LDS, Spirit, Matter, and Determinism

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Did I miss or fail to understand the answer, or was it not given - how can everything be matter. That does not make sense. In the words of one of my favorite philosophers, speaking objectively not disparagingly, it is “absurd”. Love is not matter, nor forgiveness, nor anger, fear, patience, mental tranquility. Is thought supposed to be matter? Are the things thought, such as unicorns and daydreams, actual material things? What about Platonic ideals - how can they be “matter”? Here’s one that might be closer to home for Mormons: Is the Priesthood matter? If it is not, then it is false to say everything is matter, just some things are “more fine.” If Priesthood is matter, than how is it a power - through fission? Seriously, what are the answers to this type of question - In what way are abstracts and ideals and emotions “fine matter”? I hope “fine matter” isn’t just a buzz word without meaning or substance, used to squelch discussions of spirit.
LDS teaching is the the spirit that unites with a mortal body at some point between conception and birth is matter. No LDS (that I know of) are saying that abstracts, ideals, and emotions are refined matter,

Here is the link to the Encyclopedia of Mormonism on matter: eom.byu.edu/index.php/Matter

I hope this helps…
 
LDS teaching is the the spirit that unites with a mortal body at some point between conception and birth is matter. No LDS (that I know of) are saying that abstracts, ideals, and emotions are refined matter,

Here is the link to the Encyclopedia of Mormonism on matter: eom.byu.edu/index.php/Matter

I hope this helps…
Thanks, Gazelam. Although that website is not an official source of official church doctrine and as far as I can tell the general membership did not vote on what is written there, and it certainly hasn’t been placed in the scriptures, I accept it as generally acceptable. My thanks are serious. What I had heard was different, but I think I either misunderstood or the person expressed himself incorrectly. Thank you again.

Either way, then, since intelligence is put into spirit (more or less, I don’t know how the process is specifically described in current Mormon apologetics), and spirit into the body (more or less), then is “intelligence” an even more fine type of matter, or is it only as fine as spirit, or is “intelligence” neither matter nor spirit? (The more official the source, the better. We can’t be saved in ignorance!)

Another question this brings immediately to mind has to do with the Priesthood. Is the power of the Priesthood a material power, a physical power, even if a “more fine” one than, say, horsepower? Is Priesthood simply another natural and cosmic force like gravity, and electromagnetism? Or is its nature or essence somehow different from purely physical powers. Does the Priesthood power pervade the universe, or is it a localized power like the strong force binding nuclei or the shorter-ranged weak force?

I see no logical or natural reason for a human life to require two bodies. Of course, to Mormons it’s part of a “plan.” But that plan has always been in place, so I have been told by everyone from bishops on up to apostles, so it’s more of a property of existence rather than a deliberated and volitionally chosen course of axtion as we normally think of plans. God must truly be human to have been unable to create a being that could eternally co-exist with Him. The best he could do was to create a symbiote of sorts. The physical body cannot survive without the fine body, and the fine body is handicapped with the coarse body. Obviously I do not believe this. I would however sincerely like to understand how Mormons try to logically defend it. I don’t mean formal logic necessarily, just some reasonable discourse on the rational behind it, and what it says about God’s excellence in making provisions rather than His limitations and lack of imagination.

I am currently participating in a course on “philosophy of religion,” and so am trying to understand how Mormonism fits into the various arguments for God’s perfections, necessities, free will, etc.
 
Thanks, Gazelam. Although that website is not an official source of official church doctrine and as far as I can tell the general membership did not vote on what is written there, and it certainly hasn’t been placed in the scriptures, I accept it as generally acceptable. My thanks are serious. What I had heard was different, but I think I either misunderstood or the person expressed himself incorrectly. Thank you again.
You are welcome!
Either way, then, since intelligence is put into spirit (more or less, I don’t know how the process is specifically described in current Mormon apologetics), and spirit into the body (more or less), then is “intelligence” an even more fine type of matter, or is it only as fine as spirit, or is “intelligence” neither matter nor spirit? (The more official the source, the better. We can’t be saved in ignorance!)
EOM entry on Intelligence - eom.byu.edu/index.php/Intelligence
EOM entry on Intelligences - eom.byu.edu/index.php/Intelligences
Another question this brings immediately to mind has to do with the Priesthood. Is the power of the Priesthood a material power, a physical power, even if a “more fine” one than, say, horsepower? Is Priesthood simply another natural and cosmic force like gravity, and electromagnetism? Or is its nature or essence somehow different from purely physical powers. Does the Priesthood power pervade the universe, or is it a localized power like the strong force binding nuclei or the shorter-ranged weak force?
This question is above my pay grade.

EOM entry on Priesthood - eom.byu.edu/index.php/Priesthood
I see no logical or natural reason for a human life to require two bodies. Of course, to Mormons it’s part of a “plan.” But that plan has always been in place, so I have been told by everyone from bishops on up to apostles, so it’s more of a property of existence rather than a deliberated and volitionally chosen course of axtion as we normally think of plans. God must truly be human to have been unable to create a being that could eternally co-exist with Him. The best he could do was to create a symbiote of sorts. The physical body cannot survive without the fine body, and the fine body is handicapped with the coarse body. Obviously I do not believe this. I would however sincerely like to understand how Mormons try to logically defend it. I don’t mean formal logic necessarily, just some reasonable discourse on the rational behind it, and what it says about God’s excellence in making provisions rather than His limitations and lack of imagination.
Another one beyond my abilities…
I am currently participating in a course on “philosophy of religion,” and so am trying to understand how Mormonism fits into the various arguments for God’s perfections, necessities, free will, etc.
Cool! Take care…
 
It seems to me that the OP starts from a position that the orthodox Christian idea of spirit is not subject to the laws of physics. What is that based on? Who’s to say that there aren’t parallel natural laws governing spiritual essence that result in a parallel determinism issue for orthodox Christians? “Laws of Spirit Essence” has a nice ring to it! 🙂
Would you say that since God created all natural laws, He would create laws for His spirit creation as well? Of course how are we to know what those laws governing the spirit realm are? Could they possibly be similar to the physical laws governing the realm of matter? I doubt it myself.
 
Would you say that since God created all natural laws, He would create laws for His spirit creation as well? Of course how are we to know what those laws governing the spirit realm are? Could they possibly be similar to the physical laws governing the realm of matter? I doubt it myself.
I assert that we experience spiritual world, and so we can know something about it. We know that we have free will through our experience. Atheists that believe in material determinism argue that even though we “think” we have free will, we don’t since matter must obey the laws of nature and can’t pick and choose what it wants to do. Since our brains are made of matter, they must not have the freedom of choice.

Therefore, the spiritual world allows for us to have the freedom to choose, and cannot fall into this trap of determinism. This would say that there are no such “laws governing the spirit realm” in the same way that there are laws governing the material world.
 
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