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zaffiroborant
Guest
I’d guess that people quote Mark Twain as a literary critic not as a theological one. This is an answer to the claim that Joseph Smith wasn’t capable of writing the BoM as it’s such a literary masterpiece.
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majick275
Guest
absolutely!!!
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Lion_of_Narnia
Guest
Exactly why I quoted him.
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Lion_of_Narnia
Guest
Here’s a citation that can even cause Mormon kids to giggle when their bishop’s back is turned:
3 Nephi 17:7 Have ye any that are sick among you? Bring them hither. Have ye any that are lame, or blind, or halt, or maimed, or leprous, or that are withered, or that are deaf, or that are afflicted in any manner? Bring them hither and I will heal them, for I have compassion upon you; my bowels are filled with mercy.
and:
Alma 34: 15
And thus he shall bring salvation to all those who shall believe on his name; this being the intent of this last sacrifice, to bring about the bowels of mercy, which overpowereth justice, and bringeth about means unto men that they may have faith unto repentance
And these are supposed to be the word-for-word inspired words of God (“literary masterpiece”) revealed in script of light inside the darkness of a stovepipe hat?
3 Nephi 17:7 Have ye any that are sick among you? Bring them hither. Have ye any that are lame, or blind, or halt, or maimed, or leprous, or that are withered, or that are deaf, or that are afflicted in any manner? Bring them hither and I will heal them, for I have compassion upon you; my bowels are filled with mercy.
and:
Alma 34: 15
And thus he shall bring salvation to all those who shall believe on his name; this being the intent of this last sacrifice, to bring about the bowels of mercy, which overpowereth justice, and bringeth about means unto men that they may have faith unto repentance
And these are supposed to be the word-for-word inspired words of God (“literary masterpiece”) revealed in script of light inside the darkness of a stovepipe hat?
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hosemonkey
Guest
I wonder why you don’t see an over-the-counter medicine on TV for “bowels of mercy?” Could be that only see it in mormon country. What would you ask for, “BOM?”
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
Actually the word bowels is used in the King James Version of the Bible:
Bowels Phi 1:8; Phi 2:1; Col 3:12), compassionate feelings; R.V., “tender mercies.”
Phi 1:8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.
Phi 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies
Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering
As Smith was writing quasi-King James, this is really not inappropriate.
Bowels Phi 1:8; Phi 2:1; Col 3:12), compassionate feelings; R.V., “tender mercies.”
Phi 1:8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.
Phi 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies
Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering
As Smith was writing quasi-King James, this is really not inappropriate.
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Catholic_Dude
Guest
I heard he was a very likable man, especially at the height of his fame. However, after his wife (and I think at least one child) died his life went downhill from there. From then on he turned bitter and started attacking religion and basically became atheist. He had a rough life that included going broke and having close family pass away.
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zerinus
Guest
The word “bowels” (used in that sense of the term), occurs much more often in the KJV than that:
Genesis 43:
30 And Joseph made haste; for his bowels did yearn upon his brother: and he sought where to weep; and he entered into his chamber, and wept there.
1 Kings 3:
26 Then spake the woman whose the living child was unto the king, for her bowels yearned upon her son, and she said, O my lord, give her the living child, and in no wise slay it. But the other said, Let it be neither mine nor thine, but divide it.
Psalms 22:
14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.
Isaiah 16:
11 Wherefore my bowels shall sound like an harp for Moab, and mine inward parts for Kir-haresh.
Isaiah 63:
15 Look down from heaven, and behold from the habitation of thy holiness and of thy glory: where is thy zeal and thy strength, the sounding of thy bowels and of thy mercies toward me? are they restrained
Jeremiah 4:
19 My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war.
Jeremiah 31:
20 Is Ephraim my dear son? is he a pleasant child? for since I spake against him, I do earnestly remember him still: therefore my bowels are troubled for him; I will surely have mercy upon him, saith the LORD.
Lamentations 1:
20 Behold, O LORD; for I am in distress: my bowels are troubled; mine heart is turned within me; for I have grievously rebelled: abroad the sword bereaveth, at home there is as death.
Lamentations 2:
11 Mine eyes do fail with tears, my bowels are troubled, my liver is poured upon the earth, for the destruction of the daughter of my people; because the children and the sucklings swoon in the streets of the city.
2 Corinthians 6:
12 Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.
Philippians 1:
8 For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.
Philippians 2:
1 IF there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
Colossians 3:
12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering
Philemon 1:
7 For we have great joy and consolation in thy love, because the bowels of the saints are refreshed by thee, brother.
Philemon 1:
12 Whom I have sent again: thou therefore receive him, that is, mine own bowels
Philemon 1:
20 Yea, brother, let me have joy of thee in the Lord: refresh my bowels in the Lord.
1 John 3:
17 But whoso hath this world’s good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him
zerinus
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RebeccaJ
Guest
Just more evidence of JS plagiarism of the KJV Bible and his attempt to use early modern English. Though, he mixes early 1830 terms in there as well.
