LDS Godparents?

[Baho]

I’m expecting a lot of heat for this. I’m aware of the questionable (or worse) validity of an LDS baptism and the theological contradictions between Catholic and LDS theology. Nevertheless, would it be permissible under any circumstances for children to have LDS Godparents in addition to their Catholic Godparents?

FWIW, I’ve dedicated years of research to LDS theology and church history because I find it fascinating, but I also actively work to refute the claims of the LDS church online and in person. I’m extremely aware of their problematic beliefs. That being said, this particular couple is the reason I believe in God today. Their example is what led to my investigation into the existence of God in the first place. They were always available to answer my questions and talk but never pushed their beliefs and they were not unhappy when I was baptized in another church or chose to become Catholic. To the contrary, the husband helped shield me from being targeted with negative performance reports at work when I tried to get time off to attend RCIA classes. He actively worked to help me become Catholic. They’re also the only people other than my family that I trust my children with. I think that in addition to Catholic Godparents, their love for God and strong moral character would lead to them being great shepherds for my children. I’m also confident they might convert one day, as they are becoming disillusioned with their church as an institution.

I get that some of you might have strong opinions about this but I’m here for open discussion and feedback, and I value your opinions, so there’s no need for any hostility.

Thank you for your time.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

I don’t think so. There is no need for multiple sets of godparents, even if all are catholic.

Certainly if you have LDS friends that you consider positive role models (albeit not on matters of religious doctrines) there’s nothing wrong with involving them in your kids lives.

 

[Baho]

That’s a good point friend.

 

[TC3033]

Nevertheless, would it be permissible under any circumstances for children to have LDS Godparents in addition to their Catholic Godparents?

That’s honestly a good question. All of my kids have both Catholic and non-Catholic godparents (Christian Sponsors).

I thought that they did need to be baptized though, and I’m not sure if the LDS baptism is recognized/accepted by the Catholic Church. To be fair, they never asked anyone for baptismal certificates. I think my wife had to prove one Catholic that was confirmed.

 

[Baho]

Yeah that’s what I was concerned about haha. I asked my deacon and RCIA coordinator (who is sponsoring us along with her husband) and they didn’t ask about baptism and just said sure they can be witnesses so, I think its good?

What does someone bring a witness really entail? Do they come up and observe?

 

[TheLittleLady]

There must be one practicing, confirmed Catholic as the baptismal &/or Confirmation sponsor. If there is a second sponsor for either/both Sacraments, the second person must be of the opposite sex as the first and if they are not a practicing, confirmed Catholic they must be a validly baptized Christian, they may not be a fallen away or non-practicing Catholic.

The Vatican has spoken wrt LDS Baptisms:

https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/...oc_20010605_battesimo_mormoni-ladaria_en.html

 

[Diaconia]

Mormons aren’t Christians, full stop. They can’t be sponsors, nor can they serve as “Christian Witnesses” in the way a Protestant could.

That doesn’t mean they can’t be wonderful, thoughtful, caring people. But the special role needed for baptism cannot be filled by them. Nor any other non-Christian devout person (Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, etc.).

If explained with sincerity and tactfulness, they will probably respect you even more.

Deacon Christopher

 

[stpurl]

You may not have them as godparents or witnesses apparently.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I’m not sure if the LDS baptism is recognized/accepted by the Catholic Church.

It is not. The Mormons do not recognize the Trinitarian nature of God, and so their baptism is invalid.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Mormons aren’t Christians, full stop. They can’t be sponsors, nor can they serve as “Christian Witnesses” in the way a Protestant could.

Mormons define “Christian” differently than Catholics (or Orthodox, or Protestants) do. Certainly they are of the impression they are Christians. Doesn’t mean they are, but that’s how they regard themselves.

Their moral code is basically identical to that of all Christians prior to the 20th century. Their Word of Wisdom, strictly speaking, is only a strong recommendation — I don’t think they regard it as a “sin”, per se, to drink coffee, or to smoke, etc. It is not bad advice at all, though they cannot enjoy the health benefits of moderate alcohol consumption, and I have heard that having no stimulants whatsoever in their systems, is not the best thing for digestion. It must not be too harmful to do without these things, though, because they tend to live longer than their “Gentile” counterparts.

There are evangelical fundamentalists who do not regard Catholics as Christians either, or they might concede that there are Christians within the Catholic Church, even though (to them) the organization is not Christian.

 

[1ke]

Nevertheless, would it be permissible under any circumstances for children to have LDS Godparents in addition to their Catholic Godparents?

No.

LDS do not have valid baptism. Therefore they cannot be a Christian witness together with a Catholic godparent. They aren’t Christians. The Church has explicitly ruled their baptism is invalid.

