LDS: Is the name "Nephi" a derivative of "Nephilim"?

[SteveVH]

Uhm, what term should I use then? If not scriptures?
Novels?

You see, I also have the Qu’ran in German at home, and I also read it. Same with the Bhagavad Gita.

And same with the Apocrypha of the NT. - or also with the apocrypha of the OT! (In this case I am not referring to the Deuterocanon. They are borderline…)

I would call all of them scripture, due to lack of another term. But do I believe they are divinely inspired? → NO!
Only the Holy Bible (the OT with the 66 books and the NT) are divinely inspired for me!

They (BoM, Qu’ran, Bhagavad Gita etc) are all divinely inspired scriptures by the people they use them and believe in them. And you should always handle anything with respect, that for someone is holy!

So to stay with the BoM: For RLDS and LDS the BoM is holy, and therefore I refer to it as scripture and I handle it with respect. But this doesn’t mean I believe that it’s a divinely inspired scripture.

Esdra

I would like to echo Jerusha’s sentiments. Your efforts to remain charitable are admirable and you certainly treat everyone with respect. Thank you for that. I am happy that you are here as well. It isn’t that big of deal, Esdra, it is just that Sacred Scripture is set apart from all other writings known to man because we do believe that it is the word of God and not man. I might refer to the BoM, D&C, etc. as Mormon writings rather than scriptures which would reflect my view.

God bless.

 

[KathleenGee]

There have been warnings in the Epistles to not listen to an angel…there is no Moroni in the Bible…there is an anathema declared in them not to believe in an angel.

I was taught that Martin Luther had an angel appear to him and warn him not to go through with his intentions, but he did. Look what Sola Scripture has done to individualistic America…our faith is so fractured because of all the different true churches…

 

[KathleenGee]

This is on the side…I was caring for a client over night…and he had his radio on all night…the topic was the Nephiliams…what? I never heard of them…

They referred back to Genesis when giants roamed the earth. And how they still exist but live underground. It totally creeped me out. I did a search and came up on sites that showed actual pictures of the remains of giants as well as sightings of ones by early explorers…creepy.

 

[Esdra]

Perhaps, Esdra, the distinction can be made through “scripture” versus “Scripture.”

I am grateful that you are here. Many American Baptists are not as respectful of others’ beliefs as you are.

To Steve and Jerusha,

yes, I always try to be respectful of other’s beliefs.

Mhm, yes, I know that American Baptists are radically different than I am. But I guess most of my European Baptist brethern think similar than me.
It’s astonishing that Baptist isn’t Baptist. I would say this is so because we are a minority church in our Country…

Esdra

 

[Esdra]

Perhaps, Esdra, the distinction can be made through “scripture” versus “Scripture.”

I am grateful that you are here. Many American Baptists are not as respectful of others’ beliefs as you are.

You see, this probably has to do with that that German is my mothertongue! As you may know, nouns are written in capital letters there always.
And I, so I have found out, tend to write the one or other noun in capital letters.
This is quite a cultural thing with me, I’d say.

Esdra

 

[Esdra]

There have been warnings in the Epistles to not listen to an angel…there is no Moroni in the Bible…there is an anathema declared in them not to believe in an angel.

I was taught that Martin Luther had an angel appear to him and warn him not to go through with his intentions, but he did. Look what Sola Scripture has done to individualistic America…our faith is so fractured because of all the different true churches…

Well, but then we have a problem with the deuterocanonical scriptures: Didn’t Tobit listen to the Angel Raphael in the Book of Tobit?

We don’t even need to go that far: Didn’t Joseph listen to the Angel that appeared in his dream? (Mt 1:18-25)

As far as I know in the scriptures it only says that we should pay attention which Ghost is talking to us: I don’t know the exact passage, but Paul calls it in 1 Cor 12:10 a gift of the Holy Ghost.

However, in Gal 1:8 it says: "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! "
Were you referring to that?

Esdra

 

[flyonthewall]

There have been warnings in the Epistles to not listen to an angel…there is no Moroni in the Bible…there is an anathema declared in them not to believe in an angel.

