LDS Temples and other questions

[amasimp]

I’ve gathered from reading these fora that a couple of you are Mormons. I have a couple of questions, if you don’t mind. They are sincere, I promise.

1. What goes on in an LDS temple and why can’t all Mormons go into one?
2. Is it true that Mormons have holy underwear?
3. Is it true that when Mormons die they become Gods over other planets?

 

[Michels]

I am not a Mormon, but I do know some things about them because of personal study. I came across some Mormon things when I was studying the history of the Masons.

Joseph Smith established the Mormon Church in 1820 when he made claims of two persons from heaven came to restablish the true church through him. He claimed that the Book of Mormon was then given to him, and he was God’s new profit. However the religion was largely based on Adventism and Freemasonry. At this time he made the prediction that the world would end in the year 1890.

Joseph Smith entered the Masons in 1842. It was at this time that he adopted most all of their rituals and temple practices. One of these was the organization of the church. The best way to think of it is a pyrimid, those on the bottom are the most numerous and as you work your way up the ranks the numbers are fewer. The members cannot know what goes on in the ranks above them, so they can’t enter the temple to keep the practices a secret.

Mormonism does teach that there are many gods, and if they follow their faith well, they will too become a god. They teach that God (the Christian god) is not the one and only God that He is, but just one of many gods and was once a mortal like us.

As for you question about holy underwear… I have no clue

 

[alterserver_07]

The holy underwear is true, at least in the past. There are stories were a ladie was going to need life saving surgury and they asked her to undress. She undress everything but the holy underwear. They asked her to remove it and then she starred to yell at them that she will never take it off. They finally had to cut it off of her so that they could do the surgury. The holy underwear is suppost to be right next to the skin at all times, at all cost. But I don’t think many LDS follow this tradition.

 

[Mom_of_5]

All LDS could go into the Temple if they have lived a “worthy” life, that is, to recieve a Temple recommend. In order to recieve this, the LDS must obey certain rules. To name a few: tithe–10% of gross income, no alcoholic beverage, no cafinated drinks, no smoking, attend meetings regularly, etc. The Temple is reserved for those who are the “holiest” of LDS. LDS believe in the progression of man to god. “God was once as man is now”. Very good LDS progress to God over their own planet. God and his wife have many spirit children who take "earthly " bodies so that the progression may continue.

LDS in good standing wear white underwear. This is to protect the wearer from harm. There is no way of knowing how many actually wear these garments. I have a wonderful LDS friend. We go shopping often, and she buys regular, ordinary underwear, and some times colored, fancy underwear. She and her husband go to the Temple regularly. Men who die Temple worthy , are dressed in special clothing. White underwear, a scull cap and apron.

We find some of these rituals quite strange, however other religions look at our “traditions” as quaint and unchristian. While I could never believe this religion I realize that those who practice LDS are every bit as sure that their religion is true and Joseph Smith was a prophet as we are sure that our Catholic faith is the true church, instituted by Christ over 2000 years ago.

Studying other faiths has strengthened my Roman Catholic faith.

Love and peace

 

[Casen]

Michels,
As a member of the LDS church and someone that tries to attend the temple once a week I can tell you that almost everything you wrote was wrong. I wonder why people that know so little about our church always feel inclined to speak about it.

Anyway, the LDS church is NOT largely based on Adventism and Freemasonry and Joseph Smith never predicted the end of the world. There are a few minor similarities between Free Masonry ceremony and the LDS temple practices but it’s actually very little. Also your analogy of a pyramid is completely false.

I’ll attempt to address Amasimp’s questions:

1. What goes on in an LDS temple and why can’t all Mormons go into one?

We perform various ordinances (i.e. sacraments) such as baptisms for the dead and temple marriages (called sealings). We don’t talk much about them outside the temple because we believe they are sacred. Any member can go to the temple if they are old enough and agree to live a certain way and sustain certain beliefs (i.e. pay a full tithing, attend church regularly, are honest in their dealings, abstain from alcohol, tobacco, coffee and tea, believe in the Atonement of Christ, sustain church leadership, etc.) The church is not a “pyramid’ as Michels stated with different levels as in Free masonry. Rather, anyone can attend the temple if they agree to live a certain way.