 

[1ke]

They’re also the only people other than my family that I trust my children with.

I’m sure they are lovely people. They are friends and will be in your life, and your child’s.

But a sponsor is something specific and only a Catholic can be a sponsor. With the Catholic a Christian witness may also stand with the parents. The Church is not ambiguous on its definition of Christian: valid baptism incorporates you into the body of Christ.

Also, I’m not clear on what you mean by “ They’re also the only people other than my family that I trust my children with.”.

Trust with what?

 

[Diaconia]

It doesn’t matter what they think, nor what they call themselves.

The Catholic Church has definitively ruled their baptisms are invalid because they they deny the Trinity.

The answer I gave is the correct teaching of the Catholic Church, to the posted question.

Deacon Christopher

 

[TheLittleLady]

Also, I’m not clear on what you mean by “ They’re also the only people other than my family that I trust my children with.”.

Perhaps @baho is confusing “Godparents” with “appointed legal guardians” of minor children in a will.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

It doesn’t matter what they think, nor what they call themselves.

The Catholic Church has definitively ruled their baptisms are invalid because they they deny the Trinity.

The answer I gave is the correct teaching of the Catholic Church, to the posted question.

Deacon Christopher

And I do not dispute that in the least. I am an entirely faithful, orthodox, traditional Catholic and I accept everything the Catholic Church believes and teaches. The Church does not regard LDS baptism as a valid sacrament, and neither do I.

I was merely stating what the COJCOLDS says about itself. I do respect the fact that they are a people of strong (if mistaken) faith, and I admire their traditional morality, clean living, industriousness, and strong family values (polygamy excepted). But none of the nice things in the world can make them baptized, Trinitatian Christians when they are not. I will grant that they do attach importance to the life and teachings of Jesus, and that is very nice as well, but that does not make them Christians.

 

[Baho]

I reached out and told him that I have learned that they can’t be our kids godparents or participate. It stinks but hopefully they’ll understand.

 

[gdigi]

Depends on what you mean by “participate” - they cannot be godparents/Christian witnesses, but they can certainly be present.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

I reached out and told him that I have learned that they can’t be our kids godparents or participate. It stinks but hopefully they’ll understand.

They might be able to think of it this way — would a Catholic (or anyone else not LDS) be able to participate in, or sponsor (if they did such a thing, I don’t think they do) someone for a temple endowment or a similar ceremony? I seriously doubt it. They shouldn’t have an issue, then, with not being allowed to perform such a role in a Catholic rite.

 

[dochawk]

I’m aware of the questionable (or worse) validity of an LDS baptism

kind of like the “questionable (or worse) validity of the math theorem ‘2+2=5’”

It cannot be called “questionable” from a Catholic perspective;’ it just plain isn’t a baptism.

Mormons aren’t Christians, full stop. They can’t be sponsors, nor can they serve as “Christian Witnesses” in the way a Protestant could.

That doesn’t mean they can’t be wonderful, thoughtful, caring people. But the special role needed for baptism cannot be filled by them. Nor any other non-Christian devout person (Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, etc.).

Mormons aren’t Christians, full stop.

This.

And the rest of what the good deacon writes follows from this.

Mormons define “Christian” differently than Catholics (or Orthodox, or Protestants) do.

that is: Mormons define “Christian” differently than Christians do.

and strong family values (polygamy excepted).

Actually, even that comes from different origins than widely accepted. Although Mormons deny it, it started after folks started shooting mormons. It was initially a, “what do we do with all of these widows” problem, and the rest was backlit onto that.

I will grant that they do attach importance to the life and teachings of Jesus, and that is very nice as well, but that does not make them Christians.

Although, like Mohammedans and Jehovahs witnesses, they are Arians . . .

 

[HomeschoolDad]

HomeschoolDad:

and strong family values (polygamy excepted).

Actually, even that comes from different origins than widely accepted. Although Mormons deny it, it started after folks started shooting mormons. It was initially a, “what do we do with all of these widows” problem, and the rest was backlit onto that.

Did only the men get shot?

Actually, LDS theology allows for ongoing revelation, and allows for that which was once forbidden now to be permitted (and vice versa) — elevating black men to the Melchizedek priesthood would be just one example.

This sounds a little bit like the concept of “hermeneutic of discontinuity”.

HomeschoolDad:

I will grant that they do attach importance to the life and teachings of Jesus, and that is very nice as well, but that does not make them Christians.

Although, like Mohammedans and Jehovahs witnesses, they are Arians

I knew that JWs are basically modern-day Arians, but I did not know that about Muslims and LDS.