LDS Revelations

[TexanKnight]

So, I was talking to a good friend of mind who is LDS. We were talking about the different things LDS prophets have said and how they contradict with earlier prophets.

He claimed that not everything a prophet says is from God. I said, “how handy…the things you like are from God, but the things they say you do NOT like, you can claim are NOT from God.”

He said “They are always acting as men unless it is something that is approved unanimously by the first presidency and the quorum of the twelve.”

This bothers me. Since when id God a democracy? So, if God says something, and the 12 do not agree, then they overrule God? I asked him to show me anywhere in the Bible where God gave a commandment or teaching that was voted on. I asked him to show me anywhere in the Bible OR THE BOOK OF MORMON where Jesus gave a command and the 12 apostles voted on it.

I remember as a Mormon sorta voting to to approve callings by “bringing our arms to the square”, but voting to approve God’s revelations seems truly odd.

 

[pianistclare]

So, I was talking to a good friend of mind who is LDS. We were talking about the different things LDS prophets have said and how they contradict with earlier prophets.

He claimed that not everything a prophet says is from God. I said, “how handy…the things you like are from God, but the things they say you do NOT like, you can claim are NOT from God.”

He said “They are always acting as men unless it is something that is approved unanimously by the first presidency and the quorum of the twelve.”

This bothers me. Since when id God a democracy? So, if God says something, and the 12 do not agree, then they overrule God? I asked him to show me anywhere in the Bible where God gave a commandment or teaching that was voted on. I asked him to show me anywhere in the Bible OR THE BOOK OF MORMON where Jesus gave a command and the 12 apostles voted on it.

I remember as a Mormon sorta voting to to approve callings by “bringing our arms to the square”, but voting to approve God’s revelations seems truly odd.

Do you think he is open to conversion? Otherwise, trying to poke holes in his beliefs is only going to anger him.
Maybe, better to talk about him about the truths of the Catholic faith.
Of course it bothers you, you are Catholic and have the benefit of the Magisterium, the correct interpretation of the Bible and the life of Jesus through the Gospels in your toolbox.

God bless you for trying to engage him in a conversation about the mercy of God.
It’s easier to combat flawed logic with truth. Peace.

 

[SteveVH]

So, I was talking to a good friend of mind who is LDS. We were talking about the different things LDS prophets have said and how they contradict with earlier prophets.

He claimed that not everything a prophet says is from God. I said, “how handy…the things you like are from God, but the things they say you do NOT like, you can claim are NOT from God.”

He said “They are always acting as men unless it is something that is approved unanimously by the first presidency and the quorum of the twelve.”

This bothers me. Since when id God a democracy? So, if God says something, and the 12 do not agree, then they overrule God? I asked him to show me anywhere in the Bible where God gave a commandment or teaching that was voted on. I asked him to show me anywhere in the Bible OR THE BOOK OF MORMON where Jesus gave a command and the 12 apostles voted on it.

I remember as a Mormon sorta voting to to approve callings by “bringing our arms to the square”, but voting to approve God’s revelations seems truly odd.

If I were a Mormon I would probably respond that it isn’t much different than the Pope and the magisterium. Choosing a pope is done by a vote. We believe the Holy Spirit is guiding those bishops in making their choice. Just sayin’…

 

[LivingWaters7]

What bothered me was that the LDS prophets are regarded as prophets just like Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc., yet they don’t really seem to be functioning as such.

 

[SteveVH]

What bothered me was that the LDS prophets are regarded as prophets just like Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc., yet they don’t really seem to be functioning as such.

With all of the contradictions that have come to light over the years I imagine that they are a little gun shy in proclaiming any new revelations. But you are correct, they are certainly not functioning like the prophets of old (because they are nothing like the prophets of old).

 

[Marie5890]

I remember reading AZ Republic’s cartoonist and Ezra Benson grandson, Steve Benson, sharing his meeting with Oaks and Maxwell and one of them (I believe it was Oaks) who said he wished Joseph Smith had a couple of good counselors back then for the very reasons and concerns you bring up TK.

 

[TexanKnight]

If I were a Mormon I would probably respond that it isn’t much different than the Pope and the magisterium. Choosing a pope is done by a vote. We believe the Holy Spirit is guiding those bishops in making their choice. Just sayin’…

I consider the process of selecting a Pope much different than a vote on everything a Prophet claims is a revelation

 

[clintonm]

It would also be a complete misunderstanding of the office of the Pope and the roll of the magisterium.

 

[SteveVH]

I consider the process of selecting a Pope much different than a vote on everything a Prophet claims is a revelation

Yeah, I didn’t say that I agree with the analogy. Just predicting a response. Certainly, no one voted to approve the revelations given to Isaiah or any other prophet of the Scriptures. It is a pretty sad situation.

 

[Marie5890]

And we do not see the Pope as a prophet.

Vicar, yes, but not a prophet. We never claim that.

 

[TexanKnight]

And we do not see the Pope as a prophet.

Vicar, yes, but not a prophet. We never claim that.

yes…it is funny, really. Mormons will trumpet that THEY have a prophet and no one else does…but when you point out the errors of their prophets, they immediately try to compare them to Popes. Apparently, Mormon prophets are only like Popes when prophets are wrong.