I was taught that Martin Luther had an angel appear to him and warn him not to go through with his intentions, but he did. Look what Sola Scripture has done to individualistic America…our faith is so fractured because of all the different true churches…

What is the name of the angel spoken of in Revelations 14? When this angel comes and his name is not listed in the Bible, will you reject him?
How many names of angels are listed in the Bible? and how many angels are there? Do all angels have names?
I am curious as to how this works for you.

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

 

[Esdra]

This is on the side…I was caring for a client over night…and he had his radio on all night…the topic was the Nephiliams…what? I never heard of them…

They referred back to Genesis when giants roamed the earth. And how they still exist but live underground. It totally creeped me out. I did a search and came up on sites that showed actual pictures of the remains of giants as well as sightings of ones by early explorers…creepy.

The Nephilim are half angel and half human. They are mentioned in Gen 6:1-4:

“And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
** There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. **”

Another report in the OT is to be found in Numbers 13:32-33.

So the giants and the Nephilim, the “mighty men of old” are not the same.

In the apocryphal (and deuterocanonical book in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church) 1st Book of Enoch, the [ it says more about the Nephilim.

Esdra"Book of Giants"](Loading...[/URL)

 

[Esdra]

In the apocryphal (and deuterocanonical book in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church) 1st Book of Enoch, the Book of Jubilees and the “Book of Giants” it says more about the Nephilim.

Esdra

Sorry I was too slow in editing…

 

[KathleenGee]

Esdra,

We are only to acknowledge the identified and named angels of Sacred Scriptures. We believe in various classes of angels, from our own guardian angels and those that assist in work of creation, to the archangels to the cherubim and seraphims…

Yes, the beginning of Genesis refers to them…there is a story out by Spanish explorers who saw a giant singing on a beach in Peru, and started menacing the men off shore. Don’t know if it is true or not.

 

[RebeccaJ]

The Nephilim are half angel and half human. They are mentioned in Gen 6:1-4:

“And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
** There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. **”

Perhaps as the notes in the NAB state…a fragment of an old legend borrowed from ancient mythology.

 

[TracyR]

Yes, that’s definitely true.
For me the RLDS are the “true Mormons”. - They stick to the BoM (which is definitely a Christian, even a Baptist book, you could say) and to the Holy Bible. (And mostly the newer D&C. As they believe in continuing relevation. At the moment they are at Section 164 which was written this year (2010))

'Esdra

Umm , as someone who has spent time with the Baptist faith the BoM is not even close to a Baptist book or even its beliefs. Sorry.

As for “reformed Egyptian” there is no proof that it was ever a language. Albeit oral or written. You can’t write a language that people do not speak. Nor anyone has never seen ever. Impossible. Anyone that was a tribe that valued writing (which what the book of Mormon claims) would have left lots of proof around showing this language existed. Again albeit oral or written. No one even knows what in the world ‘reformed Egyptian’ looks like. I bet if you asked an Egyptian what reformed Egyptian was he’d look at you like you had a hundered heads.

As far as I know it its the Fundamentalist LDS that sees themselves as the true Mormon faith as they follow JS teachings that include polygamy. They see that the Main line LDS has apositized from the orignal church and its teachings. So much so that they feel the original founder of Mormonism wouldnt’ even be allowed in his own church if he were alive today.
Now I’m not sure if the RLDS is what you are speaking of because I’m not up on the abreviations of the board yet. But this is totally my understanding. Which by the way has been documented and proven…

sourceflix.com/lifting-the-veil-of-polygamy/ (discusses about polygamy and about the fundamentalists and mainline mormons)
sourceflix.com/the-bible-vs-the-book-of-mormon/ ( an excellent documentary on the Holy Bible and the Book of Mormon. )

I agree that the book of Mormon is good religious fiction and nothing else.