1. Is it true that Mormons have holy underwear?

Members of the church that have attended the temple wear “garments” under their clothing to help remind them of Covenants they have made with God It’s not unusual to find different religious groups wearing special kinds of clothing to symbolize the notion of not following the world but their own religious paths (Jews, Muslims, etc.). In this sense, Mormons are not that unique. If you research the topic you’ll discover that early Christian priests also wore ritual inner garments.

1. Is it true that when Mormons die they become Gods over other planets?

No, this is speculation; we don’t know what it means to be “one with God” and don’t understand fully what the reward of the righteous will be in heaven.

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us…
(John 17:21)

Im 33 years attending chuch I’ve never heard it preached ONCE that I will get my own plannet when I die. I believe the rumor derives from the Journal of Discourses which is a serious of LDS books that speculate on gospel topics. It was written for LDS to ponder but is not considered official church doctrine. However, I hear this accusation regularly from anti-mormons and see it in strange places on the internet occasionally.

 

[tkdnick]

3. Is it true that when Mormons die they become Gods over other planets?

No, this is speculation; we don’t know what it means to be “one with God” and don’t understand fully what the reward of the righteous will be in heaven.

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us…
(John 17:21)

Im 33 years attending chuch I’ve never heard it preached ONCE that I will get my own plannet when I die. I believe the rumor derives from the Journal of Discourses which is a serious of LDS books that speculate on gospel topics. It was written for LDS to ponder but is not considered official church doctrine. However, I hear this accusation regularly from anti-mormons and see it in strange places on the internet occasionally.

This is one of the things that’s confusing about the LDS church. When I come here, all the LDS tell me this is speculation. When I talk to my LDS friends, they hold this belief to be “binding”.

 

[Casen]

tkdnich: When I talk to my LDS friends, they hold this belief to be “binding”.

When I lived in Chile there were some Catholics that told me that it was more important to pray to Mary then God because Mary, as the mother of God was obviously more important and came first. So I guess there are people in all religions that get a little confused about their church doctrine. The fact that you have friends that think they get a planet if they’re good doesn’t mean they’re correct or their opinion represents church doctrine.

RE: This is one of the things that’s confusing about the LDS church.

People in all religions will be at different levels of understanding regarding their church’s doctrine. I don’t think this phenomenon is unique to LDS. The great thing about protestants is that they can shop around until they find a preacher that matches their beliefs (i.e grace vs works, etc.) LDS and Catholics don’t have that luxury so it behooves us to separate myth, culture and speculation from doctrine.

 

[tkdnick]

Casen:

tkdnich: When I talk to my LDS friends, they hold this belief to be “binding”.

When I lived in Chile there were some Catholics that told me that it was more important to pray to Mary then God because Mary, as the mother of God was obviously more important and came first. So I guess there are people in all religions that get a little confused about their church doctrine. The fact that you have friends that think they get a planet if they’re good doesn’t mean they’re correct or their opinion represents church doctrine.

True. However, there is one difference between our two churches. Our church has a book (Catechism) that discusses official Church teachings and explains them. Your church does not (at least no one has been able to point me to one). If you know of one, I would be much interested in knowing about it. So, when someone says Mary is more important than God, you can go to the Catechism and look it up. When someone says they’ll become the god of their own planet, there isn’t a book like that to go look it up. I would tend to believe your view about that topic though, because I have never seen an LDS source that discusses that topic and makes that claim.

The great thing about protestants is that they can shop around until they find a preacher that matches their beliefs (i.e grace vs works, etc.) LDS and Catholics don’t have that luxury…

Very true. That’s one of the reasons I don’t believe Protestants can claim to be teaching to real truth.

 

[DeFide]

amasimp:

I’ve gathered from reading these fora that a couple of you are Mormons. I have a couple of questions, if you don’t mind. They are sincere, I promise.

1. What goes on in an LDS temple and why can’t all Mormons go into one?
2. Is it true that Mormons have holy underwear?
3. Is it true that when Mormons die they become Gods over other planets?

One thing that differentiates Mormons from many other religious groups is that they tend to mask a number of their beliefs, so when outsiders get wrong impressions, it is not always their fault.

The doctrine of “eternal progression” relates to question 3:

utlm.org/topicalindexa.htm#Eternal%20Progression

catholic.com/library/Gods_of_the_Mormon_Church.asp

Casen, I know it may not be possible, but you might want to provide an “official” Mormon citation that shows that the doctrine of Eternal Progression is nothing more than Mormon speculation that Mormons are free to reject. All the evidence I’ve seen is to the contrary.

