LDS Question - What happens to people who leave the church?

[Xavierlives]

Is there excommunication in the Mormon Church, similar to the Catholic Church?

 

[HaroldCares]

Yes. (I had been raised in a Mormon family but I have since converted to Catholic.) It is possible to be excommunicated as a Mormon but it is difficult. Excommunication for most faiths is a last resort discilpline. To be excommunicated from the LDS church, you really have to petition for it. The LDS would rather you become inactive, or even an apostate, but still the LDS church would want to leave the ability for someone to return to the fold.

The LDS and Catholic churches are very organized religious bodies. Both share a zeal for faith sharing. The structure of their church government is remakably similair. And both the LDS and Catholic church share very similar social views. In a social context, the LDS and Catholic church may be more alike then either of them are with our Protestant bretheren.

Of course the distinction between the LDS and Catholics are dogma and tradition.

 

[beeliner]

Is there excommunication in the Mormon Church, similar to the Catholic Church?

Why not ask a Mormon?

 

[HaroldCares]

Yes. (I had been raised in a Mormon family but I have since converted to Catholic.) It is possible to be excommunicated as a Mormon but it is difficult. Excommunication for most faiths is a last resort discilpline. To be excommunicated from the LDS church, you really have to petition for it. The LDS would rather you become inactive, or even an apostate, but still the LDS church would want to leave the ability for someone to return to the fold.

The LDS and Catholic churches are very organized religious bodies. Both share a zeal for faith sharing. The structure of their church government is remakably similair. And both the LDS and Catholic church share very similar social views. In a social context, the LDS and Catholic church may be more alike then either of them are with our Protestant bretheren.

Of course the distinction between the LDS and Catholics are dogma and tradition.

 

[Xavierlives]

Yes. (I had been raised in a Mormon family but I have since converted to Catholic.) It is possible to be excommunicated as a Mormon but it is difficult. Excommunication for most faiths is a last resort discilpline. To be excommunicated from the LDS church, you really have to petition for it. The LDS would rather you become inactive, or even an apostate, but still the LDS church would want to leave the ability for someone to return to the fold.

The LDS and Catholic churches are very organized religious bodies. Both share a zeal for faith sharing. The structure of their church government is remakably similair. And both the LDS and Catholic church share very similar social views. In a social context, the LDS and Catholic church may be more alike then either of them are with our Protestant bretheren.

Of course the distinction between the LDS and Catholics are dogma and tradition.

So they have to ask to be excommunicated?

 

[missoboe]

Xavierlives,

I’d be more than happy to explain the process of excommunication in the LDS church. If someone is desirous of leaving the church, then their name will still remain on record until they sign a letter stating that they would like their name removed.

In disciplinary councils there are several routes the situation can go. In these council’s the first and for most concern is for the sake of the soul involved. Second is the reputation of the name of the church.

When a counsel is convened there are several ways they can decide. They can choose to take no action, informal probation, disfellowshipment, and excommunication.

Informal probation means that they person involved will follow the steps of repentance given by the leaders, and that they can continue their membership as usual.

Disfellowshipment- means that the individual is still a member of record; however, they are asked to not participate. By this I mean that they are asked to not pray in public, offer class comments, take the sacrament, or hold church callings until the matter is resolved.

Excommunication: Occurs when repentance is best facilitated by having their removal from church or the actions of the member are severe. In this case the member will have a cancellation of their baptismal and any other ordinance. In order for this person to become a member again, they will need to receive approval from the First Presidency (Highest Church leadership) and be re baptized and have their ordinances reinstated.

Church Council’s are not like courts, but rather a discussion involving the individual to try and determine how the person can best be helped.In all of these situations, Church leadership prays and asks God the best course of action to help the soul.

I hope this helps!!!

 

[Xavierlives]

Xavierlives,

I’d be more than happy to explain the process of excommunication in the LDS church. If someone is desirous of leaving the church, then their name will still remain on record until they sign a letter stating that they would like their name removed.

In disciplinary councils there are several routes the situation can go. In these council’s the first and for most concern is for the sake of the soul involved. Second is the reputation of the name of the church.

When a counsel is convened there are several ways they can decide. They can choose to take no action, informal probation, disfellowshipment, and excommunication.

Informal probation means that they person involved will follow the steps of repentance given by the leaders, and that they can continue their membership as usual.

Disfellowshipment- means that the individual is still a member of record; however, they are asked to not participate. By this I mean that they are asked to not pray in public, offer class comments, take the sacrament, or hold church callings until the matter is resolved.

