LDS: What do you know about your Heavenly Mother? Would you like to know more?

[Peter_John]

Latter-day Saints believe in a Mother in Heaven, but affirm little has been revealed about her, and many think that no other Christians believe in a Heavenly Mother.

However, Catholics believe in a Mother in Heaven as well, and we know a LOT about her. If you want to know more about your Mother in Heaven, this is where you can find out.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

The LDS concept of Heavenly Mother has nothing to do with the Blessed Virgin Mary. Heavenly Mother in Mormonism refers to God the Father’s wife (or wives according to Mormons who believe God the Father is a polygamist). She is a corporeal entity just as God the Father is (in Mormonism), and the justification for her existence is a conclusion which naturally follows from two Mormon beliefs: (1) that God the Father was once a mortal human being who was exalted to deity, and (2) that an eternal marriage is a prerequisite for exaltation.

 

[Peter_John]

The LDS concept of Heavenly Mother has nothing to do with the Blessed Virgin Mary. Heavenly Mother in Mormonism refers to God the Father’s wife (or wives according to Mormons who believe God the Father is a polygamist). She is a corporeal entity just as God the Father is (in Mormonism), and the justification for her existence is a conclusion which naturally follows from two Mormon beliefs: (1) that God the Father was once a mortal human being who was exalted to deity, and (2) that an eternal marriage is a prerequisite for exaltation.

I completely agree with that – but it does not change the fact that there is a Mother in Heaven, and she is the Mother of all Christian Faith. As she carried Christ into our world, She introduces Him to out Hearts, and the Holy Spirit testifies to the truth.

The belief in the Holy Mother is a magnet God has given us specifically to draw people into the Church. This substitution, with no additional explanation – she just is that she is, in Mormonism – allows people to misperceive the Call. We have a responsibility as Catholics to help LDS members to get to know their REAL Mother in Heaven who does exist, but about whome they are told nothing.

 

[RebeccaJ]

The Mormon Mother is a goddess, married to a god. Mormons call this god “Heavenly Father”. The goddess, they call “Heavenly Mother”. So the logical conclusion, one would think, is that we’re talking about co-creators here. Equal in divinity, but more importantly, the model of what motherhood and marriage are, and how women are viewed by GOD HIMSELF…which is…not even your own children can pray to you.

How is this mother-goddess active in salvation? What is/was her role? Behind the scene cheerleader? A stand by your man kind of woman? WHAT, exactly?

Apparently, women are a mystery.

This goddess “Mother” is hidden, more so than any woman you have ever thought of in your entire life. So much so, that any Mormon woman who has published any sort of theology about this Mother, has been excommunicated from the Mormon church. It isn’t acceptable to speak about her, at all, other than to say she exists.

 

[KathleenGee]

Strange that the Mormons need to have so many new stories, but nothing about Christ’s mother.

Without Mary, we Catholics and others who think about this know we would not have Christ either.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

I completely agree with that – but it does not change the fact that there is a Mother in Heaven, and she is the Mother of all Christian Faith. As she carried Christ into our world, She introduces Him to out Hearts, and the Holy Spirit testifies to the truth.

The belief in the Holy Mother is a magnet God has given us specifically to draw people into the Church. This substitution, with no additional explanation – she just is that she is, in Mormonism – allows people to misperceive the Call. We have a responsibility as Catholics to help LDS members to get to know their REAL Mother in Heaven who does exist, but about whome they are told nothing.

I’m sorry, I presumed that you thought the LDS concept was similar to the Catholic one. It’s a confusion I’ve heard from fellow Catholics before and just wanted to clarify. If it is your intention to introduce Mariology to the LDS you’ll want to start with the Communion of Saints in general. For the LDS, as for many Protestants, veneration of any of the Saints borders too close to idolatry.

 

[Peter_John]

I’m sorry, I presumed that you thought the LDS concept was similar to the Catholic one. It’s a confusion I’ve heard from fellow Catholics before and just wanted to clarify. If it is your intention to introduce Mariology to the LDS you’ll want to start with the Communion of Saints in general. For the LDS, as for many Protestants, veneration of any of the Saints borders too close to idolatry.

This even though they believe in Communiuon of Saints almost as we do. They just do not put the same name on it.

LDS call it temple work, or work for the dead. They believe that their former leaders who have passed on continue the work of the Church in the next life. They have accounts of leaders receiving guidance from leaders who have gone before, and they have accounts of people claiming to have spoken with passed loved ones in the temples.

They may not have prescribed prayers to communicate with dead loved ones, but they believe that their family memebrs who died in what we would call grace can take an active interest in their lives now.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

This even though they believe in Communiuon of Saints almost as we do. They just do not put the same name on it.

LDS call it temple work, or work for the dead. They believe that their former leaders who have passed on continue the work of the Church in the next life. They have accounts of leaders receiving guidance from leaders who have gone before, and they have accounts of people claiming to have spoken with passed loved ones in the temples.

