LDS: King Follett Sermon - WOW! WOW! WOW!

[1holycatholic]

Thank you. But if you read my posts on other forums, you would know that that is not why I have come here.

If I can be of any assistance in answering your questions about Latter-day Saint doctrine, I would like to do so.

But keep in mind, I consider myself more of an Experiential Apologetic (if there is such a thing, it’s me) and am not an official spokesman for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I will tell you what I believe, have faith in, or know to be true. If all you can do is accuse, criticize and call names, then I’m not likely to acknowledge your vice.

I have a testimony of Christ and His restored gospel. What would you like to know?

Vinny

Other forums as in non CAF?

How can something that cannot go away be restored?

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Thank you. But if you read my posts on other forums, you would know that that is not why I have come here.

If I can be of any assistance in answering your questions about Latter-day Saint doctrine, I would like to do so.

But keep in mind, I consider myself more of an Experiential Apologetic (if there is such a thing, it’s me) and am not an official spokesman for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I will tell you what I believe, have faith in, or know to be true. If all you can do is accuse, criticize and call names, then I’m not likely to acknowledge your vice.

I have a testimony of Christ and His restored gospel. What would you like to know?

Vinny

There is only one Gospel.

Jesus promised his Church that the Spirit would lead them into all truth.

If a different spirit is leading your church, then it is not teaching the gospel.

 

[VinnyDee78]

There is only one Gospel.

Jesus promised his Church that the Spirit would lead them into all truth. If a different spirit is leading your church, then it is not teaching the gospel.

It would be ignorant to think you have a corner on the market.

Good and decent people from all faiths, beliefs and backgrounds are having rich spiritual experience thinking they have the true gospel.

I suspect for the most part it is the same Spirit, same God… what do you make of it? Are they all deceived?

Your thoughts?

 

[AMDGtoo]

It would be ignorant to think you have a corner on the market

But it would be wrong to assume that Jesus is a liar. Jesus founded the Church and said and said that He would be with it until the end of time.

 

[VinnyDee78]

But it would be wrong to assume that Jesus is a liar.

Interesting choice of words… I wouldn’t put those words in the same sentence.

Consider this then - men of God (Pope, Prophet, city dweller, farmer, etc.) can be lead by that selfsame Spirit if they live by true principles. God did not say that we have to be right to receive the Spirit, but our hearts have to be right before him.

I know of faith healings among Catholics, Protestants, Latter-day Saints and others where faith is the key ingredient and this knowledge confirmed by the Spirit. Apostolic lineage means nothing to me, save God has worked His miracles for the person who exercises faith in Him.

Again, the principles of truth that carry with them divine promises will be fulfilled regardless of your religion (my belief with personal witnesses by the Spirit). I hope to shout the Pope is not intentionally leading the church deceptively and that he does indeed believe his calling is divine, just as sure as I am that my calling to teach adults on Sunday is similarly divine.

Where have you felt the Spirit that Latter-day Saints can not go?

V/R Vinny

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Where have you felt the Spirit that Latter-day Saints can not go?

V/R Vinny

Not only God can cause feelings of the Spirit.

The Spirit of Truth would not condone Smith’s slander of Christianity. Your Spirit must be a different Spirit.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

This sermon was given by Joseph Smith in memory of an LDS Elder named King Follett. It is taken directly from the LDS webpage, it is a classic of LDS literature.
Part 1
Part 2

Here are some quotes that I felt worth mentioning. I tried to put in only the essentials, so there actually gaps of unquoted text. YOU WILL BE STUNNED.

Not stunned - I’ve seen quotations from this Discourse before. Thanks for taking so much trouble though. Mormonism is not Christian, not in any sense - it merely uses Christian vocabulary. (Which is not to say that there are not Christians in Mormonism; but that will be despite the doctrines, which are sheer paganism.)​

 

[ronald_g_w]

Mormonism is not Christian, not in any sense - it merely uses Christian vocabulary. (Which is not to say that there are not Christians in Mormonism; but that will be despite the doctrines, which are sheer paganism.)​

Well then I’ve met more Christians in Mormonism than I have anywhere else

 

[why_me]

Well then I’ve met more Christians in Mormonism than I have anywhere else

True…so true. :tiphat:

 

[AMDGtoo]

Well then I’ve met more Christians in Mormonism than I have anywhere else

Guess you’ve met more “Christians” in atheism, secular humanism, New Age, paganism, et.al. as well. (You know that whether or not a person really is Christian is belief. The Trinity anyone? How about what Jesus actually said?)

