LDS Question - Why do all Mormons give that same Testimonial statement?

[Xavierlives]

Why do Mormons regularly say something like “I believe that Joseph Smith is the true prophet of God, that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true church of God, and that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

Are there other churches who make a statement like this after they speak to an audience?

 

[Jay53]

That sounds suspiciously similar to the Islamic shahada: “There is no god but God, and Muhammad is the Messenger of God”.

Off topic, but I must say that I am noticing a large number of similarities between Islam and Mormonism.

 

[Marie5890]

It’s called “baring one’s testimony” and it’s encourage by the LDS church.

The first Sunday of every month is known as “Fast and testimony” Sunday. Members are encouraged to fast for 24 hours, donate the money they save from fasting to what is called a fast offering. And instead of the normal “talks” given by members of the ward during Sacrament meeting, people get up and “bare their testimonies”.

It’s also very common to bare one’s testimony after delivering a talk.

 

[ParkerD]

It’s called “baring one’s testimony” and it’s encourage by the LDS church.

The first Sunday of every month is known as “Fast and testimony” Sunday. Members are encouraged to fast for 24 hours, donate the money they save from fasting to what is called a fast offering. And instead of the normal “talks” given by members of the ward during Sacrament meeting, people get up and “bare their testimonies”.

It’s also very common to bare one’s testimony after delivering a talk.

Marie5890,
Thanks for explaining briefly about the LDS concept of “bearing one’s testimony” that happens each Fast Sunday (the first Sunday of each month). I’ll add more perspective:

First, the fasting part has to do with observing the law of the fast as taught by Isaiah in Isaiah 58. When one does this sincerely, they are promised blessings of “then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noonday: And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.” (58:10, 11)

Second, the testifying part is similar to several occurrences in the Bible. When Moses was asked about two men (Eldad and Medad) who “prophesied” in the camp, he responded that “would God that all the Lord’s people were prophets, and that the Lord would put his spirit upon them!” (Numbers 11:29) The testimony of Jesus is the “spirit of prophecy”, so to bear one’s testimony is to declare by the spirit of prophecy that Jesus is the Christ, the Only Begotten Son of the living God. When the people spoke in the languages of the people who were from different countries on the Day of Pentecost, it was because those people who were speaking were filled with the Holy Ghost, and were declaring the “wonderful works of God” in the languages that could be understood by the visitors. That is what a testimony is–declaring the wonderful works of God in a setting where the Holy Spirit is testifying to the speaker and (if they also have the Spirit) to the listener. It is what Paul did when he taught King Agrippa.

Often, LDS testimonies may not refer to Joseph Smith directly since he was but a messenger of the fullness of the gospel, but most often to the blessings of the gospel of Jesus Christ and of His love and goodness.

For example, my family received a letter today from our daughter who just arrived in her mission field assignment, as a twenty-one-year-old in a visitor center in Missouri. Her letter says in part, “I’m so grateful that Heavenly Father knows me and knew exactly what I needed.” …“I love the gospel. It has brought me all my happiness, my true happiness, and I want to give others the chance to feel it. The gospel of Jesus Christ is truly incredible… I feel the Spirit throughout my entire body, telling me Heavenly Father loves them and He will take care of them…”

 

[Xavierlives]

Marie5890,
Thanks for explaining briefly about the LDS concept of “bearing one’s testimony” that happens each Fast Sunday (the first Sunday of each month). I’ll add more perspective:

This happens every time I go to a Mormon service. I’ll have to go back and look at my calendar, but I am pretty sure I’ve visited more than just the 1st Sunday of the month. My Mormon guests a few weeks ago threw it down.

It does remind me of the Muslims, but my issue is a little bigger. Why don’t they say lagniappe? The Apostle’s Creed is brimming with important doctrine, but the Mormons have Joseph Smith is God’s prophet, LDS is God’s Church, Christ is God’s Son.

The problem is even the demons of Matthew 8:29 recognize Jesus as God’s Son. So what are are the Mormons left with?

 

[zaffiroborant]

My Mormon guests a few weeks ago threw it down.

What does “threw it down” mean.

