LDS Question - How does Baptism of the Dead and the Second Coming come together?

[Xavierlives]

To understand this you need to think about one moment in time. That moment is the day before Christ’s return.

Mormons are busy baptizing by proxy. Long lists are being researched, long lists are being submitted, long lists are being processed, long lists of baptisms are being created.

Bam. Christ Returns.

Aren’t there long lists of unbaptized people now left out from being baptized?
Do all of these lists need to be completed before any action by Christ?
If so, wouldn’t the perpetual nature of these types of lists defeat the Second coming?

In the same vein, aren’t we told to not waste our time with useless geneologies (Titus 3:9 & 1 Tim 1:4)?

 

[ParkerD]

To understand this you need to think about one moment in time. That moment is the day before Christ’s return.

Mormons are busy baptizing by proxy. Long lists are being researched, long lists are being submitted, long lists are being processed, long lists of baptisms are being created.

Bam. Christ Returns.

Aren’t there long lists of unbaptized people now left out from being baptized?
Do all of these lists need to be completed before any action by Christ?
If so, wouldn’t the perpetual nature of these types of lists defeat the Second coming?

In the same vein, aren’t we told to not waste our time with useless geneologies (Titus 3:9 & 1 Tim 1:4)?

Xavierlives,
What a fun laugh! Thanks–the terms “fables and endless genealogies” and “foolish questions and genealogies and contentions” place the word “genealogies” in a funny context if you turn around and compare Matthew 1. I think the context presents a different meaning than a pedigree chart in what Paul was teaching. Matthew certainly considered the pedigree of Christ (His royal Davidic descent) important.

I recently had the grandchild of my fifth great grandparents sealed to her parents who had died from falling into a well when she was four years old, and had been left off previous temple work. She didn’t need to be baptized, only sealed to her parents, and afterward in the celestial room I was able to feel the rejoicing of the family and their gratitude.

The beginning of the Millenium will bring important developments in the major work of family history research and temple work for those who have died in the distant past. It doesn’t all need to be completed before Christ returns to the earth. At that time, with more spiritual awareness and with resurrected people being available to converse with righteous people and to restore that which has been lost in records and knowledge of families, then there will be a much more concerted effort by those with the “spirit of Elijah” with them, to find all the missing ancestors and their children and grandchildren going up every family line, and as their work is done in temples they can receive the Holy Spirit if they choose to receive that gift, and that means they can progress with their knowledge growth much quicker and become prepared for their resurrection. When they are ready, then resurrections will be happening throughout the Millenium.

There will be a lot of rejoicing in the spirit world when all of this is happening on the earth, while those who are not interested will simply not be aware (in the spirit world) that it is going on because the knowledge of it happening will be among only those who have the desire to have had their work done, thus having their desire lead to exercising faith and being allowed to “see”. The non-interested spirits will be oblivious to that temple work being done, so it will make not the slightest difference to them.

 

[Xavierlives]

Xavierlives,
What a fun laugh! Thanks–the terms “fables and endless genealogies” and “foolish questions and genealogies and contentions” place the word “genealogies” in a funny context if you turn around and compare Matthew 1. I think the context presents a different meaning than a pedigree chart in what Paul was teaching. Matthew certainly considered the pedigree of Christ (His royal Davidic descent) important.

I recently had the grandchild of my fifth great grandparents sealed to her parents who had died from falling into a well when she was four years old, and had been left off previous temple work. She didn’t need to be baptized, only sealed to her parents, and afterward in the celestial room I was able to feel the rejoicing of the family and their gratitude.

The beginning of the Millenium will bring important developments in the major work of family history research and temple work for those who have died in the distant past. It doesn’t all need to be completed before Christ returns to the earth. At that time, with more spiritual awareness and with resurrected people being available to converse with righteous people and to restore that which has been lost in records and knowledge of families, then there will be a much more concerted effort by those with the “spirit of Elijah” with them, to find all the missing ancestors and their children and grandchildren going up every family line, and as their work is done in temples they can receive the Holy Spirit if they choose to receive that gift, and that means they can progress with their knowledge growth much quicker and become prepared for their resurrection. When they are ready, then resurrections will be happening throughout the Millenium.

There will be a lot of rejoicing in the spirit world when all of this is happening on the earth, while those who are not interested will simply not be aware (in the spirit world) that it is going on because the knowledge of it happening will be among only those who have the desire to have had their work done, thus having their desire lead to exercising faith and being allowed to “see”. The non-interested spirits will be oblivious to that temple work being done, so it will make not the slightest difference to them.

Maybe it is just late, but are you saying that during the millenium the dead will be talking with the living to get them (the dead) to be included in the baptisms that are being conducted during the millenium?

As for Christ’s lineage. Well that would be somewhat important since that is a prophecy. After Christ’s lineage (and the destruction of the temple), it seems like geneology is then deemed as something not worthy of our time (and also I think were written before the destruction of the temple) and the finalization of “no need to keep up with geneology.”

 

[ParkerD]

Maybe it is just late, but are you saying that during the millenium the dead will be talking with the living to get them (the dead) to be included in the baptisms that are being conducted during the millenium?

