H
hs_hopeful
Guest
If a child dies, is he or she destined to spend eternity in a “lower level”, simply because they were never married, in spite of the fact that they were not old enough for marriage?
- Status
M
Marie5890
Guest
According to LDS teaching, they will have the opportunity to marry during the Millennium. All kinds of temple work is believed to be done during that time.
ONLY people who are married are exalted reach the highest level of the Celestial kingdom, as per LDS teaching.
(Unless that teaching, too, has changed)
H
Horton
Guest
And yet another conundrum about sealing and LDS theory of heaven. To be exalted you must be married so if mom & dad do everything right but the whole family dies in a house fire before any of the children can marry then only mom & dad get to the highest level, the kids are left to chance
How about a young woman who unfortunately dies the day before she is to be married. She is then forever denied exaltation through no fault of her own?
I just don’t get it
How about a young woman who unfortunately dies the day before she is to be married. She is then forever denied exaltation through no fault of her own?
I just don’t get it
M
Marie5890
Guest
In LDS theology, one will still be able to be sealed to someone even after this life. During the Millennium all kinds of temple work will be done.
So no, even in the circumstances that have been suggested does not mean that a woman or children will be denied the highest level of the CK.
So no, even in the circumstances that have been suggested does not mean that a woman or children will be denied the highest level of the CK.
M
Marie5890
Guest
No, she would not be denied. She will have other opportunities in the next life, according to LDS theologyHow about a young woman who unfortunately dies the day before she is to be married. She is then forever denied exaltation through no fault of her own?
M
Marie5890
Guest
No, they would not be denied.
Mormon theology allows for opportunities for being married, sealed, in the next life and during the millennial reign.
H
Horton
Guest
I think I like the Christianity theory of heaven much better. 
Z
zaffiroborant
Guest
Me too, it has far and away more hope and potential! Mormon heaven seems so lacking in hope, understanding, and imagination. It is nothing more than what we have in this life, with out end.I think I like the Christianity theory of heaven much better.
V
veilofveronica
Guest
From my almost-one year experience as LDS…I can tell you…
-A LOT of emphasis was on families being together forever, which sounds great, but you don’t know about the conditions until much later…if at all. For example, my spouse is Catholic.when I was Mormon, we could not be sealed unless he converted, nor could my daughter be sealed to us. the Mormon bishop (like a pastor) kept trying to come up with ways to make my husband convert, and was sneaky about it, like asking him to attend talks that he felt would move him spiritually or to get involved in the social activities. They only told me they wanted him to convert, but wouldn’t tell him that straight out.
-I asked about our situation if my husband didn’t convert. Supposedly, after death, my husband would be taught “the (LDS) Gospel” and have the opportunity to be sealed to me if someone did our work on earth, or in the millenium (when Christ returns) if no one did the work for us. However, he has free will…so if he chose not to be convert, I’d have to be sealed off to worthy Mormon man…or men…in order to inherit the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, which involves becoming a god yourself.
The lack of transparency bothered me tremendously. A well-trained member or missionary will tell you this is because they teach “line upon line, precept upon precept”…but it honestly seemed to be like “the pitch” is made showing all the good things about the religion, and the odder or hazier doctrines, or less attractive ones, are left until AFTER you join. I was baptized within a month of inquiring about the church. They really push you to get baptized…it tends to happen in a whirlwind for most people.
Then once you’re in, you’re told it’s a matter of “Free choice” what you do, but dangle ideas like the Celestial Kingdom in front of you for a reason to “choose the right” which includes many rules that need to be strictly followed to be temple worthy.
I found that the community was great and the people very nice and supportive as a general rule, but that most of the theology, when held up to true scrutiny, simply doesn’t hold up. I think I was too well-trained by my Jesuit teachers in critical thinking to stay too long.
-A LOT of emphasis was on families being together forever, which sounds great, but you don’t know about the conditions until much later…if at all. For example, my spouse is Catholic.when I was Mormon, we could not be sealed unless he converted, nor could my daughter be sealed to us. the Mormon bishop (like a pastor) kept trying to come up with ways to make my husband convert, and was sneaky about it, like asking him to attend talks that he felt would move him spiritually or to get involved in the social activities. They only told me they wanted him to convert, but wouldn’t tell him that straight out.
-I asked about our situation if my husband didn’t convert. Supposedly, after death, my husband would be taught “the (LDS) Gospel” and have the opportunity to be sealed to me if someone did our work on earth, or in the millenium (when Christ returns) if no one did the work for us. However, he has free will…so if he chose not to be convert, I’d have to be sealed off to worthy Mormon man…or men…in order to inherit the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, which involves becoming a god yourself.
- I was very insulted that they viewed my Catholic marriage as “a civil marriage” only and not really a Godly one. They feel that the only way to be truly “married” in God’s eyes is to be sealed.
-Children under age 8 that die automatically inherit the celestial kingdom…however, they have to be sealed to their parents to be with them forever, and at least one parent has to honor all their covenants while on earth. Mormons believe that all spirits in the afterlife are adults and will come back to be raised by their parents again (as children) or will be married as adults in the millenium…that is muddied to me, it was never explained very far.
The lack of transparency bothered me tremendously. A well-trained member or missionary will tell you this is because they teach “line upon line, precept upon precept”…but it honestly seemed to be like “the pitch” is made showing all the good things about the religion, and the odder or hazier doctrines, or less attractive ones, are left until AFTER you join. I was baptized within a month of inquiring about the church. They really push you to get baptized…it tends to happen in a whirlwind for most people.
Then once you’re in, you’re told it’s a matter of “Free choice” what you do, but dangle ideas like the Celestial Kingdom in front of you for a reason to “choose the right” which includes many rules that need to be strictly followed to be temple worthy.
