Baptist recognizing “Hey, I died but I’m not dead! Jesus Saves!”

Final note, the veil of forgetfulness about the pre-mortal life with god does not, in most LDS speculation, lift immediately at death. Most even authoritative speculationis that it is not completely gone until resurrection, but I do not think there has ever been any formal doctrinal declaration on the matter.
The name “Mormon” has a storied history. It originates from early persecution of Mormons especially in the late 1830’s, when Smith’s followers were labeled “Mormonites” as a perjorative. Over time, however the term shortened to “Mormon” and eventually lost its perjorative content, although it often carried negative connotations in various circles. Because the term has been used for different reasons at different points in history, LDS views of it have varied accordingly. When the term is been used as an insult, they object to it, when it is not, they don’t mind.

In the most recent LDS General Conference this last April, Apostle Boyd K Packer articulated the current view of the word, when he said, “Because of the Book of Mormon, we are frequently called the Mormon Church, a title we do not resent, but it is really not accurate.” He then goes on to explain the theological significance of the Chruch’s true name, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. [See the full text Guided by the Holy Spirit”]here
.] The upshot is that “Letter-day Saint” is theolgically more proper than “Mormon,” but they have no problem with either term. This is, I think, a reasonable, moderate view.
In fact LDS leaders until about the 1980’s embraced the nickname even as they acknowledged it was not precisely accurate. They said the name of Mormon (as representative of the character from the book with his name) represented good things. As it was introduced as a derisive term they took it as another comparison with early Christians who embraced the derisive term applied to them.
 
Yeah but Mormones are morans. Or so I’ve heard.

Just as a hypothetical, in what ways can we become like Jesus? Okay, we’re definitely not going to be like Him as The Creator, that cat is out of the bag, the world has already been created. Likewise, we cannot bring to pass the Atonement.

But perhaps we can progress to the point that if given the powers to create worlds, we wouldn’t misuse them. Or if required, we would not shrink from that cup? Perhaps it’s our devotion to the Gospel and control over action how we become like Him?
 
Yeah but Mormones are morans. Or so I’ve heard.

Just as a hypothetical, in what ways can we become like Jesus? Okay, we’re definitely not going to be like Him as The Creator, that cat is out of the bag, the world has already been created. Likewise, we cannot bring to pass the Atonement.

But perhaps we can progress to the point that if given the powers to create worlds, we wouldn’t misuse them. Or if required, we would not shrink from that cup? Perhaps it’s our devotion to the Gospel and control over action how we become like Him?
When we receive the Eucharist, we receive Christ’s own Divine Life within us. We “partake of the Divine Nature.”

His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, that through these you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become partakers of the divine nature. 2 Peter 1:3-4 RSV.

When you have progressed through your ‘exaltation’ and become a god or God just like Heavenly Father, who is himself an exalted man of flesh and bones, and rule over your own kingdom, is it a kingdom already created or will you create it yourself? Will the spirit-children you produce with your goddess wives who will inhabit your kingdom need salvation? If so, who will be their savior?

Jim Dandy
 
Being a disciple of Jesus Christ is not about being in control. It is about surrender, to Him.

Jesus calls us to pick up our cross and follow Him. He never taught one time that we should seek power, including the power of gods.

This attachment to a “god-self” is not spiritually healthy. We are called to seek an attachment to Jesus Christ. God comes to meet us, it is God who lifts us up, Created us for no other purpose than Love. Accept this, and let go of this fantasy that God’s Perfect Love is concluded with a bestowing of power.
 
The nature of God is Love.

God IS Love. When we are united to the Father through Jesus Christ, this is the experience that all Christians anticipate. When we become more Christ like it is not growing in power it is growing in love. When we seek to be perfect even as our Father in Heaven is perfect, it is not power that we seek, but perfect Love.

St. Paul teaches we do not know how to love as we ought. To think that we are in control, and self-reliant, is a sin. Submission to God’s Love, which is God Himself, is how we come to understand how to love, and is the Reason for our lives. Reason, being the Word of God, our logos. God’s Perfect Love Revealed. There is no other Word by which we live by. As, seeking other ways, such as the power of gods, is death.
 
The nature of God is Love.

God IS Love. When we are united to the Father through Jesus Christ, this is the experience that all Christians anticipate. When we become more Christ like it is not growing in power it is growing in love. When we seek to be perfect even as our Father in Heaven is perfect, it is not power that we seek, but perfect Love.

St. Paul teaches we do not know how to love as we ought. To think that we are in control, and self-reliant, is a sin. Submission to God’s Love, which is God Himself, is how we come to understand how to love, and is the Reason for our lives. Reason, being the Word of God, our logos. God’s Perfect Love Revealed. There is no other Word by which we live by. As, seeking other ways, such as the power of gods, is death.
There is an enormous focus on achieving and wielding power and authority with in the LDS, you can see it in their understanding of and focus on the “priesthood”. The “power of the priesthood” is an ubiquitous phrase.
 