 

[Jerusha]

Unhhhh

the book of Mormon is good religious fiction

Teaches racism as a Christian fundamental? Teaches intergenerational hatred as a Christian fundamental? Teaches that murder and genocide are Christian fundamentals? Teaches that people of color should allow themselves to be murdered, not even raising an arm in self-defense is a Christian fundamental? Teaches that God holds people of color, and white folk to different standards is a Christian fundamental? If one reads it with a negative bias, there are many ways in which it fails as Christian fiction. If one were to read it as a lesson about the sinful nature of man-- it might pass, but many Mormons do not read it that way.

 

[Esdra]

Now I’m not sure if the RLDS is what you are speaking of because I’m not up on the abreviations of the board yet. But this is totally my understanding. Which by the way has been documented and proven…

sourceflix.com/lifting-the-veil-of-polygamy/ (discusses about polygamy and about the fundamentalists and mainline mormons)
sourceflix.com/the-bible-vs-the-book-of-mormon/ ( an excellent documentary on the Holy Bible and the Book of Mormon. )

I agree that the book of Mormon is good religious fiction and nothing else.

well, I am a Baptist also (at least some kind of. - You see, in Europe where I live the thing with Baptists is a bit different, juding from various posts here in CAF).

RLDS = Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
There are different branches, most of them in the USA. The biggest group, and second biggest Mormon Church call themselves Community of Christ (and they are international).

Well, not all parts are good. But the teachings ARE good, and, if you believe me or not, I have found much “Baptist Doctrine” in it. Read for example the Book of Alma…

Esdra

 

[Jerusha]

Well, not all parts are good. But the teachings ARE good, and, if you believe me or not, I have found much “Baptist Doctrine” in it.

There are a lot of teachings in it that are consistent with Baptist Doctrine. That is because Mormonism is an offshoot of the Baptists.

 

[Esdra]

There are a lot of teachings in it that are consistent with Baptist Doctrine. That is because Mormonism is an offshoot of the Baptists.

I do know! But Tacey didn’t believe me!

Esdra

 

[zerinus]

I think you completely missed the point. When one fly fishes the point is to fool the fish.

Deceive or no deceive. Jesus said, “Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men” (Matthew 4:19). He uses the “fishing” tactic to find an reclaim His lost seep. So your comparison with fishing was evidently an appropriate one.

 

[flyonthewall]

Unhhhh Teaches racism as a Christian fundamental? Teaches intergenerational hatred as a Christian fundamental? Teaches that murder and genocide are Christian fundamentals? Teaches that people of color should allow themselves to be murdered, not even raising an arm in self-defense is a Christian fundamental? Teaches that God holds people of color, and white folk to different standards is a Christian fundamental? If one reads it with a negative bias, there are many ways in which it fails as Christian fiction. If one were to read it as a lesson about the sinful nature of man-- it might pass, but many Mormons do not read it that way.

The BoM that I read teaches none of what you say. If you read it looking to find something negative, then all sorts of things can be made up.

Oh, and Happy New Year to everyone!

 

[Jerusha]

If one reads it with a negative bias, there are many ways in which it fails as Christian fiction

 

[KathleenGee]

People need to take the teachings of Christ more deeply.

The biggest scourge on our country has been racism, and the seculars play the bigotry/race card equating with Christianity like a mandolin.

I was on a popular site that is connected to MSNBC…and whenever a Christian comes on, certain ones who are very, very smart pretty much tear the person to pieces. One of my friends, a retired medical executive, who is very well versed, charitable, and moderated, started a piece with the wrong construct, and was very badly beaten up by the same fellows.

There are those who are specialists on anti-Catholicism. One is a pro free sex and pro abortion, pro wiccan…who has a loving side to her, and was adamant and dominated me about St. Augustine’s method of determining the gender of the pregnancy. In her mind, his opinion was part of the teaching of the Church. And she won.

Our culture is immensely secularized and St. Benedict says that after our own purgation and purification in the American Church, it is time now to evangelize by Christianizing our culture.

I read a Catholic article last night, and Europe is now considered a pagan continent and needs to be re-evangelized.

So people should read the right sources to bring the truth of Christ and His message of redemption and salvation to others. Europe has no experience in dealing with all the different denominations there like we do here.