 

[BartBurk]

Well then I’ve met more Christians in Mormonism than I have anywhere else

I’ve actually met more Christians in Catholicism than I have anywhere else. That is mostly because I’ve met more Catholics than anyone else. Of course I think it very difficult to judge as to whether one person is more “Christian” than another person because I don’t see what’s going on inside of a person.

 

[1holycatholic]

Guess you’ve met more “Christians” in atheism, secular humanism, New Age, paganism, et.al. as well. (You know that whether or not a person really is Christian is belief. The Trinity anyone? How about what Jesus actually said?)

What does the CCC say about that?

 

[truthsilence]

I’ve actually met more Christians in Catholicism than I have anywhere else. That is mostly because I’ve met more Catholics than anyone else. Of course I think it very difficult to judge as to whether one person is more “Christian” than another person because I don’t see what’s going on inside of a person.

Good point.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Well then I’ve met more Christians in Mormonism than I have anywhere else

That all depends on how you define “Christian,” and especially if you are using a theologically based definition or a simple name-association title which people prefer to go by.

Up until recently, the LDS distanced themselves from mainstream Christianity, and rightly so, because they considered themselves the only pure institution. Now, as an ingenious marketing plan, the LDS church has a huge campaign going where they want to identify themself as another “Christian” body just like the others so that they can gain acceptance and hopefully hook others. Those are false techniques and have no place in God’s One True Church.

 

[1holycatholic]

That all depends on how you define “Christian,” and especially if you are using a theologically based definition or a simple name-association title which people prefer to go by.

Up until recently, the LDS distanced themselves from mainstream Christianity, and rightly so, because they considered themselves the only pure institution. Now, as an ingenious marketing plan, the LDS church has a huge campaign going where they want to identify themself as another “Christian” body just like the others so that they can gain acceptance and hopefully hook others. Those are false techniques and have no place in God’s One True Church.

That’s the beauty of adhering to the bogus philosophical concept of nominalism - the LDS are Christian merely because they say so.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Well then I’ve met more Christians in Mormonism than I have anywhere else

I do not think that anyone has ever questioned that the LDS portray a lot of values that Christians are to posses. There are many very nice, generous, caring people out there. Those qualities do not make them Christian.

If they deny the truth and proclaim a Gospel other than that given by Jesus and handed to us from the Apostles then they are not Christians.

There are many things that the LDS teach that do not line up with Apostolic teaching. They need to be prayed for.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

That’s the beauty of adhering to the bogus philosophical concept of nominalism - the LDS are Christian merely because they say so.

:yyeess:

 

[ronald_g_w]

I’ve actually met more Christians in Catholicism than I have anywhere else. That is mostly because I’ve met more Catholics than anyone else. Of course I think it very difficult to judge as to whether one person is more “Christian” than another person because I don’t see what’s going on inside of a person.

Based on the fact that 50 % of my life so far was Catholic and the balance Mormon (all I knew about the mormons was what I saw in the movies to that point) I feel that my original coment to be fair is based on the fruits that I see in the individual and I see more Mormons striving to live a Christ Like life than I do others and this is looking at individuals out side of Church in the work place, we are told that we will know them by their fruits. Please do not get me wrong for there are many in all faiths who are honestly striving to do their best, if you look at it percentage wise I believe the Mormons fare well

Of course I think it very difficult to judge as to whether one person is more “Christian” than another person because I don’t see what’s going on inside of a person

You do not want to know whats going on inside of me that’s where the real enemy is Hopefully I am not judging just observing and thinking out loud

 

[AMDGtoo]

Based on the fact that 50 % of my life so far was Catholic and the balance Mormon (all I knew about the mormons was what I saw in the movies to that point) I feel that my original coment to be fair is based on the fruits that I see in the individual and I see more Mormons striving to live a Christ Like life than I do others and this is looking at individuals out side of Church in the work place, we are told that we will know them by their fruits.

Are you sure that “knowing them by their fruits” means that “you will know whether they are Christian or hold pagan beliefs by appearances”. Maybe it means something else.

I have met quite a few atheists and agnostics who act kindly (what some would call “Christian”) but who obviously aren’t Christian. I have also met some LDS who couldn’t be called kind by any stretch of the imagination–and we know that LDS documents call themselves “a peculiar people” and we know that the LDS hold pretty pagan ideas (like many gods, etc.) not Christian ideas at all no matter how much they’d like to hide behind the name.

 

[VinnyDee78]

Not only God can cause feelings of the Spirit.

The Spirit of Truth would not condone Smith’s slander of Christianity. Your Spirit must be a different Spirit.

You avoided the question. I am talking about the Holy Spirit.

Yes you can be deceived, but God is love and so shall it accompany the feeling. The Spirit also warns and reproves.

Again, where have you felt the Spirit where Latter-day Saints can not go?