LDS priesthood Part 2

[kimg901]

The first was deleted because some of us were uncharitable. So lets try this again. I found a non-catholic web page Gaz that talks about a certain priesthood (I cant remember how to type it ) that we were discussing.

gci.org/bible/hebrews7

To me it sounds like it wasnt passed on to anyone. Your thoughts Gaz?

 

[Janderich]

Priesthood… what an important topic. I did not see the original thread but maybe we should start more simply then Melchizedek. How about this: What is priesthood? As LDS we believe priesthood is the power of God. It is the power by which worlds are upheld and were made. By it, God rules the universe. Do Catholic’s believe the same?

 

[kimg901]

Priesthood… what an important topic. I did not see the original thread but maybe we should start more simply then Melchizedek. How about this: What is priesthood? As LDS we believe priesthood is the power of God. It is the power by which worlds are upheld and were made. By it, God rules the universe. Do Catholic’s believe the same?

Hi Jan. The Melchizedek is where the previous thread left off at (well deleted) and Gaz and I where talking about it. Im not too sure what it even is so I did a little research on it.
As for “what is priesthood”. Yes, its Gods Will throught Christ Jesus ( virtute ac persona ipsius Christi) to have an established priesthood on earth (I dont believe “worlds though” but we will know when we leave this earth) So in a sense, yes, us Catholics kind of believe the same, but not as the LDS do in some matters.

 

[Janderich]

Hi Jan. The Melchizedek is where the previous thread left off at (well deleted) and Gaz and I where talking about it. Im not too sure what it even is so I did a little research on it.
As for “what is priesthood”. Yes, its Gods Will throught Christ Jesus ( virtute ac persona ipsius Christi) to have an established priesthood on earth (I dont believe “worlds though” but we will know when we leave this earth) So in a sense, yes, us Catholics kind of believe the same, but not as the LDS do in some matters.

Sorry to disrupt, I figured you were discussing the Melchizedek priesthood. I’ve just been on a thread or two here about Melchizedek and they have revolved around who Melchizedek was and if he even existed. But the real important question in my mind is about priesthood itself. Is it the power of God or is it simply some mortal institution? If it is the power of God then the next question would be, does God give his power to man and exactly how does he do it?

Thanks for you answer. It sounds like Catholics agree to some extent that priesthood is the power of God but I’m not to clear on where the differences lie between LDS and Catholic belief. At any rate, I don’t mean to derail the thread.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Priesthood… what an important topic. I did not see the original thread but maybe we should start more simply then Melchizedek. How about this: What is priesthood? As LDS we believe priesthood is the power of God. It is the power by which worlds are upheld and were made. By it, God rules the universe. Do Catholic’s believe the same?

It sounds as though you are saying God has his power through the priesthood?

 

[kimg901]

Sorry to disrupt, I figured you were discussing the Melchizedek priesthood. I’ve just been on a thread or two here about Melchizedek and they have revolved around who Melchizedek was and if he even existed. But the real important question in my mind is about priesthood itself. Is it the power of God or is it simply some mortal institution? If it is the power of God then the next question would be, does God give his power to man and exactly how does he do it?

Thanks for you answer. It sounds like Catholics agree to some extent that priesthood is the power of God but I’m not to clear on where the differences lie between LDS and Catholic belief. At any rate, I don’t mean to derail the thread.

Its okay. You didnt derail anything. I posted it for Gaz but all replys are welcome. The differences would be other worlds and the priesthood holding the world together. There may be others but im not concerned about them. As far as power given and how, through Christ and the Holy Spirit. Christ had/has the authority to have given it to His Apostles. After His Death & Resurrection, He sent His Advocate (Holy Spirit) to give the priesthood to men. This it what I understood from reading the CCC about the priesthood.

 

[TexanKnight]

Its okay. You didnt derail anything. I posted it for Gaz but all replys are welcome. The differences would be other worlds and the priesthood holding the world together. There may be others but im not concerned about them. As far as power given and how, through Christ and the Holy Spirit. Christ had/has the authority to have given it to His Apostles. After His Death & Resurrection, He sent His Advocate (Holy Spirit) to give the priesthood to men. This it what I understood from reading the CCC about the priesthood.

I guess a good place to start is, if the Mel. Priesthood is so important…why did we not see Jesus confer it on the Apostles in NONE of the Gospels?

 

[kimg901]

I guess a good place to start is, if the Mel. Priesthood is so important…why did we not see Jesus confer it on the Apostles in NONE of the Gospels?

Yes, this is true. I want to hear others thoughts on this subject first since I do not know alot about it. But your point is valid TK. No where in the NT is it talked about or given to by Christ.

 

[RebeccaJ]

It sounds as though you are saying God has his power through the priesthood?

I’d say that is accurate, as Joseph Smith had a view of priesthood that is occult (and pagan) in nature.

 

[gazelam]

I guess a good place to start is, if the Mel. Priesthood is so important…why did we not see Jesus confer it on the Apostles in NONE of the Gospels?

Mark 3:14, 15 (KJV)

1. And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach,

15 And to have power to heal sicknesses, and to cast out devils:

See also Matthew 10:1, John 15:16

Ordain - Make (someone) a priest or minister; confer holy orders on

My understanding is that catholic bishops and priests are in the “Order of Melchizedek”, right? (catholicexchange.com/the-order-of-melchizedek/) So wouldn’t it follow that a church claiming apostolic succession would assume that the apostles were ordained to the Melchizedek Order of the priesthood, sunce that’s the order of its current priesthood?