 

[Michels]

Casen:

Michels,
As a member of the LDS church and someone that tries to attend the temple once a week I can tell you that almost everything you wrote was wrong. I wonder why people that know so little about our church always feel inclined to speak about it.

Anyway, the LDS church is NOT largely based on Adventism and Freemasonry and Joseph Smith never predicted the end of the world. There are a few minor similarities between Free Masonry ceremony and the LDS temple practices but it’s actually very little. Also your analogy of a pyramid is completely false. QUOTE]

You say that you TRY to attend the temple once a week, well that is probably why you don’t know your stuff very well. I know I wouldn’t take advice on what the Catholic Church teaches from someone who can’t even make it to mass every week…

go to this web page scriptures.lds.org/ this is about like an online Catechism for LDS. Other things that Smith predicted that never happened:
In 1832 he predicted that before the current generation that was then alive passed away, the city “New Jerusalem” would be built in western Missouri (DOCTRINES AND COVENANTS, 84). Over 160 years later, with everyone in that generation long dead, there is still no Mormon temple there.

In 1843, Smith also predicted that if the United States would not redress the wrongs suffered by the Mormons in the state of Missouri, then “in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted” (HISTORY OF THE CHURCH, Vol. 5, p. 394).

In 1863, Smith’s successor Brigham Young foretold that the Civil War would not result in freeing the black slaves (JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, Vol. 10, p. 350).

Deuteronomy 18:20-22 tell how to distinguish a true prophet from a false one, and a single failed prophecy proves that a prophet is false. Since official Mormon prophets have made many false prophecies, they are not true prophets.

 

[Michels]

Casen:

Michels,
As a member of the LDS church and someone that tries to attend the temple once a week I can tell you that almost everything you wrote was wrong. I wonder why people that know so little about our church always feel inclined to speak about it.

Anyway, the LDS church is NOT largely based on Adventism and Freemasonry and Joseph Smith never predicted the end of the world. There are a few minor similarities between Free Masonry ceremony and the LDS temple practices but it’s actually very little. Also your analogy of a pyramid is completely false.

You say that you TRY to attend the temple once a week, well that is probably why you don’t know your stuff very well. I know I wouldn’t take advice on what the Catholic Church teaches from someone who can’t even make it to mass every week…

go to this web page scriptures.lds.org/ this is about like an online Catechism for LDS. Other things that Smith predicted that never happened:
In 1832 he predicted that before the current generation that was then alive passed away, the city “New Jerusalem” would be built in western Missouri (DOCTRINES AND COVENANTS, 84). Over 160 years later, with everyone in that generation long dead, there is still no Mormon temple there.

In 1843, Smith also predicted that if the United States would not redress the wrongs suffered by the Mormons in the state of Missouri, then “in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted” (HISTORY OF THE CHURCH, Vol. 5, p. 394).

In 1863, Smith’s successor Brigham Young foretold that the Civil War would not result in freeing the black slaves (JOURNAL OF DISCOURSES, Vol. 10, p. 350).

Deuteronomy 18:20-22 tell how to distinguish a true prophet from a false one, and a single failed prophecy proves that a prophet is false. Since official Mormon prophets have made many false prophecies, they are not true prophets.

 

[Karen_Anne]

Michels:

You say that you TRY to attend the temple once a week, well that is probably why you don’t know your stuff very well. I know I wouldn’t take advice on what the Catholic Church teaches from someone who can’t even make it to mass every week…

QUOTE]

FYI: Attending Temple is NOT the same as attending weekly services (known as Sacrament Meeting and Sunday School) - it is in addition to the weekly attendance of regular services. To try to attend Temple once a week is amazing - not that many people even live close enough to one to do this…

Karen Anne

 

[Mom_of_5]

Casen:

Michels,

Im 33 years attending chuch I’ve never heard it preached ONCE that I will get my own plannet when I die. I believe the rumor derives from the Journal of Discourses which is a serious of LDS books that speculate on gospel topics. It was written for LDS to ponder but is not considered official church doctrine. However, I hear this accusation regularly from anti-mormons and see it in strange places on the internet occasionally.

