LDS: What is the Promise of the BoM, the BoA, and the Historical Record?

[JaminB123]

I see. But do any Mormons know that the BoA is actually a funeral text and not what JS claimed?

Yes… they know. They absolutely know. That’s why they rewrote the intro recently. It’s no longer considered a “translation”; it’s an “inspired translation.” It’s not a literal translation, no, no. Now it’s sort of like… if I picked up a New York City phone book from 1979 and was “inspired” to write the Gospel According to Luke.

See the official word: lds.org/topics/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng&query=scholar

They realize it’s a fraud but they can’t fully admit it (since it undermines JS and the entire Mormon-industrial complex) so they are reframing it in a more palatable way. Damage control. Crisis PR. Admit what you must but nothing more.

I actually asked my wife’s bishop about this once and his exact words were, “Well, we don’t really emphasize the Book of Abraham anymore.” You can tell it’s embarrassing to them, because if JS didn’t correctly translate the BoA, then the BoM translation, from the same “translator,” doesn’t look so promising, does it? Fortunately for the BoM, the gold plates are nowhere to be found so it’s impossible to validate the translation.

 

[XuDan]

Yes… they know. They absolutely know. That’s why they rewrote the intro recently. It’s no longer considered a “translation”; it’s an “inspired translation.” It’s not a literal translation, no, no. Now it’s sort of like… if I picked up a New York City phone book from 1979 and was “inspired” to write the Gospel According to Luke.

See the official word: lds.org/topics/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng&query=scholar

They realize it’s a fraud but they can’t fully admit it (since it undermines JS and the entire Mormon-industrial complex) so they are reframing it in a more palatable way. Damage control. Crisis PR. Admit what you must but nothing more.

I actually asked my wife’s bishop about this once and his exact words were, “Well, we don’t really emphasize the Book of Abraham anymore.” You can tell it’s embarrassing to them, because if JS didn’t correctly translate the BoA, then the BoM translation, from the same “translator,” doesn’t look so promising, does it? Fortunately for the BoM, the gold plates are nowhere to be found so it’s impossible to validate the translation.

Don’t forget the Kinderhook plates that also turned out to be fraudulent translations too. So that’s two out of three proven to be false. With that kind of track record, the probability of a BoM translation being a fabrication is extremely high. However, the minute you bring the Kinderhook plates you can watch the heads go into the sand to the sound of “nope,nope, nope.”

Kinderhook plates: linkified!

 

[RebeccaJ]

The rest are split between “Anti-mormons are just trying my faith, but I will stand strong” and “only a small part of the papyrus have been found, perhaps the translation comes from the other parts” (which is true, kinda, don’t really want to get into it, but it is a mostly fair arguement).

No,it isn’t. A page of papyrus being “translated”, incorrectly, is right there in the book, that claims to be scripture.

 

[JaminB123]

Mormon-industrial complex

Honestly, I’m slightly bummed I didn’t get any props for coining the term “Mormon-industrial complex”. But I’m not “angry”! However, be warned that the term is now trademarked and lawsuits are pending.

 

[JaminB123]

Don’t forget the Kinderhook plates that also turned out to be fraudulent translations too. So that’s two out of three proven to be false. With that kind of track record, the probability of a BoM translation being a fabrication is extremely high. However, the minute you bring the Kinderhook plates you can watch the heads go into the sand to the sound of “nope,nope, nope.”

Kinderhook plates: linkified!

Yeah, the BoM (the most correct book on earth), the BoA (we don’t really emphasize that anymore), the Kinderhook plates (nope,nope, nope)… There’s not a legitimate translation anywhere in Mormonism that can be validated. But at the end of the day, Mormons just wave their hands and say, “God did it.” Which is unfortunate, because it makes all religious people look anti-intellectual. What I love about Catholicism is that it is deeply intellectual if you want to go that far. So many of the great thinkers in history are Catholic. How many great, widely-respected Mormon thinkers can you name? Yeah, I didn’t think so. Catholicism is pro-intellectual; Mormonism is anti-intellectual. I love, as a Catholic convert, that I don’t have to check my brain out at the door!

 

[Stevenrushing]

No,it isn’t. A page of papyrus being “translated”, incorrectly, is right there in the book, that claims to be scripture.

Did you note my qualifiers? I said it was “kinda” true, and a “mostly” fair argument. If you look at my other post, just a few above here, you will note that I mentioned why I used the qualifiers.

Most LDS folk know that SOME of the papyrus (certainly not even most) has been recovered, probably not most. Most of it was lost to the great Chicago fire and history. Many LDS folk would say that the BoA was translated from parts that have been lost (convenient huh?). Of course, the Facsimile number 1 (but not #2) has been recovered, and JS’s explanations are very very different than expert explanations.

 

[XuDan]

No,it isn’t. A page of papyrus being “translated”, incorrectly, is right there in the book, that claims to be scripture.

Which is why they are changing the description from scripture to “inspired scripture.” Then they will try to act as though it has always been regarded as “inspired scripture” and not a literal translation. Which is more of the same historical revisionism as I have come to expect from this organization.

 

[lax16]

The BoA is a book either written or translated by JS (or one of his scribes perhaps) and found in the PoGP in LDS scriptures. But I know you meant the papyrus. =)

Most LDS folk know that SOME of the papyrus (certainly not even most) has been recovered, probably not most. Most of it was lost to the great Chicago fire and history. Many LDS folk would say that the BoA was translated from parts that have been lost (convenient huh?). Of course, the Facsimile number 1 (but not #2) has been recovered, and JS’s explanations are very very different than expert explanations.

They were not destroyed in the fire. They were returned to the LDS church.