Threw it down made me think of “Throw Down with Bobby Flay” and how I was annoyed he won the Mac and Cheese “throw down” when he put MEAT in it. MEAT in Mac and Cheese huh!!!

 

[ParkerD]

A writer here has misinformed, whether knowing it or not.

“Mormon” testimonies would say something like: “Brothers and sisters, I am so grateful for the knowledge I have that God lives, that Jesus is the Christ, and that They love us with such mercy and know our needs. I’m grateful that I know that Joseph Smith was called to be a prophet in these latter days, and that there is a living prophet on the earth today, Thomas S Monson. I’m grateful for the restoration of the gospel in its fullness. I’m grateful for the Book of Mormon as a second witness that Jesus is the Christ, and for the Bible as the word of God to His children on earth. I bear witness that God loves each and every one of His children, including each of us, with tenderness and an individual concern and compassion for each of us. I bear witness of His blessings in my life.”

They might share an example of how they have been blessed in some way, and close their “testimony” “in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.”

Other Sundays, there are speakers who also bear their testimony during their talk, towards the end, including youth speakers such as my fifteen-year-old son who will be speaking at our congregational service this coming Sunday as one of the “youth speakers”, and speak for about 5 to 7 minutes. This is a great training opportunity for the youth to learn not to be nervous when speaking in public, which serves them well throughout their adult life.

 

[RebeccaJ]

This thread should be renamed: “How many times and ways can ParkerD bear his testimony on a Catholic forum.”

 

[ParkerD]

Hopefully, just twice–once to try and clarify and once again to try and clarify again. There is no point in people having ill-conceived and completely erroneous misconceptions about such a simple thing. In our world today, we can actually become informed–so silly to be misinformed, especially by those who deliberately bring their “slant” to deliberately misinform by making comparisons that are untrue. One ought to bring honesty to the world, or if one is uninformed, then by all means get informed or stay silent on a subject.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Well, maybe now you could address the formulaic mormon testimony. We’ve all heard it.

 

[Answersplease]

Why do Mormons regularly say something like “I believe that Joseph Smith is the true prophet of God, that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true church of God, and that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

(color added to original text)

I was told that my testimony

mormonwiki.org/Lying_for_the_Lord

So if I am to assume you would like an answer, then the answer is that the Holy Spirit will guide someone who is testifying of truth, and sometimes the person doing the teaching will have a very strong impression at the very moment they are teaching, which will let them know (if they have been paying attention) that they have just learned something “new”–something greater than the knowledge they had before. It is a case of being taught by a heavenly source, and acknowledging that and being sensitive to it.

But that kind of inspiration is not an automatic, as shown by those who have brought out websites where they essentially self-justify why they left the LDS church, and trot out all their reasons. It’s no big deal to me. It is a natural expectation that people will do exactly that.

Self-justification has been around forever on this earth–truly, since the very beginning after the fall of Eve and Adam. It is nothing new. One can see it for what it is, or not–choose as you wish.

You completely left out the part about Mormons saying their church is true even if they don’t know it yet. Do you know there is a name for saying something is true when you don’t know it yet?

Jesus Christ, who is God Himself, is not the father of lies

Parker.

Satan is the father of lies.

Answersplease,
I have been familiar with that teaching method for young people, and even though I don’t particularly agree with it, it merely means the young person will often recognize that they do “have the Spirit” with them and that it has “testified” to them about the truthfulness of the teachings, but they have to allow themselves an opportunity to bring the awareness into their conscious mind rather than it being something latent inside of their heart.

Lying is lying no matter what you call it or how you try to finesse it.

The testimony is in their heart, and they “have to allow themselves an opportunity to bring the awarness into their conscious mind”?

Matthew 15:19
For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony

, slander.

[/QUOTE]

 

[xixxvmcm85]

Why do Mormons regularly say something like “I believe that Joseph Smith is the true prophet of God, that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the true church of God, and that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

Are there other churches who make a statement like this after they speak to an audience?

Extremely short, and overly simplistic answer: the LDS are taught since childhood to bear one’s testimony in this fashion, and one naturally becomes comfortable continuing in this manner into adulthood. Though the LDS generally pride themselves on being a creed-less religion, there are cases of what I like to call creed-like tendencies found in the faith, and this form of testimony bearing that you’ve observed in one such case.