I found that the community was great and the people very nice and supportive as a general rule, but that most of the theology, when held up to true scrutiny, simply doesn’t hold up. I think I was too well-trained by my Jesuit teachers in critical thinking to stay too long. 
V
veilofveronica
Guest
Bingo. Mormon theology seems to bring God down to our level, not the other way around…which they argue makes God more “personal”, but we already have that gift in Jesus Christ.
In LDS doctrine, heaven seems to be more of a reflection of earth than the other way around.
H
Horton
Guest
Bolding mine. So it is LDS belief that unless one is sealed to their spouse it isn’t really a true marriage?From my almost-one year experience as LDS…I can tell you…
-A LOT of emphasis was on families being together forever, which sounds great, but you don’t know about the conditions until much later…if at all. For example, my spouse is Catholic.when I was Mormon, we could not be sealed unless he converted, nor could my daughter be sealed to us. the Mormon bishop (like a pastor) kept trying to come up with ways to make my husband convert, and was sneaky about it, like asking him to attend talks that he felt would move him spiritually or to get involved in the social activities. They only told me they wanted him to convert, but wouldn’t tell him that straight out.
-I asked about our situation if my husband didn’t convert. Supposedly, after death, my husband would be taught “the (LDS) Gospel” and have the opportunity to be sealed to me if someone did our work on earth, or in the millenium (when Christ returns) if no one did the work for us. However, he has free will…so if he chose not to be convert, I’d have to be sealed off to worthy Mormon man…or men…in order to inherit the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, which involves becoming a god yourself.
-** I was very insulted that they viewed my Catholic marriage as “a civil marriage” only and not really a Godly one. They feel that the only way to be truly “married” in God’s eyes is to be sealed.**
-Children under age 8 that die automatically inherit the celestial kingdom…however, they have to be sealed to their parents to be with them forever, and at least one parent has to honor all their covenants while on earth. Mormons believe that all spirits in the afterlife are adults and will come back to be raised by their parents again (as children) or will be married as adults in the millenium…that is muddied to me, it was never explained very far.
If someone like me leaves the LDS Church and cancels their membership (which, in LDS theology, also “cancels” your baptism…you have to be re baptized if you want to go back) and never returns, you’re considered an apostate and banned to “outer darkness” (i.e. hell) because you once heard “the truth” and then rejected it. This is something most don’t talk about, either.
The lack of transparency bothered me tremendously. A well-trained member or missionary will tell you this is because they teach “line upon line, precept upon precept”…but it honestly seemed to be like “the pitch” is made showing all the good things about the religion, and the odder or hazier doctrines, or less attractive ones, are left until AFTER you join. I was baptized within a month of inquiring about the church. They really push you to get baptized…it tends to happen in a whirlwind for most people.
Then once you’re in, you’re told it’s a matter of “Free choice” what you do, but dangle ideas like the Celestial Kingdom in front of you for a reason to “choose the right” which includes many rules that need to be strictly followed to be temple worthy.
I found that the community was great and the people very nice and supportive as a general rule, but that most of the theology, when held up to true scrutiny, simply doesn’t hold up. I think I was too well-trained by my Jesuit teachers in critical thinking to stay too long.
The LDS do great in sales. Many are successful in multi level marketing schemes and “investment” sales. Having lived in predominantly LDS communities it wasn’t uncommon for such schemes to fall apart and someone ending up in jail while others lose everything they have.
G
gazelam
Guest
LDS believe God recognizes all heterosexual marriages performed by a legally recognized authority - both civil and religious - as legitimate while both spouses are alive. LDS believe that marriages not sealed in an LDS temple end at death, while those sealed endure forever.
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Tannhauser_1509
Guest
What, then, is the fundamental nature of marriage in LDS teaching? If one variety withers away and dies fruitlessly while the other is eternally vivifying, how can you say we’re even remotely talking about marriage at all in the former variety? It’s just a societal convenience in that case, yes? Why recognize it as legitimate at all when the two spouses are both living if marriage is, by your definition, an eternally endowed principle of nature that can not be conceded to mere temporal institutions?
J
jane_doe
Guest
Are you asking how can a church recognize two people as being married just because 1 is not a good disciple of Christ? Because they are married- that is simply an acknowledgement of fact.
Now, if the sacrament has been done sealing their marriage, and do the participants honor that sacrament-- that’s a different question.
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Brandon_Cal
Guest
I may’ve missed your point, but are you asking why there’s this bifurcation in ‘types’ of marriage in LDS thought? If so, I could see a Mormon retorting that it’s a bit analogous to the distinction had among orthodox Christians between a sacramental and a natural marriage.
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Horton
Guest
They could try to link the two but it’s more like comparing apples and oranges. One’s salvation is not dependent on the type of marriage they have for Catholics. In addition a Catholic can be married to a non-Catholic and still have a sacramental marriage where the same can not be said for the LDS. A non-LDS person can not be sealed to an LDS partner so if the LDS partner if female she will be assigned to an LDS man for eternity. If the LDS partner is male, well if he is “exalted” he will receive his LDS wife (wives) in heaven.
T
Tannhauser_1509
Guest
It is certainly apples and oranges. Christ elevated the dignity of marriage. Marriage has been the same in essence since the beginning of its institution, whether before or after Christ sacramentalized it.
There is an important distinction between a sacramental marriage and a non-sacramental marriage, to be sure; but that is quite different from the distinction between eternal and non-eternal marriages in the LDS framework: the former are profitable while the latter are utterly useless.
H
Hatikvah
Guest
Same. Less… complex…???I think I like the Christianity theory of heaven much better.
H
Horton
Guest
The Christian heaven is true and theologically sound.
H
Hatikvah
Guest
Plus, we get the Beatific Vision!
- Status