 

[iepuras]

It’s almost laughable that he says that while the LDS equate Thomas Monson to biblical prophets like Noah or Moses. So did Noah ask his sons to vote on whether or not to build the ark? Did the Twelve Tribes of Israel vote on the Ten Commandments? The Kingdom of God is a KINGDOM and not a democracy. I guess that means that if the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles all vote to ordain woman to the priesthood, it will be a valid revelation.

 

[PaulDupre1]

It’s almost laughable that he says that while the LDS equate Thomas Monson to biblical prophets like Noah or Moses. So did Noah ask his sons to vote on whether or not to build the ark? Did the Twelve Tribes of Israel vote on the Ten Commandments? The Kingdom of God is a KINGDOM and not a democracy. I guess that means that if the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles all vote to ordain woman to the priesthood, it will be a valid revelation.

And I doubt that Noah ever proclaimed “LET’S GO SHOPPING!”.

Just sayin…

 

[SalesianSDB]

yes…it is funny, really. Mormons will trumpet that THEY have a prophet and no one else does…but when you point out the errors of their prophets, they immediately try to compare them to Popes. Apparently, Mormon prophets are only like Popes when prophets are wrong.

In fact, they will make the Pope a more authoritative voice than the prophet. I went to a sacrament meeting recently where the speaker said, “The prophet is not infallible, the Pope is. If Thomas S. Monson called me by mistake, that wouldn’t hurt my testimony, but if the Pope does that, you’ll have to wonder…”

I just wanted to scream at him at the meeting!

And I thought this was funny. Found this via Rock Waterman:
https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net...=0c9505b3ef96269016c6ec2142baec23&oe=544CEEAD

I know LDS who are frustrated by this.

 

[zaffiroborant]

And I doubt that Noah ever proclaimed “LET’S GO SHOPPING!”.

Just sayin…

I just find that exclamation by a religious leader absolutely and utterly wrong. I can not possibly look at a religious leader who opens a high end shopping mall (a pantheon to consumerism) owned by his religious organization, saying “let’s go shopping” and have any respect for the man or the religion he represents. Representatives of Christ should not be rah rahing conspicuous consumption, it is unseemly and brings scandal to every Christian.

 

[TexanKnight]

This is what all religions do, non?

For example…if a visionary is seeing a vision of Mary regularly and everyone believes she is and it looks like she is and she is tested, and miracles happen in front of people’s eyes…but then, Mary says something that is different than what the faith says she’d say…then the visionary is suddenly a fake or she’s possessed by a demon or something.

Same with a prophet. A prophet could heal and perform miracles and tell the future…and a Christian might even go and be healed, etc…but then, if the prophet said something amiss that is incongruent to the Christian faith…suddenly, he’s not a prophet anymore.

People of each religion need to believe their prophets say everything right, according to their specific religion.

.

nope. You miss the point.

Mormons tend to claim that their prophet is above everyone.

Until the prophet is wrong.

Then they start comparing him others…saying, for example, “what about the error your pope made?”

My response is, “ah, so now you are placing the Pope and your prophet on the same level? Funny how when it benefits you, your prophet is above all as THE ONLY PROPHET, but when it does not benefit you, you com pare him to everyone else.”

 

[JamesCollins]

So, I was talking to a good friend of mind who is LDS. We were talking about the different things LDS prophets have said and how they contradict with earlier prophets.

He claimed that not everything a prophet says is from God. I said, “how handy…the things you like are from God, but the things they say you do NOT like, you can claim are NOT from God.”

He said “They are always acting as men unless it is something that is approved unanimously by the first presidency and the quorum of the twelve.”

This bothers me. Since when id God a democracy? So, if God says something, and the 12 do not agree, then they overrule God? I asked him to show me anywhere in the Bible where God gave a commandment or teaching that was voted on. I asked him to show me anywhere in the Bible OR THE BOOK OF MORMON where Jesus gave a command and the 12 apostles voted on it.

I remember as a Mormon sorta voting to to approve callings by “bringing our arms to the square”, but voting to approve God’s revelations seems truly odd.

Isn’t the standard these days for them to say only revelation from their canonized scriptures is valid?

 

[TexanKnight]

Isn’t the standard these days for them to say only revelation from their canonized scriptures is valid?

or if they like it.

if it turns out to be rubbish, it was just an opinion.

Its pretty cool when you can decide what they are AFTER you see how it turned out

 

[twopekinguys]

Isn’t the standard these days for them to say only revelation from their canonized scriptures is valid?

I would think so also, until, you don’t see the priesthood ban in their scriptures, or the reversal.

The way I see it working is very simple. Anything the mormon prophet says is doctrine, until somebody calls them out on it. Then it is only opinion.

 

[JamesCollins]

I would think so also, until, you don’t see the priesthood ban in their scriptures, or the reversal.

The way I see it working is very simple. Anything the mormon prophet says is doctrine, until somebody calls them out on it. Then it is only opinion.

The end of withholding the priesthood from blacks is included in their canon at the end of the Doctrine and Covenants. The ban comes from the Book of Abraham.

lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/od/2