As for Christ’s lineage. Well that would be somewhat important since that is a prophecy. After Christ’s lineage (and the destruction of the temple), it seems like geneology is then deemed as something not worthy of our time (and also I think were written before the destruction of the temple) and the finalization of “no need to keep up with geneology.”

Xavierlives,
As far as the two verses you cited, I really think if you want to be a serious student of the Bible and figure out what those verses mean, then you would want to find out what the verses said in the original Greek and what the potential translations of the word from the Greek were that a translator had to choose from to come up with the words “endless genealogies” since it reads to me like that ties to the word “fables” and the words “vain jangling: desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.”

In answer to your first question here, you might as well become aware about two things:

1. There will be a resurrection of the righteous at the beginning of the Millenium when Christ returns to the earth in His glory, and some of them will communicate with the living who are also righteous. (By the way, no one is “dead” in the eyes of God.)
2. From time to time, spirits have communicated with the living when they had the faith necessary and the living person had the faith necessary and there was a specific reason that was a righteous reason. For example, some of the United States Founding Fathers presented the idea (in a dream) to Wilford Woodruff (if my memory serves correctly as to which LDS leader) that their temple work needed to be done because they had been faithful in their assignment from God in the pre-mortal life in that the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and the Revolutionary War brought about the purposes of God on the earth.

A mother who was grieving that her son had been killed when working for a train company and somehow falling under the train, was visited by the son (in a dream) from the spirit world so that she and his father would stop grieving and know that he was where he needed to be for the purposes of God.

There are many such examples, but those are two I am willing to share–others, (some within my own family), I think I will not share, as they are private matters and sacred matters that really should not be “bandied about”. (The two above have been stated in published articles, so I was willing to share them with you.)

Have a good day.

 

[Xavierlives]

Xavierlives,
As far as the two verses you cited, I really think if you want to be a serious student of the Bible and figure out what those verses mean, then you would want to find out what the verses said in the original Greek and what the potential translations of the word from the Greek were that a translator had to choose from to come up with the words “endless genealogies” since it reads to me like that ties to the word “fables” and the words “vain jangling: desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.”

In answer to your first question here, you might as well become aware about two things:

1. There will be a resurrection of the righteous at the beginning of the Millenium when Christ returns to the earth in His glory, and some of them will communicate with the living who are also righteous. (By the way, no one is “dead” in the eyes of God.)
2. From time to time, spirits have communicated with the living when they had the faith necessary and the living person had the faith necessary and there was a specific reason that was a righteous reason. For example, some of the United States Founding Fathers presented the idea (in a dream) to Wilford Woodruff (if my memory serves correctly as to which LDS leader) that their temple work needed to be done because they had been faithful in their assignment from God in the pre-mortal life in that the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and the Revolutionary War brought about the purposes of God on the earth.

A mother who was grieving that her son had been killed when working for a train company and somehow falling under the train, was visited by the son (in a dream) from the spirit world so that she and his father would stop grieving and know that he was where he needed to be for the purposes of God.

There are many such examples, but those are two I am willing to share–others, (some within my own family), I think I will not share, as they are private matters and sacred matters that really should not be “bandied about”. (The two above have been stated in published articles, so I was willing to share them with you.)

Have a good day.

While I am a serious student of the Bible, I can say that it will be a long way off before I can ever tackle Greek. Latin and Spanish seem to be the outer reaches of my mind right now. Luckily I can alway go to a pastor for help.

 

[Xavierlives]

Xavierlives,
As far as the two verses you cited, I really think if you want to be a serious student of the Bible and figure out what those verses mean, then you would want to find out what the verses said in the original Greek and what the potential translations of the word from the Greek were that a translator had to choose from to come up with the words “endless genealogies” since it reads to me like that ties to the word “fables” and the words “vain jangling: desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.”

In answer to your first question here, you might as well become aware about two things:

1. There will be a resurrection of the righteous at the beginning of the Millenium when Christ returns to the earth in His glory, and some of them will communicate with the living who are also righteous. (By the way, no one is “dead” in the eyes of God.)

Really? If we were not dead to him, then why did he come to give eternal life? That implies he is giving us something we did not have. I was not implying Christian experience a spiritual death (unless you want to count our baptism as a death a rebirth). But really the death I was referring was to this bag of bones we carry around.

1. From time to time, spirits have communicated with the living when they had the faith necessary and the living person had the faith necessary and there was a specific reason that was a righteous reason. For example, some of the United States Founding Fathers presented the idea (in a dream) to Wilford Woodruff (if my memory serves correctly as to which LDS leader) that their temple work needed to be done because they had been faithful in their assignment from God in the pre-mortal life in that the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and the Revolutionary War brought about the purposes of God on the earth.

A mother who was grieving that her son had been killed when working for a train company and somehow falling under the train, was visited by the son (in a dream) from the spirit world so that she and his father would stop grieving and know that he was where he needed to be for the purposes of God.

There are many such examples, but those are two I am willing to share–others, (some within my own family), I think I will not share, as they are private matters and sacred matters that really should not be “bandied about”. (The two above have been stated in published articles, so I was willing to share them with you.)

Have a good day.