Excommunication: Occurs when repentance is best facilitated by having their removal from church or the actions of the member are severe. In this case the member will have a cancellation of their baptismal and any other ordinance. In order for this person to become a member again, they will need to receive approval from the First Presidency (Highest Church leadership) and be re baptized and have their ordinances reinstated.

Church Council’s are not like courts, but rather a discussion involving the individual to try and determine how the person can best be helped.In all of these situations, Church leadership prays and asks God the best course of action to help the soul.

I hope this helps!!!

It does help, thank you.

Do you know if a person pre-empt post-death action. Lets say I contact the LDS headquarters and I say, although I am not a member now, while I am living I would affirm that I have no desire in death, to receive any LDS ordinences?

Basically, can I ask for excommunication without ever being a member?

And forgive me, I am not trying to make light of your practices. I just know that family members can have their dead relatives baptized and to be quite honest, if life or in deathI do not want that.

 

[missoboe]

Xavierlives,

We believe in the concept of agency. If a person does not want to accept the ordinances that have been completed in their behalf, they are under no obligation to accept them. With all of our ordinances we believe that they are all dependent upon the individuals choices. Excommunication is for the living. If something was completed for you that you do not agree with, then you have your agency to refuse it.

Is there anything else that I can help you with?

 

[Anna_Scott]

Xavierlives,

I’d be more than happy to explain the process of excommunication in the LDS church. If someone is desirous of leaving the church, then their name will still remain on record until they sign a letter stating that they would like their name removed.

In disciplinary councils there are several routes the situation can go. In these council’s the first and for most concern is for the sake of the soul involved. Second is the reputation of the name of the church.

When a counsel is convened there are several ways they can decide. They can choose to take no action, informal probation, disfellowshipment, and excommunication.

Informal probation means that they person involved will follow the steps of repentance given by the leaders, and that they can continue their membership as usual.

Disfellowshipment- means that the individual is still a member of record; however, they are asked to not participate. By this I mean that they are asked to not pray in public, offer class comments, take the sacrament, or hold church callings until the matter is resolved.

Excommunication: Occurs when repentance is best facilitated by having their removal from church or the actions of the member are severe. In this case the member will have a cancellation of their baptismal and any other ordinance. In order for this person to become a member again, they will need to receive approval from the First Presidency (Highest Church leadership) and be re baptized and have their ordinances reinstated.

Church Council’s are not like courts, but rather a discussion involving the individual to try and determine how the person can best be helped.In all of these situations, Church leadership prays and asks God the best course of action to help the soul.

I hope this helps!!!

Actually, as soon as a person submits a formal request to resign from any church in the U.S., including the Mormon Church, the church no longer has the legal right to hold court, excommunicate, or take any other action against the individual. There are laws that protect an individual’s right to resign from a religion.

This has been tested by court cases and still stands.

Anna

 

[Xavierlives]

Actually, as soon as a person submits a formal request to resign from any church in the U.S., including the Mormon Church, the church no longer has the legal right to hold court, excommunicate, or take any other action against the individual. There are laws that protect an individual’s right to resign from a religion.

This has been tested by court cases and still stands.

Anna

Wow… so a person can circumvent excommunication by resigning before it happens.

 

[Xavierlives]

Xavierlives,

We believe in the concept of agency. If a person does not want to accept the ordinances that have been completed in their behalf, they are under no obligation to accept them. With all of our ordinances we believe that they are all dependent upon the individuals choices. Excommunication is for the living. If something was completed for you that you do not agree with, then you have your agency to refuse it.

Is there anything else that I can help you with?

My point was more of a ideological one. As I understand it, I can be baptized in death. So, I should be able to say in life, that I don’t want want to be baptized in death. I understand the Mormon point of view, that I’ll be able to reject it (but I won’t need to then).

Thanks for playing along.

 

[dianaiad]

My point was more of a ideological one. As I understand it, I can be baptized in death. So, I should be able to say in life, that I don’t want want to be baptized in death. I understand the Mormon point of view, that I’ll be able to reject it (but I won’t need to then).

Thanks for playing along.

The problem, Xavier, is a logistical one. You may make your wishes known, of course…but after your death, if one of your descendents wants to ‘do your work’ for you (that is, proxy baptism, marriage, Temple ordinances, whatever) then it’s possible that they won’t know what your wishes are–and the work will get done. Too many people are working in this area to be certain that you won’t 'slip through the cracks."

However, that doesn’t matter, because no matter what we do HERE, none of it means anything if you don’t accept it THERE. That is our firm belief; nothing we do forces you in any way. Ever.

