LDS: King Follett Sermon - WOW! WOW! WOW!

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1holycatholic said:
The King Follett sermon is Joseph Smith’s (the founder of the LDS) most explicit statement of how far the LDS are from Christianity. This is germane because some posters wrongly claim that LDS is Christian, or that they can be LDS and Christian (specifically Catholic) at the same time. They are wrong. You can’t be and not be something at the same time in the same respect. That’s a contradiction.
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That may be so but the conversation has sort of taken an off beat turn. Also, the King Follett sermon was a masterpiece. Unfortunately we only have the long hand notes of this sermon by four mormons who were in attendance at that time. It seems that the original was lost.

The original sermon must have been wonderful to hear. 🙂
 
PaulDupre said:
The King Follett Discourse was not just a private sermon at a funeral as many LDS would have us believe. It was a talk given in General Conference on Sunday, April 7, 1844. Therefore, it was not a private statement of opinion, but was presented as LDS Church doctrine by its president and prophet, Joseph Smith.
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General Conference was just a wee bit smaller at that time. The sermon was mainly directed at King Follett’s family to console them in their grief.

From the beginning of the discourse:

Beloved Saints: I will call [for] the attention of this congregation while I address you on the subject of the dead. The decease of our beloved brother, Elder King Follett, who was crushed in a well by the falling of a tub of rock has more immediately led me to this subject. I have been requested to speak by his friends and relatives, but inasmuch as there are a great many in this congregation who live in this city as well as elsewhere, who have lost friends, I feel disposed to speak on the subject in general, and offer you my ideas, so far as I have ability, and so far as I shall be inspired by the Holy Spirit to dwell on this subject.
 
Tsuzuki said:
Things get even more fun when you treat Mormonism as an ethnicity.
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I do think that you may be in just a little conflict with the catholic church upon joining the faith. When you join the faith, with baptism you more or less give up the mormon faith. This would be a requirement. You can keep the culture but active participation in the mormon faith would not be encouraged.

Now if you were born a catholic or if you did not need to have the baptismal rite, you may be in the clear. But your catholic baptism, if you were baptized would tend to nullify your mormon baptism. Or at least, that would be the reason for rebaptism to become a catholic.

I don’t think that any priest would encourage your pursuit of chaos magic or mormonism. That is my two cents. :twocents:
 
Tsuzuki said:
Things get even more fun when you treat Mormonism as an ethnicity.
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There is not an Mormon ethnicity. I am done. I give you win there are no absolutes you can be fully a combination of whatever you want without being in contradiction of yourself. I think I maybe become a Catholic Mormon Jewish Hindu Muslim so as i have just about all base covered and it should be real fun.🤷
 
why_me said:
That may be so but the conversation has sort of taken an off beat turn. Also, the King Follett sermon was a masterpiece. Unfortunately we only have the long hand notes of this sermon by four mormons who were in attendance at that time. It seems that the original was lost.

The original sermon must have been wonderful to hear. 🙂
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:dts: There is nothing wonderful about a lie.
 
on all of this, would be this. A clear, concise declaration renouncing all other religions, and other gods is the way to go. Doing it in writing is all the better. Declare it. Affirm it. Establish your renunciation here on earth and in heaven. Go to confession. Explain it in detail. Get it off your chest. That’s step one.

For one of us to dabble is a grevious sin. I don’t care how innocent and harmless it may be. It will create hooks on you for unclean spirits to attach themselves to you. The enemy will build a stronghold in your life. Throw it down in the confessional. Forget this Mormon horse sh**. I mean, what am I hearing here? King Follett !!! What a joke. Run. Run as fast as you can to power and might of Holy Mother Church.

Say the Apostles Creed one word at a time. Understand it, one word at a time. That’s the map out of the quagmire. Cover yourself in the Precious Blood. Hide in his Sacred Heart. Hide yourself from the enemy that you have invited into your life. Throw yourself face down before the throne of your Divine Master. Its not who you are, its whose you are. A servant of the Most High God.

Free yourself of all hooks, bondage’s, evil blood, false prayers, evil darts, and false doctrine. The Most High God will brandish the lance and the battle ax in the face of your pursuers.
 
YipYupYep said:
on all of this, would be this. A clear, concise declaration renouncing all other religions, and other gods is the way to go. Doing it in writing is all the better. Declare it. Affirm it. Establish your renunciation here on earth and in heaven. Go to confession. Explain it in detail. Get it off your chest. That’s step one.

For one of us to dabble is a grevious sin. I don’t care how innocent and harmless it may be. It will create hooks on you for unclean spirits to attach themselves to you. The enemy will build a stronghold in your life. Throw it down in the confessional. Forget this Mormon horse sh**. I mean, what am I hearing here? King Follett !!! What a joke. Run. Run as fast as you can to power and might of Holy Mother Church.

Say the Apostles Creed one word at a time. Understand it, one word at a time. That’s the map out of the quagmire. Cover yourself in the Precious Blood. Hide in his Sacred Heart. Hide yourself from the enemy that you have invited into your life. Throw yourself face down before the throne of your Divine Master. Its not who you are, its whose you are. A servant of the Most High God.