They may not have prescribed prayers to communicate with dead loved ones, but they believe that their family memebrs who died in what we would call grace can take an active interest in their lives now.

Eh… I could see the similarities, but I think the devil’s in the details. There really is no Mormon equivalent for the intercession of Saints. They do not win us favor with God. They might be used by God in some revelatory sense, but all for the sake of God’s plan and not necessarily and directly our benefit. As you properly mention, the LDS do not direct any prayers to any Saints, the least of which the Blessed Virgin Mary.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

Furthermore, Peter John, even if the LDS had an identical view of the Communion of Saints as we do, they view God’s fatherhood as a literal one, and the emphasis is on that spiritual patronage we all share with each other. The biological mother of anyone else, even Jesus’ own mother, wouldn’t have a place as our mother, anymore than I would say you and I both being children of God must mean your biological mother is my spiritual mother.

 

[Peter_John]

Furthermore, Peter John, even if the LDS had an identical view of the Communion of Saints as we do, they view God’s fatherhood as a literal one, and the emphasis is on that spiritual patronage we all share with each other. The biological mother of anyone else, even Jesus’ own mother, wouldn’t have a place as our mother, anymore than I would say you and I both being children of God must mean your biological mother is my spiritual mother.

As you say in your prior post “the devil” is in the details. It is the truth of the concept that attracts people, and commitment to the details that keeps them from recognizing alternative definitions.

Regardless, all Christians have the same Mother in Heaven. They know they have one. I hope to help them see beyond their misconception. Of course, they may first have to consider if Mary’s contribution to Salvation should – within Mormonism – be considered greater than Joseph Smith’s. The loophole in the LDS scripture declaring Joseph Smith as more responsible for salvation than anyone “save Jesus only” says he has done more than “any man”. So we can debate the meaning of man.

In that case, who has done more for salvation in Mormon perspecteive, Mary or Joseph Smith?

 

[SteveVH]

I’m sorry, I presumed that you thought the LDS concept was similar to the Catholic one. It’s a confusion I’ve heard from fellow Catholics before and just wanted to clarify. If it is your intention to introduce Mariology to the LDS you’ll want to start with the Communion of Saints in general. For the LDS, as for many Protestants, veneration of any of the Saints borders too close to idolatry.

I think it will be interesting to see if there are any Mormon responses to this thread. My understanding is that they are not allowed to speak in depth, if at all, about “Heavenly Mother”. As for veneration of the Saints, especially Mary, being considered idolatry, isn’t it strange that we do not consider any of the Saints, Mary included, as divine, while they do consider “Heavenly Mother” to be divine yet are not guilty of idolatry?

Does it not follow also, that, if “Heavenly Mother” exists, that this must mean that many “Heavenly Mothers” exist? Logically, it must go on and on and on… From what I have seen, the concept of one, eternal God, who created everything from nothing is absent from Mormon thought.

 

[Peter_John]

I think it will be interesting to see if there are any Mormon responses to this thread. My understanding is that they are not allowed to speak in depth, if at all, about “Heavenly Mother”. As for veneration of the Saints, especially Mary, being considered idolatry, isn’t it strange that we do not consider any of the Saints, Mary included, as divine, while they do consider “Heavenly Mother” to be divine yet are not guilty of idolatry?

Does it not follow also, that, if “Heavenly Mother” exists, that this must mean that many “Heavenly Mothers” exist? Logically, it must go on and on and on… From what I have seen, the concept of one, eternal God, who created everything from nothing is absent from Mormon thought.

You are fairly accurate. Because of the belief in Eternal plural marriage, some LDS thinkers have maintained that God must have many heavenly families. It was one of thos imponderable mysteries in the dogma.

I do not expect any LDS members to respond to this thread, but if they do – as the title implies – we know more about our Heavenly Mother than they do, so I offer this as a chance to share.

Actually, if you are familiar with the LDS Golden Questions: “What do you know about the Mormons? Would you like to know more?” I think the main title of this thread would make a great bumber sticker or T-Shirt for militant Catholics in Utah.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

You are fairly accurate. Because of the belief in Eternal plural marriage, some LDS thinkers have maintained that God must have many heavenly families. It was one of thos imponderable mysteries in the dogma.

I believe you and Steve are talking about different things here. It seems to me that Steve is referring to multiple Heavenly Mothers with regards to the infinite regress of multiple Heavenly Fathers given the LDS concept of deification by exaltation, while you seem to be referring to the possibility of multiple Heavenly Mothers all married to the same Heavenly Father by plural celestial marriage. Concerning the latter, the only Mormons I’ve ever known to think God is a polygamist have been my great grandfather who grew up in a polygamist family, and the three Fundamentalist (non-LDS) Mormons I met in Arizona. It’s not that common of a belief in contemporary LDS circles.

