LDS - Where was the "Fear" in Joseph Smiths' First Vision?

[JC_Forgiven]

Joseph Smith told at least seven accounts of his first vision. They can be found here by scrolling down the page to view a side by side comparison of the different statements.

boap.org/LDS/History/HTMLHistory/v1c1history.html

One thing that has always puzzled me, is that in not one of these accounts does Joseph Smith ever convey to us that he was “fearful” in mind or act when he came face to face with Jesus and the Father.

While studying angelophanies in scripture, they often open with an exhortation not to fear. Still even in Joseph’s case of his first vision stories, I think it reasonable to presume that a theophany would be even more intimidating than an angelic appearance.

Has anyone else wondered why the authors in scripture made an effort to tell us about this “fear” they had when encountering the “glory of God”. Abraham, Moses, Ezekiel, Daniel, Peter, James, John, James, Cornelius, and Paul all mention or express their fear one way or another.

Now, I know that just because Joseph Smith doesn’t mention it, doesn’t mean he wasn’t fearful when he saw God’s glory. But I find it a little odd that at least seven different times he told the story, he didn’t seem to share it once.

In one of the First Vision accounts he mentions his concern that the trees in the grove would catch on fire from the bright light that was decending from the sky onto him. Wouldn’t you had remembered just how scared you were when all of this was going on and shared this lasting impression with your audience at least once?

 

[Techno2000]

Joseph Smith told at least seven accounts of his first vision. They can be found here by scrolling down the page to view a side by side comparison of the different statements.

boap.org/LDS/History/HTMLHistory/v1c1history.html

One thing that has always puzzled me, is that in not one of these accounts does Joseph Smith ever convey to us that he was “fearful” in mind or act when he came face to face with Jesus and the Father.

While studying angelophanies in scripture, they often open with an exhortation not to fear. Still even in Joseph’s case of his first vision stories, I think it reasonable to presume that a theophany would be even more intimidating than an angelic appearance.

Has anyone else wondered why the authors in scripture made an effort to tell us about this “fear” they had when encountering the “glory of God”. Abraham, Moses, Ezekiel, Daniel, Peter, James, John, James, Cornelius, and Paul all mention or express their fear one way or another.

Now, I know that just because Joseph Smith doesn’t mention it, doesn’t mean he wasn’t fearful when he saw God’s glory. But I find it a little odd that at least seven different times he told the story, he didn’t seem to share it once.

In one of the First Vision accounts he mentions his concern that the trees in the grove would catch on fire from the bright light that was decending from the sky onto him. Wouldn’t you had remembered just how scared you were when all of this was going on and shared this lasting impression with your audience at least once?

The Mormons will just say that God took away Joseph Smiths Fear because God knew Smith had a Holy Heart and would do right thing with the “Gold Plates”.

 

[ParkerD]

Joseph Smith told at least seven accounts of his first vision. They can be found here by scrolling down the page to view a side by side comparison of the different statements.

boap.org/LDS/History/HTMLHistory/v1c1history.html

One thing that has always puzzled me, is that in not one of these accounts does Joseph Smith ever convey to us that he was “fearful” in mind or act when he came face to face with Jesus and the Father.

While studying angelophanies in scripture, they often open with an exhortation not to fear. Still even in Joseph’s case of his first vision stories, I think it reasonable to presume that a theophany would be even more intimidating than an angelic appearance.

Has anyone else wondered why the authors in scripture made an effort to tell us about this “fear” they had when encountering the “glory of God”. Abraham, Moses, Ezekiel, Daniel, Peter, James, John, James, Cornelius, and Paul all mention or express their fear one way or another.

Now, I know that just because Joseph Smith doesn’t mention it, doesn’t mean he wasn’t fearful when he saw God’s glory. But I find it a little odd that at least seven different times he told the story, he didn’t seem to share it once.

In one of the First Vision accounts he mentions his concern that the trees in the grove would catch on fire from the bright light that was decending from the sky onto him. Wouldn’t you had remembered just how scared you were when all of this was going on and shared this lasting impression with your audience at least once?