Diana

 

[dianaiad]

Yes. (I had been raised in a Mormon family but I have since converted to Catholic.) It is possible to be excommunicated as a Mormon but it is difficult. Excommunication for most faiths is a last resort discilpline. To be excommunicated from the LDS church, you really have to petition for it. The LDS would rather you become inactive, or even an apostate, but still the LDS church would want to leave the ability for someone to return to the fold.

The LDS and Catholic churches are very organized religious bodies. Both share a zeal for faith sharing. The structure of their church government is remakably similair. And both the LDS and Catholic church share very similar social views. In a social context, the LDS and Catholic church may be more alike then either of them are with our Protestant bretheren.

Of course the distinction between the LDS and Catholics are dogma and tradition.

That’s what you do if YOU leave. However, if you do something utterly stupid, like commit adultery or publish an anti-Mormon book while a member, or start publicly spouting heretical doctrine as ‘true,’ the church can, and will, excommunicate you.

 

[Xavierlives]

The problem, Xavier, is a logistical one. You may make your wishes known, of course…but after your death, if one of your descendents wants to ‘do your work’ for you (that is, proxy baptism, marriage, Temple ordinances, whatever) then it’s possible that they won’t know what your wishes are–and the work will get done. Too many people are working in this area to be certain that you won’t 'slip through the cracks."

However, that doesn’t matter, because no matter what we do HERE, none of it means anything if you don’t accept it THERE. That is our firm belief; nothing we do forces you in any way. Ever.

Diana

Yeah, but I won’t need to disavow then.

 

[Holly3278]

I believe that when I was a member of the Mormon church, I was disfellowshipped due to a persistent sin of mine. I deserved the punishment though. I admit that. However, I do not believe that the Mormon church has any authority over my soul. Of course, I did end up submitting a resignation letter to the LDS church and they removed me from their records. I am quite happy to be free of that heretical church. Now, I don’t know if I am a member of the Baptist churches that I have attended in the past or not but I am considering writing them a letter asking to be removed from membership as well if I am currently a member there. I want membership in only one Church and that is the one true Church, the Catholic Church!

 

[dianaiad]

Yeah, but I won’t need to disavow then.

Then…now… probably easier to do it then, because then all it takes is “no, thank you,” and that’s the end of it. NOW you have to make sure all your grands and great grands and relatives know about it so they won’t do anything.

Then of course, what if you change your mind between now and then?

I mean, after all, about the only way you’ll even know, after you croak, that the offer was MADE is if we’re actually right, wouldn’t you think?

Up to you, of course. It’s all up to you.

…and that, my friend, is entirely the point.

 

[Xavierlives]

Then…now… probably easier to do it then, because then all it takes is “no, thank you,” and that’s the end of it. NOW you have to make sure all your grands and great grands and relatives know about it so they won’t do anything.

Then of course, what if you change your mind between now and then?

I mean, after all, about the only way you’ll even know, after you croak, that the offer was MADE is if we’re actually right, wouldn’t you think?

Up to you, of course. It’s all up to you.

…and that, my friend, is entirely the point.

That’s my point too. I won’t need to worry about making any other choices anywhere else, because I’ve made my choice now and I won’t be given any other choices. So I am good.

I just don’t want my name to even be run through the system.

 

[courtiswa]

Yes. (I had been raised in a Mormon family but I have since converted to Catholic.) It is possible to be excommunicated as a Mormon but it is difficult. Excommunication for most faiths is a last resort discilpline. To be excommunicated from the LDS church, you really have to petition for it. The LDS would rather you become inactive, or even an apostate, but still the LDS church would want to leave the ability for someone to return to the fold.

The LDS and Catholic churches are very organized religious bodies. Both share a zeal for faith sharing. The structure of their church government is remakably similair. And both the LDS and Catholic church share very similar social views. In a social context, the LDS and Catholic church may be more alike then either of them are with our Protestant bretheren.

Of course the distinction between the LDS and Catholics are dogma and tradition.

 

[dianaiad]

That’s my point too. I won’t need to worry about making any other choices anywhere else, because I’ve made my choice now and I won’t be given any other choices. So I am good.

I just don’t want my name to even be run through the system.

Good luck with that…and I mean it quite sincerely. If you can get all your descendents on the same page with you on this, you’ll get your wish.

 

[Xavierlives]

Good luck with that…and I mean it quite sincerely. If you can get all your descendents on the same page with you on this, you’ll get your wish.

I guess it isn’t important. It is just a human principle, but in our refinement it will mean nothing.