LDS: King Follett Sermon - WOW! WOW! WOW!

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RC_Matt said:
Comments from a self-proclaimed Jewish-Gnostic literary critic have no relevance whatsoever. If he did indeed find the sermon to be “wonderful” and “a work of genius,” that would be the absolute antithesis of endorsement for Christians.
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But Harold Bloom is well respected in his fields of interest.
 
AMDGtoo said:
Evidence? Or is this just another charge hurled at the Catholic Church while conveniently forgetting that you guys have leaders who have actually admitted that they “speak as a man”?
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I have often said on this forum that humans are not perfect and certainly the catholic church which is made up of human beings has shown some imperfection in its history. The question is: would this constitute apostacy? For protestants, they would say yes, Mormons too, would say yes. But for catholics, such imperfections would be forgiven since the human being is imperfect.
 
why_me said:
So can I claim the same for JS? He reshaped christianity? 🙂
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No, because didn’t reshape Christianity. He rejected Christianity, referring to it as an abomination and its professors corrupt. What he did was create his own religion, with its own unique cosmology and tenets that are mutually exclusive with Christianity.
 
why_me said:
But Harold Bloom is well respected in his fields of interest.
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Which has absolutely no implication for Christians. A garbage collector may be well respected in his field too, but that doesn’t make him a Christian theologian nor impart credibility to any comments he might make; other than those related to garbage of course.
 
why_me said:
I have often said on this forum that humans are not perfect and certainly the catholic church which is made up of human beings has shown some imperfection in its history. The question is: would this constitute apostacy? For protestants, they would say yes, Mormons too, would say yes. But for catholics, such imperfections would be forgiven since the human being is imperfect.
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Once more you are in error. Apostacy is the total repudiation of the Christian Faith by one who has been baptized or received into the Church. It does not refer to imperfections in believers.

Further, the Catholic Church, which is Christ’s Body is perfect. As a supposed Catholic you should know that. 🤷
 
Nordar said:
I really can’t help but start laughing when I read some of these posts. I’m quite sure you think you are making sense:rolleyes:
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I guess you’ve closed your mind to what I am saying. It’s rather ridiculous to give a long list of names and dates. The question is when and where did you loose your way? What year and what name? The very fact that the timeline is littered with anti-popes should be a large throbbing red clue.

I submit to you when the leadership went from Apostle to Pope, you lost your way. If it was after James and John, then so be it.
 
Well that’s a good question. Asserting Apostolic Succession is not the same as proving it. It’s frankly very difficult to either prove or disprove. SO I don’t see the point of reeling off names and dates as there’s no correlation at all to whether or not they had authority or that the church they lead was divine.

The Protestants believe that even if the church that was the Catholic church was once divine that it had become corrupted. But all of Christianity had been badly fractured even before that. It’s like a thousand birds all sitting on the same tree and each one claiming his branch as the true and only. In this regard, Catholics are just another bird.

I sometimes wonder if there is even such a thing as a Divine Church. But whether or not there is, people seem to argue for their particular teachings as though they were handed down from God.
 
rmcmullan said:
Well that’s a good question. Asserting Apostolic Succession is not the same as proving it. It’s frankly very difficult to either prove or disprove. SO I don’t see the point of reeling off names and dates as there’s no correlation at all to whether or not they had authority or that the church they lead was divine.

The Protestants believe that even if the church that was the Catholic church was once divine that it had become corrupted. But all of Christianity had been badly fractured even before that. It’s like a thousand birds all sitting on the same tree and each one claiming his branch as the true and only. In this regard, Catholics are just another bird.

I sometimes wonder if there is even such a thing as a Divine Church. But whether or not there is, people seem to argue for their particular teachings as though they were handed down from God.
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From the New American Bible:

Acts
Chapter 1

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When they entered the city they went to the upper room where they were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James.
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All these devoted themselves with one accord to prayer, together with some women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.
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During those days Peter stood up in the midst of the brothers (there was a group of about one hundred and twenty persons in the one place). He said,
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“My brothers, the scripture had to be fulfilled which the holy Spirit spoke beforehand through the mouth of David, concerning Judas, who was the guide for those who arrested Jesus.
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He was numbered among us and was allotted a share in this ministry.
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He bought a parcel of land with the wages of his iniquity, and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle, and all his insides spilled out. 7
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This became known to everyone who lived in Jerusalem, so that the parcel of land was called in their language ‘Akeldama,’ that is, Field of Blood.
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For it is written in the Book of Psalms: ‘Let his encampment become desolate, and may no one dwell in it.’ And: ‘May another take his office.’
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Therefore, it is necessary that one of the men who accompanied us the whole time the Lord Jesus came and went among us,
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beginning from the baptism of John until the day on which he was taken up from us, become with us a witness to his resurrection.”
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So they proposed two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also known as Justus, and Matthias.
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Then they prayed, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen
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to take the place in this apostolic ministry from which Judas turned away to go to his own place.”
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8 Then they gave lots to them, and the lot fell upon Matthias, and he was counted with the eleven apostles.

I know this has been posted before, but I thought it worth posting again. The definition of apostle from the apostles, St. Peter no less,themselves. Food for thought. I hope.

In Christ,
Michael
 
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