Free yourself of all hooks, bondage’s, evil blood, false prayers, evil darts, and false doctrine. The Most High God will brandish the lance and the battle ax in the face of your pursuers.
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Amen and Amen
 
oneGODoneCHURCH said:
There is not an Mormon ethnicity. I am done. I give you win there are no absolutes you can be fully a combination of whatever you want without being in contradiction of yourself. I think I maybe become a Catholic Mormon Jewish Hindu Muslim so as i have just about all base covered and it should be real fun.🤷
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I am a Latin-Rite Taoist.😃
 
Tsuzuki said:
Show me in the catechism where I err, and I will gladly revise my position. So far, though, I’ve never encountered anything about how Mormons view baptism for the dead.
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**2108 **The right to religious liberty is neither a moral license to adhere to error, nor a supposed right to error, but rather a natural right of the human person to civil liberty, i.e., immunity, within just limits, from external constraint in religious matters by political authorities. This natural right ought to be acknowledged in the juridical order of society in such a way that it constitutes a civil right.
 
Tsuzuki said:
Unless there’s some special arrangement with Salt Lake, getting baptized Catholic wouldn’t nullify anything.
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Not quite true…the Mormon church considers you to be in apostasy. You (and I) just haven’t been busted by the Mormans.
And as the Catholic Church doesn’t recognize Mormon baptisms at all, it’s a complete non-issue on that side.
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Do you recognize your Mormon baptism as valid? If so, this is the issue. Not that the Church doesn’t recognize Mormon baptism, but you do.
As far as the Catholic Church is concerned, there is no such thing as a Mormon baptism, so there is nothing to nullify.
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Again, if you consider your Mormon baptism to be valid, then you have not nullified your Mormon baptism in you own mind. In your conscience, who you are, is where it matters.
 
PaulDupre said:
I am a Latin-Rite Taoist.😃
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You know it would be really funny if it it were not so sad that there are people that think they can piece work opposing religious percepts and still be faithful to any.
 
oneGODoneCHURCH said:
I don’t recall ever seeing any one but you claim to be both Mormon and Catholic. there may be those who have not formally had their names removed from the membership roles of the LDS, but I don’t belive they consider themselves LDS any longer

I will agree with you as There does not seem to be an official declaration that if you are or once were a member of another faith that you must formally leave it or formally renounce it. It is more just taken for granted that since different faith believe different things when you join one you are saying that you are no longer a member of any others, especial when they are fundamentally opposed on even the basic theology things such as the Trinity.
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It is in Canon Law:
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P53.HTM
It used to be specific to the Freemasons, but in 1983 it was revised to be more general, and it still prohibits membership in Freemasonry as well as other heretical sects.
 
Tsuzuki said:
“Can. 1374 A person who joins an association which plots against the Church is to be punished with a just penalty; however, a person who promotes or directs an association of this kind is to be punished with an interdict.”

…

Mormons aren’t plotting the downfall of the Catholic Church, so this does not seem to apply.
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You’ve noted the other canons–like canon 1371?

But actually I do think that Canon 1374 applies since if the Mormons weren’t hoping for the downfall of the Catholic Church, they wouldn’t be sending their “small army of missionaries” out and Catholics would not be targeted for their conversion.
 
Tsuzuki said:
“Can. 1374 A person who joins an association which plots against the Church is to be punished with a just penalty; however, a person who promotes or directs an association of this kind is to be punished with an interdict.”

To the best of my knowledge and experience, (aside from competing for followers, maybe) the LDS church has never plotted against the Catholic Church. In fact, the history of the Catholic Church in the Utah area shows a lot of cooperation.

Mormons aren’t plotting the downfall of the Catholic Church, so this does not seem to apply.
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That wasn’t the particular one I had in mind, but as AMDGtoo indicates it also applies.

But wait, there’s more!
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=21249&highlight=guest+protestant
One who is guilty of prohibited participation in [non-Catholic] religious rites is to be punished with a just penalty (canon 1365, 1983 Code).
 
1holycatholic said:
One who is guilty of prohibited participation in [non-Catholic] religious rites is to be punished with a just penalty (canon 1365, 1983 Code).
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What might that ‘just penalty’ be for a Catholic baptized as an infant who later is baptized into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as an adult?
 
VinnyDee78 said:
What might that ‘just penalty’ be for a Catholic baptized as an infant who later is baptized into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as an adult?
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vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/_P52.HTM
A valid baptism leaves an indelible spiritual mark ad aeternum and cannot be repeated. Providentially, LDS baptism is invalid and would not be sacrilege.

You should be in communion with the one Church founded by Christ, the Catholic Church. Contact The Diocese of Raleigh.
 
1holycatholic said:
You should be in communion with the one Church founded by Christ, the Catholic Church. Contact The Diocese of Raleigh.
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Thank you. But if you read my posts on other forums, you would know that that is not why I have come here.

If I can be of any assistance in answering your questions about Latter-day Saint doctrine, I would like to do so.

But keep in mind, I consider myself more of an Experiential Apologetic (if there is such a thing, it’s me) and am not an official spokesman for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I will tell you what I believe, have faith in, or know to be true. If all you can do is accuse, criticize and call names, then I’m not likely to acknowledge your vice.

I have a testimony of Christ and His restored gospel. What would you like to know?

Vinny
 
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