JC,
You must have noticed in several of the accounts that Joseph Smith said he experienced a thick darkness that gathered around him and that he felt an unseen enemy was about to destroy him. So in that condition which certainly brought fear to his heart, then when he was delivered from that power of darkness by the coming of the Father and the Son who dispelled the darkness, I think his reaction would have been one of great relief and intense personal peace compared with what he had just gone through moments before. That is what he would remember as he wrote of the experience later, because of the contrast of those feelings.

 

[Rocket_Man]

Abraham, Moses, Ezekiel, Daniel, Peter, James, John, James, Cornelius, and Paul all mention or express their fear one way or another.

Moses: ‘I am the God of your ancestors-the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.’ Moses became terrified and didn’t dare to look.

Paul: When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.

Three Apostles: While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.

Interesting!

 

[Rocket_Man]

JC,
You must have noticed in several of the accounts that Joseph Smith said he experienced a thick darkness that gathered around him and that he felt an unseen enemy was about to destroy him. So in that condition which certainly brought fear to his heart, then when he was delivered from that power of darkness by the coming of the Father and the Son who dispelled the darkness, I think his reaction would have been one of great relief and intense personal peace compared with what he had just gone through moments before. That is what he would remember as he wrote of the experience later, because of the contrast of those feelings.

Humm…So he feared the unseen enemy but did not fear what he could see. Even though what he saw was similair to other theophanies. The contrast of feelings doesn’t seem to make any sense because both of the expierences were both traumatic as we seen in other passages.

 

[ParkerD]

Moses: ‘I am the God of your ancestors-the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.’ Moses became terrified and didn’t dare to look.

John the Revelator: When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.

Three Apostles: While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.

Interesting!

Isn’t it interesting that the boy Samuel didn’t have fear when he asked Elias what he should do when he heard the voice of the Lord, and didn’t have fear when he said “Speak; for thy servant heareth.” I think a youth has less fear than an older person, and more intrinsic faith.

 

[Marie5890]

RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH!!!

God has zero fear of anyone researching the truth!!!

RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH!!!

 

[Rocket_Man]

Isn’t it interesting that the boy Samuel didn’t have fear when he asked Elias what he should do when he heard the voice of the Lord, and didn’t have fear when he said “Speak; for thy servant heareth.” I think a youth has less fear than an older person, and more intrinsic faith.

Samual heard . He did not see God’s glory.

Joseph Smith describes this way: “and saw two glorious personages who exactly resembled each other in features, and likeness, surrounded with a brilliant light which eclipsed the sun at noon-day.” and “I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.”

Paul describes it this way in Acts 26: “I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, blazing around me and my companions. We all fell to the ground”

 

[JC_Forgiven]

Samual heard . He did not see God’s glory.

Joseph Smith describes this way: “and saw two glorious personages who exactly resembled each other in features, and likeness, surrounded with a brilliant light which eclipsed the sun at noon-day.” and “I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.”

Paul describes it this way in Acts 26: “I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, blazing around me and my companions. We all fell to the ground”

Here’s a few more!

And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent. And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling. Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words. - Daniel

Ezekial: This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. When I saw it, I fell facedown, and I heard the voice of one speaking.- Ezekial:

 

[why_me]

In one of the First Vision accounts he mentions his concern that the trees in the grove would catch on fire from the bright light that was decending from the sky onto him. Wouldn’t you had remembered just how scared you were when all of this was going on and shared this lasting impression with your audience at least once?

I don’t think that he experienced fear. We need to remember that he went to the woods to pray in secret to ask Heavenly Father which church to join. He went for a purpose and was expecting an answer to his prayer. First, the darkness appeared and then a bight light that drove the darkness away. I think that I wouldn’t have fear either. I would just be all amazed at the vision before me. No time to be fearful.

Now lets look at the Marian apparitions that appeared to some now catholic saints. I saw no fear in Bernedette or in the children. But they did see beauty.

 

[Techno2000]

JC,
You must have noticed in several of the accounts that Joseph Smith said he experienced a thick darkness that gathered around him and that he felt an unseen enemy was about to destroy him. So in that condition which certainly brought fear to his heart, then when he was delivered from that power of darkness by the coming of the Father and the Son who dispelled the darkness, I think his reaction would have been one of great relief and intense personal peace compared with what he had just gone through moments before. That is what he would remember as he wrote of the experience later, because of the contrast of those feelings.

How do we know that the Father and Son wasn’t Demons fooling Smith ?