My Husband is x-Mormon, now Catholic. We attended two LDS funerals within the past six months. Tow different wards, differnt cities. The ward Bishop gave the major talk at both funerals. BOTH referred to eternal progression. One man (who died) was Temple worthy. His son was the Bishop and main speaker. He said that he knew his dad would progress to his godhood, because of the way he lived his life, and was waiting for “mom” so that they would have spirit children. the other man was not Temple worthy. The Bishop of his ward said that he hoped that the brother lying before us would do the work needed on the other side to progress to his godhood.

How are we, as Catholics, to understand this??? Were both bishops wrong? My husband says that the LDS church was built on sand…continually shifting to fit the moment.

Love and Peace

 

[Casen]

Michels said, You say that you TRY to attend the temple once a week, well that is probably why you don’t know your stuff very well. I know I wouldn’t take advice on what the Catholic Church teaches from someone who can’t even make it to mass every week…

Your question reveals how little you know about my religion, yet you feel qualified to speak about it. As Karen pointed out, temple attendance for LDS is different than attending church meetings on Sunday. In fact, LDS temples aren’t even open on Sunday’s because we’re encouraged to attend to our church meetings. It’s interesting to me that you claim to know the intricate similarities between LDS temple practices and Free Masonry yet you don’t even know the most basic facts about the church. And I thought it was funny that after I wrote that Journal of Discourses was NOT official church doctrine that you went on to quote it as further evidence of your point. Anyway, before I spend any more time responding to you could you please tell me how old you are? I’m I’m guessing early teens. If you’re older and would like to know the truth (as opposed to what you read from anti-mormon websites) I’ll try to help you.

Mom of 5,
Canonized church doctrine for LDS is found in the Bible (KJV), Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price, which are called the “Standard Works”. Eternal Progression is indeed taught in all the Standard Works but what exactly that means is up to interpretation. It’s definitely NOT church doctrine that we get a planet if we’re “good”. I think this is often thrown out by anti-mormon types for it’s shock value in an effort to make LDS theology sound absurd.

Some have speculated that God can “progress”, but only in the sense that he gains glory when his children become like him. But not in the sense that he can learn since we believe that he is omnipotent and perfect.

For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
(Pearl of Great Price | Moses 1:39)

Likewise, we are taught in the scriptures that we can become LIKE God…

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
(Old Testament | Psalms 82:6)

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
(New Testament | John 10:34)

These scriptures are in your bible too! Since both the New and Old Testaments say we can become “gods” what does that mean? Well, we don’t know exactly but generally I think it fair to say the LDS concept of becoming a god (little g) is similar to the Catholic doctrine of Sainthood. In other words, to us there is only ONE GOD (big G) but we can become “like” God, our Heavenly Father in some sense (little g). Christ said that his disciples would inherit “all that the Father hath.” However, what that means exactly is just speculation, not official doctrine.

RE: My husband says that the LDS church was built on sand…continually shifting to fit the moment.

Nope, our doctrine is built on our standard works, which don’t change much. However, we do not believe the heavens are sealed. We believe in a living Prophet that can receive revelation and add to the scriptures if God so desires. New revelations are added to the Doctrine and Covenants. I believe the last thing added to the D&C was in 1978.

 

[TeriGator]

I was living in Utah, married to a Mormon, and a Mormon myself in 1978. That was when Spencer W. Kimball announced the revelation that blacks could receive the priesthood. Let me tell you, that shook up a whole lot of people! They were convinced that the End Times had come, and that the world would not last much longer. Not only that, but many of them resented the change.

Since it find it rather like beating my head against a brick wall :banghead: , I generally have avoided the Mormon topics. After several useless discussions, I have come to believe that there is an active attempt to withold the “meat of the gospel” from Gentiles (non-Mormons). Since I, my husband, his family, and all of our Mormon friends and relatives were taught, from the highest levels, that God was once a man and that men could become true Gods, I am very suspicious of those who claim the church does not teach that or that it’s “speculation.”

When I converted, I was not given these details. It was not until I was baptised and began attending church that I heard these teachings, and they were accepted as binding. These teachings were confirmed by many of the recommended books available at Deseret Books. Anyone who disagreed would have been considered an apostate. Now, I cannot speak for what was taught outside of Utah (the New Zion), and I do know that many Utah Mormons were mildly suspicious of California Mormons. Still, I can speak with absolute truth about what was taught to us and what we were expected to believe.