If you’ve ever been to an LDS Fast & Testimony Meeting, you’ll see even children too young to even be baptized bearing their testimony. Usually their mothers will be whispering in their ears what to say, but sometimes you get some very confident children up at the pulpit, yet the one thing they all have in common is this little adage. It’s learned quickly, remembered quickly, and repeated quickly, so makes a great little “credo”, if you will.

Despite my having converted to the Catholic faith, it was only a few weeks ago that I was evangelizing and I said something along the lines of “I know the Catholic Church is Christ’s Church, and I know His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI is the successor of St. Peter, prince of the Apostles.” As soon as the words escaped my mouth, I blushed and was astonished that the practice was so culturally imbued that I would transfer the practice to my newfound faith. I guess old habits die hard.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

That sounds suspiciously similar to the Islamic shahada: “There is no god but God, and Muhammad is the Messenger of God”.

Off topic, but I must say that I am noticing a large number of similarities between Islam and Mormonism.

It is my own personal opinion that the similarity you’ve found suspicious is actually more a matter of unnecessary conflation. I can certainly see the similarity you’ve seen, but I also see the similarity to our own practices of confessions of faith, howbeit much shorter and to the point.

How exactly is “I know the Book of Mormon is true, and I know Joseph Smith is a prophet of God and I sustain Thomas S. Monson as a prophet of God” much different than “I believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of Heaven and Earth, and in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord, who was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilot…”?

 

[ParkerD]

“…for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things…For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.” (Matthew 12:34-37)

“For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.” (Matthew 13:15)

“This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we are all witnesses.”…“Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?” (Acts 2:32, 37)

“But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost. In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them…For God, who commmanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.” (2 Corinthians 4:3-6) See also 3:3 for the term, “fleshy tables of the heart.”

 

[Answersplease]

No where in any of those verses in your above post, does it say, lie and then you will realize testimony from your heart that you didn’t know was there.

However the verse in Matthew 15:19 is VERY SPECIFIC.

Matthew 15:19

For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.

(color added to the original texts)

mormonwiki.org/Lying_for_the_Lord

“What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers. I labored with these apostates myself until I was out of all manner of patience.” - Joseph Smith

[1]

“Address of the Prophet—His Testimony Against the Dissenters at Nauvoo”, delivered Sunday, May 26, 1844. Printed in History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408-412. Available at UTLM.org. The quote is significant when one considers that Smith secretly had thirty wives at the time of the address (cf. a partial listing with dates at FamilySearch.org).

Sidney Rigdon in the 18 June 1845 ‘Messenger and Advocate’ reported that Parley P. Pratt, in speaking of the means by which church leaders should sustain Smith, advised that ‘we must lie to protect brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.’

Not only were church leaders willing to violate the law to promote polygamy, they did not hesitate to blacken the character of individuals who threatened to expose the secret practice of plural marriage.
…

-Richard van Wagoner, Mormon Polygamy: A History, pp. 38-39

Here’s your problem.

Joseph Smith claimed to be able to read the Kinderhook plates, which were bogus forgeries meant to fool him.

Joseph Smith had sex with the wives of other men.

Do you deny either of these points?

Satan is the father of lies Parker.

Do you honestly think The Holy Spirit will guides someone who is lying?

And why do they have to repeat the lie over and over? To brainwash themselves?

Why don’t they have to say the lie once and then “get” the “testimony”?

John 8:44

You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

 

[Jay53]

It is my own personal opinion that the similarity you’ve found suspicious is actually more a matter of unnecessary conflation. I can certainly see the similarity you’ve seen, but I also see the similarity to our own practices of confessions of faith, howbeit much shorter and to the point.

How exactly is “I know the Book of Mormon is true, and I know Joseph Smith is a prophet of God and I sustain Thomas S. Monson as a prophet of God” much different than “I believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of Heaven and Earth, and in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord, who was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilot…”?

Because both “testimonies” make sure they mention their faith’s self-proclaimed prophet by name, Muhammad or Joseph Smith. Nowhere in the Apostles’s Creed do we bear testimony to any specific man/prophet/saint as worthy of praise or recognition.