Jack E. Jarrard, “Rare Papyri Presented to the Church,” Deseret News (Nov 27, 1967) p. 1.
… on the front page of the **1967 LDS Church owned Deseret News **:

NEW YORK: A collection of papyrus manuscripts, long believed to have been destroyed in the Chicago fire of 1871, was presented to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints here Monday by the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

Others either don’t know, or know but believe it to be false, that JS’s interpretation is better than experts. From Boyd K Packer: It is an easy thing for a man with extensive academic training to measure the Church using the principles he has been taught in his professional training as his standard. In my mind it ought to be the other way around. A member of the Church ought always, particularly if he is pursuing extensive academic studies, to judge the professions of man against the revealed word of the Lord.

Now I understand why so many people do not regard BYU as a truly academic and intellectual university.

That is from a talk entitled “the mantle is greater than the intellect”, and mormons are encouraged to judge what is taught by the world, wherever it is taught, against what the church teaches, rather than judging what the church teaches against what is taught by the world.

Wow.

 

[lax16]

Which is why they are changing the description from scripture to “inspired scripture.” Then they will try to act as though it has always been regarded as “inspired scripture” and not a literal translation. Which is more of the same historical revisionism as I have come to expect from this organization.

utlm.org/onlineresources/nytimes1912papyrus.htm

The New York Times
Sunday, December 29, 1912
Museum Walls Proclaim Fraud of Mormon Prophet

Sacred Books Claimed to Have Been Given Divinely
to the First Prophet Are Shown to be Taken from
Old Egyptian Originals, Their Translation Being a
Work of the Imagination—What a Comparison
with Metropolitan Museum Treasures Shows.

The sacred books of the Mormon Church, which this wholly American cult proclaims to **have been given divinely to the first Mormon prophet as a solemn addenda to the known Scriptures,** have now been in circulation in Mormondom for about seventy years. **On their faith that the texts were really produced through the gift and power of God,** hundreds of thousands of devotees have hailed Joseph Smith as the "prophet, seer and revelator" of God, and God's spokesman on earth. His successor, Joseph F. Smith, the present prophet, they hail by the same title, and so strong in their faith that the prophet wields unlimited power in politics, in finance and in religion in at least two Western States.

Within three months the only one of these sacred writings in which the test of scholarship could be applied has been submitted to such a test and its authenticity has been destroyed completely. The walls of the Egyptian rooms of the Metropolitan Museum proclaim it to be a fraud. Dr. Albert M. Lythgoe, Curator of the Egyptian department, voices unequivocally the condemnatory evidence of the mute Egyptian drawings and hieroglyphics. Two eminent scholars in England, two scholars in Germany, and four of the most noted Egyptologists in this country join without a dissenting paragraph in the condemnation.

The sacred Mormon text was susceptible of accurate and complete analysis from the simple fact that it was taken from a genuine Egyptian original. **The translation** was a work of the Mormon prophet's curious imagination.

Within a few weeks all leading officials of the Mormon Church will receive from the Rt. Rev. F. S. Spalding, Episcopal Bishop of Utah, the results of an extended inquiry among the scholars of the world as to the accuracy of the Prophet Joseph Smith's work on ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics [Web-editor: See Why Egyptologists Reject the Book of Abraham]. Bishop Spalding has collected the opinions of the scholars for distribution among the Mormons themselves. He writes to the Mormons in a kindly mood, and describes the ideas of their prophet and founder as "self-delusions" instead of using a shorter and an uglier word.

The “Sacred” Writings.

The sacred writing of the Mormons which Bishop Spalding holds up to the merciless light of modern scholarship is known among Mormons as "The Book of Abraham," and is published in a sacred volume entitled "The Pearl of Great Price." The other two books which the Mormons consider sacred are "The Book of Mormon," which purports to be a history of the American Indians and a white race which formerly dwelt on this Continent with them, and "The Doctrine and Covenants."

The reason why it took seventy years for this test to be applied to this important Mormon writing, which has attracted hundreds of thousands of devout believers to the Mormon cult, is explained by Bishop Spalding in a simple manner. **When the Mormon** **prophet published his translation and proclaimed it divine**, there was no one to challenge him because there was no Egyptian scholarship amounting to anything at that time. The working out of the Egyptian alphabet was a matter of more recent accomplishment, and the scholarship that has grown up in its wake has not had an opportunity to overhaul and submerge the Mormon claim to the divine origin of its sacred work.

It should be mentioned that in addition to their own particular three divine works the Mormons accept the King James version of the Bible, but with the proviso that they accept it only "so far as it is translated correctly." **Their other sacred books they accept without any qualifications whatever.**

In fact when the "Book of Mormon" first appeared it was pointed out in its behalf that it contained in their original purity certain early sections of the Bible which the original settlers of this Continent brought here with them from Jerusalem and kept with their records. It was also said that the Mormon prophet gained access to them through Divine favor. The "Book of Abraham" they especially delighted in because it gave to the Mormons without the corrupting influence of any Christian translation a new history of the world's formation direct from Abraham himself through the medium of an Egyptian mummy. 

When the Mormon prophet obtained his mummy and the papyrus that went with it his followers were in a frenzy of delight over **his powers as a divine translator**. The mummy, in fact, was brought to him because of his reputation as a translator, gained through the use, as a boy, of his "seer stone" in place of the water witch to locate wells, and through the production of his "Book of Mormon."

As his followers already had a good deal of new scripture in his own special revelations, and from the writing on the gold plates he had given back to the Angel, it occurred to the prophet to oblige them with still some more scripture, produced from an Egyptian mummy.