It is also fact that, until the 1978 revelation, it was taught by the prophets themselves that the Lamanites (Native Americans) would become “white and delightsome.” This very phrase was in the BOM, but eventually they changed that to say “pure and delightsome.” I wish I could give you a date for that, but it has slipped my mind. My BOM, pre-revelation edition, still says that. You also can’t change the fact that Kimball himself, and other apostles of the church, spoke many times about how the Lamanites would become white, and in fact were already becoming so as they converted to Mormonism.

Speaking for the “garments”, I know that my mother-in-law was buried in hers and with her temple apron. It is also a fact that there were symbols on this apron that are identical to those of the Masons. Whether similarity implies descent, I cannot say.

Incidentally, I do not consider myself an anti-Mormon. I am not on any campaign to spread lies or destroy the Mormon church. My intent is not to be hostile or insulting, but simply to present the truth and let others judge for themselves. I have friends and family still in the church, and I respect them very much. No one can tell me that my MIL did not love Christ.

I just find it bewildering that Mormons will deny what has been a vital part of their belief system for most of its existence.

 

[Casen]

RE: I just find it bewildering that Mormons will deny what has been a vital part of their belief system for most of its existence.

Teri,
I’m not denying anything I’ve been taught. As I stated before, in 33 years I’ve NEVER been told that if we’re righteous we get our own planet to run and it’s not stated in our standard works. It’s also not taught in our temples. That church leaders have speculated on such things in talks or books I won’t deny. I haven’t read it but I don’t doubt that someone said such a thing and I’ll take your word for it if you say your family believes it, but I stand by my statement that it’s not canonized doctrine. In any case, I still submit that anti-s like to point out such things for their shock value.

 

[Jo_s_Dad]

I have to admit, I’ve been a member for 24 years and I’ve never heard this either until I came to this board. In fact, this board seems to be the only one preaching this.

 

[BJ_Colbert]

I agree, with the other Mormons, in that I have never been taught this concept of having a planet of my own, but I believe that Teri’s family must have heard this from some misguided teacher at one time or another. Obviously, whomever was doing the teaching of this family had strayed away from the mainstream beliefs of the LDS Church.
Eternal progression, on the other hand is a belief of the Church and is taught, in regards to continually studying scripture and doing good works and following the example of our Saviour Jesus Christ. We hope to become like Him someday. We know that most of us may not make it, but that is why He sacrificed His life, so that we may repent of our sins and follow Him. There is always hope shining brightly before us, and we know that it is possible to be with our Father in Heaven some day. This is eternal progression, and I think Catholics believe that they will too will be with God when they pass into eternity. BJ

 

[BJ_Colbert]

In addition, we believe that if we are married in the Temple, that it is for eternity and that we will have our children and parents and grandparents etc. all sealed to us as an eternal family. What is joined on earth is joined in heaven.
I attended Stake conference today(also Catholic Mass with my husband), but in conference, they gave the statistics for our Stake(several wards make a stake)approximately 3-6 thousand people. They stated that our stake had the highest temple attendance record and of all of the stakes in the Oakland California Temple area. Only 1/3rd of the entire membership of my stake holds temple recommends and only 1/2 of that 1/3rd attends the temple once a month as the Prophet has asked all recommend holders to do. So you see, all of us are struggling with the requirements asked of us. It is a continuous ongoing, lifetime struggle to keep God’s commandments and with all the people who profess to love and follow Jesus Christ unable to keep His commandments, how much more difficult it is for those who don’t even try. It is indeed an eternal goal to follow Christ. Eternal progression we call it. BJ

 

[tkdnick]

Casen:

Likewise, we are taught in the scriptures that we can become LIKE God…

I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
(Old Testament | Psalms 82:6)

Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
(New Testament | John 10:34)

The Hebrew word used in Psalm 82:6 for “god” has as one of its meanings ‘ruler or judge’. The fact that it says “Ye are gods” does not necessarily mean that we are Gods. In fact, many Biblical scholars believe that Psalm 82:6 means exactly that. God is calling them rulers and judges. Which, if true, would mean that Jesus’ commentary was also in reference to being rulers/judges.