It is like watching a film where the actor falls in and out of different accents AND colloquialisms. Sloppy, indeed.
But, I do remember a seminary lesson where we were taught why we use thee and thou, such in all Mormon prayers. why? because it was supposedly a more formal language that God wants us to use. So, if you want to be formal in your speech, start using Shakespearean English.
It is like watching a film where the actor falls in and out of different accents AND colloquialisms. Sloppy, indeed.
But, I do remember a seminary lesson where we were taught why we use thee and thou, such in all Mormon prayers. why? because it was supposedly a more formal language that God wants us to use. So, if you want to be formal in your speech, start using Shakespearean English.
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ufamtobie
Guest
Alma,
If Joseph Smith was a true prophet from God, then his prophecies should have come to pass. However, there are plenty of cases where they did not. For example, Joseph Smith claimed that before 1891, and before he reached the age of 85, Jesus Christ would return. Well, Joseph Smith did not reach the age of 85 - he was murdered on the 27th of July 1844. And we know that Jesus Christ didn’t return before 1891, bringing an end to the present world order.
Smith prophesied in 1832 concerning the American civil war that the British would get involved and the war would extend to all nations. This is just one of his false prophecies concerning the American civil war. Smith also predicted the demise of the government of the state of Missouri which had displeased him - this never happened. He prophesied that the civil war would not result in the freedom of ‘Ham’ - this could not happen until the millenium according to Smith. Here again Smith was demonstrating just what a false prophet he was.
Alma, you can read more of this @
www.christian-faith.com/forjesus/mormon-religion
Ufamtobie
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CentralFLJames
Guest
False Prophets Will Be Numerous, And Very Successful:
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. [SIGN]Sound like Joseph Smith?[/SIGN]
2 Pet 2:1 [NIV] But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them–bringing swift destruction on themselves. [SIGN]Mormon’s think everyone can be god[/SIGN] [SIGN]Mr. Smith - killed by a mob[/SIGN]
2 Pet 2:2 [NIV] Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. [SIGN]Mormon’s teach a new gospel[/SIGN]
2 Pet 2:3 [NIV] In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. [SIGN]Mr. Smith & his religion has disputed leaders[/SIGN]
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
False Prophets Work Miracles That Deceive:
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.[SIGN]Mr. Smith seduces women to go along with polagamy[/SIGN]
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
**Most people do not know that at the time of his death Joseph Smith was running for president of the USA and according to the Nauvoo Expositor newspaper (which as mayor he in retribution ordered destroyed and was jailed for) Smith had plans to set himself up as a theocratic king.
What a circus.
James**
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ibkc
Guest
This is hilarious to me. “Thou” and its objective, genitive and possessive forms (thee, thy/thine, and thine respectively) was actually the informal second person singular pronoun in Early Modern English, and “you” was the formal. William Tyndale used the informal “thou” in his English Bible as a translation convenience, and the KJV simply imitated this. William Tyndale != God, last I looked!
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CentralFLJames
Guest
LOL, ibks you must be a computer programmer.
Are * thou *are making a freudian slip here ibkc? Thou are using the modern computer language "C"s logic notation as a short hand to make sport of Joseph Smith for doing the same thing in replicating and propagating the linguistic contextual faux pas of Tyndal’s.
For the sake of the non-techies here let me apply the Rosetta Stone to translate the “!=” notation . “!” is the Boolean “not” operator (e.g. not TRUE == FALSE; conversely, not FALSE == TRUE) . “=” is the short form of the algebraic Boolean equivalence operator “==” which short form is used with modifiers such as !. So the computer linguistic expression “!=” spoken with English semantics means “not equal to”. So ibks is saying ‘Willie Tyndale is not equal to God (the last time he looked)’. But he leaves it ambiguous if the expression needs to be continuously evaluated or if he is checking often enough (within the Nyquist criteria) to be able to actually “see” if Willie Tyndale’s bones might suddenly disappear from his grave and one might then evaluate the casket’s empty space with the unseeable God to “see” if they look the same.
James
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ibkc
Guest
I’m not, but my husband is, and I’ve picked up just enough to make me dangerous.
Are * thou *are making a freudian slip here ibkc? Thou are using the modern computer language "C"s logic notation as a short hand to make sport of Joseph Smith for doing the same thing in replicating and propagating the linguistic contextual faux pas of Tyndal’s.
For the sake of the non-techies here let me apply the Rosetta Stone to translate the “!=” notation . “!” is the Boolean “not” operator (e.g. not TRUE == FALSE; conversely, not FALSE == TRUE) . “=” is the short form of the algebraic Boolean equivalence operator “==” which short form is used with modifiers such as !. So the computer linguistic expression “!=” spoken with English semantics means “not equal to”. So ibks is saying ‘Willie Tyndale is not equal to God (the last time he looked)’. But he leaves it ambiguous if the expression needs to be continuously evaluated or if he is checking often enough (within the Nyquist criteria) to be able to actually “see” if Willie Tyndale’s bones might suddenly disappear from his grave and one might then evaluate the casket’s empty space with the unseeable God to “see” if they look the same.
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