There is an enormous focus on achieving and wielding power and authority with in the LDS, you can see it in their understanding of and focus on the “priesthood”. The “power of the priesthood” is an ubiquitous phrase.
This is an enitrely gratuitous claim. No one is saying this about the Catholic priesthood.

It seems to me that discussion is following along the lines that (Catholic view) God has all the power and he can’t share it with the fiflth that we are and he just can’t make us any better. The LDS view being the opposite. Okay, I’m not saying it in an especially favourable way to what I undersrand is the Catholic view, but please correct any misconception I have.
 
This is an enitrely gratuitous claim. No one is saying this about the Catholic priesthood.

It seems to me that discussion is following along the lines that (Catholic view) God has all the power and he can’t share it with the fiflth that we are and he just can’t make us any better. The LDS view being the opposite. Okay, I’m not saying it in an especially favourable way to what I undersrand is the Catholic view, but please correct any misconception I have.
I gladly correct your misconception.

First I want to note that historically several Catholic leaders got caught up seeking and wielding power because they had a lot of secular power. Mormonism, on the smaller scale which it experienced, proved itself no less susceptible to abuse of secular authority, with Joseph Smith’s destruction of the printing press of the Nauvoo Expositor as not even a particularly early example of this. The cover-up of the Mountain Meadows Massacre (America’s other September 11) offers a later example.

Any human beings are susceptible to the corruption of power if they are not careful. What Zaffiroborant refers to is the promises the LDS priesthood makes about the kind of power the holders of it will have. IPArt of this ties in with a belief system which extends Earthly competition into the Celestial realm. In LDS theology some of us will still benefit from and exploit advantages over others of us in the Celestial Kingdom, as indicated in
Doctrine and Covenants 130
18) Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection.
19) And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.
I say exploit because of the LDS doctrine that those who achieve the Celestial Kingdom but lack an Eternal companion will have lower status and serve those who do have Eternal Companions.The former are like angels, the latter like Gods.

Regarding your statement, “God has all the power and he can’t share it with the fiflth that we are and he just can’t make us any better.” That must be a foregone conclusion in your case, and aamended by your own biases. It is neither an inherent claim of Cahtolicism, nor reflected in what others have posted on the site. Catholicism teaches that god does share His power with us, but it does not take any special ordiantion. It is called the common preiesthood of the faithful, and anyone who has been validly baptized, Catholic or not, shares in it – but we do not hold the priesthood ourselves. The Bible teaches us that there is one High Priest and we share in His Priesthood.

Christianity does not teach that humans are filth. We are inherently corruptible through original sin, but as a cration we are sanctified simply in that God chose to enter into his own Creation as one of us. It means we inherently have a share of God as he shares in our humanity.

We do not perceive any of us having advantage over others in the next life. The Lord makes it clear in his parables that whether the wrokers came in early ion the mortal day, or late in the mortal day – whether they worked harder and sacrificed more, or worked less and sacriificed little, the reward is the same.

To say that Catholicism teaches that “God just can’t make us any better,” indicates absolutely uninformed understanding of both Christianity and your own version of it. Christians and Catholics in particular recognize that ONLY God can make us better. In the Savior’s words, we cannot by taking though add an inch to our stature. That is the whole purpose of the real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist – to change us where we cannot change ourselves.

This is actually consistent with what the Book of Mormon teaches about the personal process of perfection. 1) Without grace, nothing we do matters. 2) The only perfection is perfection in Christ. The LDS Church itself does not teach this, however, emphasizing instead that we have to do everything we are capable of ourselves before we can count on divine power compensating for our own mortal weakness.

A final note, and I do not usually say this but feel compelled to: In my experience people who rely on the sort of conceited reponses (using conceit in its literal meaning of far-fetched comparison) as do you, who alter terms and take the interpretations to such unjustifed extremes, are fighting the promptings of the Holy Spirit telling them they are wrong, so they must respond forcefully enough to diminish any sense of love that the Holy Spirit needs to keep it up. Diminishing that love only hurts such individuals themselves, as they cannot benefit from other graces of the Lord. In other words, you only hurt yourself fighting against the goads, or in LDS version, “It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.”
 
Mormons see what they want to see, and have an inherent Catholic bigotry in what they believe. They have to, otherwise they will see the Mormon religion for what it is: an unnecessary fraud.
 
Mormons see what they want to see, and have an inherent Catholic bigotry in what they believe. They have to, otherwise they will see the Mormon religion for what it is: an unnecessary fraud.
I don’t know if I would say “want to see.” Especially when raised in the Chruch one has an antirely different world view. An actual issue of being able to shift to another perspective exists there. I do not mean that as a criticism.
 
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