 

[SteveVH]

You are fairly accurate. Because of the belief in Eternal plural marriage, some LDS thinkers have maintained that God must have many heavenly families. It was one of thos imponderable mysteries in the dogma.

I do not expect any LDS members to respond to this thread, but if they do – as the title implies – we know more about our Heavenly Mother than they do, so I offer this as a chance to share.

Actually, if you are familiar with the LDS Golden Questions: “What do you know about the Mormons? Would you like to know more?” I think the main title of this thread would make a great bumber sticker or T-Shirt for militant Catholics in Utah.

Doesn’t the question ultimately come down to the Mormon concept of the nature of “God”? Am I correct that they reject the concept of one, eternal God, without beginning or end? I know that they will say that they believe that God is “eternal”, but their definition of “eternal” is not the definition understood by the rest of the Christian world. They also believe that “matter” and “intelligences” are eternal which negates God as the uncaused cause. God is not so much a creator as He is an organizer. He is dependant upon existing matter in order to “create” the world and would also be dependant upon a female Goddess in order to “create” his children, which would make Him more a pro-creator than a creator. My point is that the Mormon belief in a “Heavenly Mother” is more a logical consequence of their theology than it is a revealed truth, thus their hesitance in discussing the matter. Please show me where I am wrong in my understanding.

As for the bumper sticker idea, yes, I think it is brilliant.

 

[BYUChemAlum]

Latter-day Saints believe in a Mother in Heaven, but affirm little has been revealed about her, and many think that no other Christians believe in a Heavenly Mother.

However, Catholics believe in a Mother in Heaven as well, and we know a LOT about her. If you want to know more about your Mother in Heaven, this is where you can find out.

This of course is not logical, since the person that you believe to by Mother in Heaven, Mary, is not the person that we are referring to as Mother in Heaven. It would thus make more sense for you to claim that you believe you know more about Mary than LDS do.

Also, why do you not expect LDS to respond to this thread? Perhaps its because we already had a thread on Heavenly Mother recently?

 

[BYUChemAlum]

My point is that the Mormon belief in a “Heavenly Mother” is more a logical consequence of their theology than it is a revealed truth, thus their hesitance in discussing the matter. Please show me where I am wrong in my understanding.

Our “hesitance” in discussing the matter, as mentioned in the previous Heavenly Mother thread, is that nothing really has been revealed about her [yet]. Therefore, anything else is mere speculation.

 

[BYUChemAlum]

God is not so much a creator as He is an organizer.

No, he is still Creator. The question is whether He created from nothing or from pre-existing materials. “Organizing” and “Creating” are not mutually exclusive. A painter creates a painting using things that already exist, for example. Also the potter and clay.

He is dependant upon existing matter in order to “create” the world and would also be dependant upon a female Goddess in order to “create” his children, which would make Him more a pro-creator than a creator.

No, He is Creator in LDS theology. And even if we entertain the idea that God is a “pro-creator”, that is still “creation”.

 

[BYUChemAlum]

Eh… I could see the similarities, but I think the devil’s in the details. There really is no Mormon equivalent for the intercession of Saints. They do not win us favor with God. They might be used by God in some revelatory sense, but all for the sake of God’s plan and not necessarily and directly our benefit. As you properly mention, the LDS do not direct any prayers to any Saints, the least of which the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Thank you, this is very true.

 

[SteveVH]

I believe you and Steve are talking about different things here. It seems to me that Steve is referring to multiple Heavenly Mothers with regards to the infinite regress of multiple Heavenly Fathers given the LDS concept of deification by exaltation, while you seem to be referring to the possibility of multiple Heavenly Mothers all married to the same Heavenly Father by plural celestial marriage. Concerning the latter, the only Mormons I’ve ever known to think God is a polygamist have been my great grandfather who grew up in a polygamist family, and the three Fundamentalist (non-LDS) Mormons I met in Arizona. It’s not that common of a belief in contemporary LDS circles.

I would say your statement is accurate. When we begin discussing Mormon theology, however, my head begins to swim so I tend to defer to those who know much more about this than I. My understanding is that “Heavenly Father” is not the only “Heavenly Father” in existence so I would assume that there are other “Heavenly Mothers” as well. But I think an unintended consequence of this discussion is the derailing the topic of this thread which is to inform LDS members of the only true heavenly mother, Mary.

 

[SteveVH]

Our “hesitance” in discussing the matter, as mentioned in the previous Heavenly Mother thread, is that nothing really has been revealed about her [yet]. Therefore, anything else is mere speculation.

Isn’t that what I said?

Originally Posted by SteveVH
My point is that the Mormon belief in a “Heavenly Mother” is more a logical consequence of their theology than it is a revealed truth, thus their hesitance in discussing the matter. Please show me where I am wrong in my understanding.