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.

And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried; he descended into hell; the third day he rose again from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father; who then shall come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit; the holy catholic Church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and life everlasting. AMEN.

 

[ParkerD]

Because both “testimonies” make sure they mention their faith’s self-proclaimed prophet by name, Muhammad or Joseph Smith. Nowhere in the Apostles’s Creed do we bear testimony to any specific man/prophet/saint as worthy of praise or recognition.

I was reading another thread, and enjoyed reading the letter wherein the “Holy See” declares a certain message to a Conference on Women. It was a very important message, with good counsel.

I have often wished Islam had the concept of a living “Pope” so that they would follow someone on earth who has peace and love in their heart rather than following whoever gains a following among a particular group, thus potentially endangering the world around them even though other Islamic may not share that isolated group’s ideas or behavior. So I can say honestly without a moment’s hesitation that I am grateful for the idea of a “Pope” with love and peace in his heart, and that Catholics obviously believe the Pope has a special authority and a special message–at least that is what it appears in the media, whether Catholics say it in so many words from their “heart”. (What kind of self-deception does it take to say there is not a person on earth who is “worthy of recognition”–the media describes thousands and tens of thousands who gather when the Pope visits a place.)

 

[sablouwho]

Well, maybe now you could address the formulaic mormon testimony. We’ve all heard it.

Formulaic is a good way to describe it, Rebecca.

Personally, when I was investigating, I found the repetition of the formula at the end of most every talk to be rather … well, I can’t even find a word to describe it… group think?

In any case, my reaction to it was not a positive one. It kinda gave me the creeps, for lack of a better description.

…Particularly when the little kids would get up and do it, just imitating mommy or daddy.

 

[Tmaque]

The LDS culture and religion puts great emphasis on “gaining a testimony” which consists of fasting and/or praying about an issue(usually about the Book of Mormon or the Church itself) until you get a spiritual confirmation of the truth of whatever it is you’re praying about.
The formula for this comes right out of the Book of Mormon:

“And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.”

They think that you have no testimony (if you did you would be LDS of course). To say you “know” something is true means something different to Mormons than it does to most other people. To Mormons it means “I feel so strongly this is true that it must be true”. To most people it means “I’ve seen incontrovertible evidence and unless my senses have deceived me it’s true”.

If I use LDS criteria to describe my Catholic faith I would say without question I KNOW it’s true. Every fiber of my being tells me it is. The miraculous nature of my conversion, the radically reorienting of my life, the inescapable logic, everything I feel tells me the Catholic Church is true. But in reality I don’t KNOW. I won’t KNOW until I die. If LDS used this criteria they would not say they know. Their definition is different than ours in this context. Plain and simple.

 

[sablouwho]

They think that you have no testimony (if you did you would be LDS of course).

When I was an investigator, I did read the entire BoM, and while I would never say “I know the BoM is true” (because I just don’t talk like that, and I agree with what you have said about differing definitions of the word “know” – to that I would add a differing definition of the word “true”) I do admit that I did have a strong impression that God’s fingerprints were somehow on that book.

The missionaries and the people with whom I’d become acquainted in the ward did not understand why I couldn’t go further and get baptized, confirmed, join the LDS Church. I felt I had too little/too vague of a “testimony” to join, and my prayers about this (which were sincere and frequent) went unanswered.

To say you “know” something is true means something different to Mormons than it does to most other people. To Mormons it means “I feel so strongly this is true that it must be true”. To most people it means “I’ve seen incontrovertible evidence and unless my senses have deceived me it’s true”.

Excellent, excellent point.

If I use LDS criteria to describe my Catholic faith I would say without question I KNOW it’s true. Every fiber of my being tells me it is. The miraculous nature of my conversion, the radically reorienting of my life, the inescapable logic, everything I feel tells me the Catholic Church is true. But in reality I don’t KNOW. I won’t KNOW until I die. If LDS used this criteria they would not say they know. Their definition is different than ours in this context. Plain and simple.

Awesome application of the definition of your definitions above.

By the way, have you ever posted anything online anywhere about your conversion from LDS to RCC? If so, I would love to read about it.