In LDS theology, “Apostle” is an office within the Melchizedek priesthood. I hope this helps.

 

[gazelam]

The first was deleted because some of us were uncharitable. So lets try this again. I found a non-catholic web page Gaz that talks about a certain priesthood (I cant remember how to type it ) that we were discussing.

gci.org/bible/hebrews7

To me it sounds like it wasnt passed on to anyone. Your thoughts Gaz?

My thoughts…

There is lots of nitpicking that could be done regarding this link. In general, the author argues that the new law requires a new priesthood and that the Aaronic priesthood is not needed. An LDS view would be that the Aaronic priesthood duties changed (since animal sacrifice was abolished) and lineage requirements changed, but the Aaronic priesthood itself was not abolished. The author did not address Exodus 29:9 (“perpetual statute” and all that).

Some nitpicking…

The author refers to the need for a “new” priesthood for a new law, but correctly identifies that new priesthood with Melchizedek who lived hundreds of years before Aaron, so the Melchizedek priesthood is not so new.

The author quotes Hebrews 7:3, which referring to Melchizedek states “Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.”

That verse makes it sound like Melchizedek has no parents!! However, Joseph Smith rides to the rescue!

His correction is “For this Melchizedek was ordained a priest after the order of the Son of God, which order was without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life. And all those who are ordained unto this priesthood are made like unto the Son of God, abiding a priest continually.”

So it’s the priesthood which had no beginning or end, not Melchizedek (per the Joseph Smith translation.)

An additional LDS insight regarding the true name of the Melchizedek Priesthood…

LDS scripture D&C 107:1-4 states the real name and why it was changed.

1 There are, in the church, two priesthoods, namely, the Melchizedek and Aaronic, including the Levitical Priesthood.

2 Why the first is called the Melchizedek Priesthood is because Melchizedek was such a great high priest.

3 Before his day it was called the Holy Priesthood, after the Order of the Son of God.

4 But out of respect or reverence to the name of the Supreme Being, to avoid the too frequent repetition of his name, they, the church, in ancient days, called that priesthood after Melchizedek, or the Melchizedek Priesthood.

I hope this helps…

 

[Stephen168]

Priesthood… what an important topic. I did not see the original thread but maybe we should start more simply then Melchizedek. How about this: What is priesthood? As LDS we believe priesthood is the power of God. It is the power by which worlds are upheld and were made. By it, God rules the universe. Do Catholic’s believe the same?

A priest is a male who offers sacrifices.

 

[Stephen168]

Sorry to disrupt, I figured you were discussing the Melchizedek priesthood. I’ve just been on a thread or two here about Melchizedek and they have revolved around who Melchizedek was and if he even existed. But the real important question in my mind is about priesthood itself. Is it the power of God or is it simply some mortal institution? If it is the power of God then the next question would be, does God give his power to man and exactly how does he do it?

Thanks for you answer. It sounds like Catholics agree to some extent that priesthood is the power of God but I’m not to clear on where the differences lie between LDS and Catholic belief. At any rate, I don’t mean to derail the thread.

Priesthood authority is given by Christ.

 

[Stephen168]

The first was deleted because some of us were uncharitable. So lets try this again. I found a non-catholic web page Gaz that talks about a certain priesthood (I cant remember how to type it ) that we were discussing.

gci.org/bible/hebrews7

To me it sounds like it wasnt passed on to anyone. Your thoughts Gaz?

I don’t think there is a Melchizedek Priesthood.

 

[kimg901]

I don’t think there is a Melchizedek Priesthood.

Thats what im trying to figure out. Scripture only talks about it in a small paragraph. The person that holds it has no begining nor an end. The only one we know like this is God. Its really a trying subject to understand. Seems like 95% of the material I pull up has to do with the LDS church.

 

[Janderich]

It sounds as though you are saying God has his power through the priesthood?

Priesthood is the name of God’s power and is the means through which he governs. It is also the order through which mortals obtain any power from God.

 

[Janderich]

A priest is a male who offers sacrifices.

Priesthood authority is given by Christ.

Is there power associated with this authority? If so, what?

 

[RebeccaJ]

My understanding is there was one priesthood in the OT. A priests role was to make sacrifices on behalf of the people, in reparations for their sins.

Melchezideck appears only once, as a priest who is higher than Abram, indicatd by Abram offering a tithe. The high priest feeds Abram. Where the OT priests were patrilineal, Melchezideck is described as having no parentage.

In this, we understand Melchezidek to be a type of Christ, and his appearance as a theophany.

In Hebrews it is made clear that the priesthood that Melchezideck represents exists in Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ alone. There is no need for a priestly line, such as the Levites, because Christ is risen and is the eternal priest.

The priesthood is sacramental in nature, where a priest is ordained to minister to the people, and make present the one perfect sacrifice of our High Priest, Jesus Christ.

 

[Stephen168]

Thats what im trying to figure out. Scripture only talks about it in a small paragraph. The person that holds it has no begining nor an end. The only one we know like this is God. Its really a trying subject to understand. Seems like 95% of the material I pull up has to do with the LDS church.

Yes, order means to group like things. So the order of Melchizedek is someone like him. We see in Hebrews that the person like him is Jesus Christ.

 

[TexanKnight]

No response to my point regarding NT shows they have to answer.