Galatians 1:8-9 (King James Version)

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[why_me]

How do we know that the Father and Son wasn’t Demons fooling Smith ?

Galatians 1:8-9 (King James Version)

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

And why would god allow such a thing to happen to a 15 year old boy? And why would god allow this 15 year old boy to be duped when he, the fifteen year old, went into the woods to pray to Him?

Sounds cruel to me.

 

[MrZetterlund]

JC,
You must have noticed in several of the accounts that Joseph Smith said he experienced a thick darkness that gathered around him and that he felt an unseen enemy was about to destroy him. So in that condition which certainly brought fear to his heart, then when he was delivered from that power of darkness by the coming of the Father and the Son who dispelled the darkness, I think his reaction would have been one of great relief and intense personal peace compared with what he had just gone through moments before. That is what he would remember as he wrote of the experience later, because of the contrast of those feelings.

Hey, did you read my thread on LDS yet? It’s really good.

 

[Techno2000]

And why would god allow such a thing to happen to a 15 year old boy? And why would god allow this 15 year old boy to be duped when he, the fifteen year old, went into the woods to pray to Him?

Sounds cruel to me.

We don’t know how Holy this boy was, he might have been involved with the occult his teachings sound very “NEW AGE” to me.

 

[IHeartAquinas]

Praying to God…being enveloped by darkness with a sense that I was about to be destroyed…then suddenly being enveloped with light and two people who weren’t there before suddenly standing before me…

I would not be peaceful. I would not be in awe. I would be confused, frustrated, and, quite likely, terrified. I am not so used to experiencing such supernatural events in my life to suddenly be “relieved” when one supernatural event is overshadowed by another.

Although, the one time I saw Joseph Smith descending upon me while I was under the influence of LSD with yet ANOTHER revelation was quite another matter…

 

[ParkerD]

How do we know that the Father and Son wasn’t Demons fooling Smith ?

Galatians 1:8-9 (King James Version)

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

To the general reader:

With the understanding of what Techno noted here from the epistle of Paul, and with the knowledge that God answers prayers of those who are sincere and fervent and have faith, then you would apply yourself to study of the Bible to find out in detail the attributes of the true gospel, and you would notice the divisions and tendency toward not following the apostles that was already occurring in the days of the apostles that comes across in their epistles.

After applying yourself to study, one who is sincere would pray to ask God if what Joseph Smith described as happening to him could possibly be true. One who is sincere would also read the Book of Mormon since that book is the result of the successive events that Joseph described happening to him. Then one could honestly say in their heart that they had applied themselves to study, and could honestly and sincerely pray and receive an answer from God.

If no study of the Bible, no reading of the Book of Mormon, or no personal righteousness to show sincerity in wanting to follow God’s direction and inspiration, and no personal prayer after these steps have been accomplished, then all the reasoning in the world will not detect whether what Joseph Smith described really happened. Reasoning will probably mock him and his story, but read 1 Corinthians 2 and realize that reasoning alone is foolishness in the eyes of God.

 

[Marie5890]

To the general reader:

With the understanding of what Techno noted here from the epistle of Paul, and with the knowledge that God answers prayers of those who are sincere and fervent and have faith, then you would apply yourself to study of the Bible to find out in detail the attributes of the true gospel, and you would notice the divisions and tendency toward not following the apostles that was already occurring in the days of the apostles that comes across in their epistles.

After applying yourself to study, one who is sincere would pray to ask God if what Joseph Smith described as happening to him could possibly be true. One who is sincere would also read the Book of Mormon since that book is the result of the successive events that Joseph described happening to him. Then one could honestly say in their heart that they had applied themselves to study, and could honestly and sincerely pray and receive an answer from God.

If no study of the Bible, no reading of the Book of Mormon, or no personal righteousness to show sincerity in wanting to follow God’s direction and inspiration, and no personal prayer after these steps have been accomplished, then all the reasoning in the world will not detect whether what Joseph Smith described really happened. Reasoning will probably mock him and his story, but read 1 Corinthians 2 and realize that reasoning alone is foolishness in the eyes of God.

I would also add to sincerely study the early Mormon church’s real history.

Nothing whitewashed, but unvarnished.

And compare the early Mormon church with the Mormon church of today and how it has evolved.

That kind of sincere study is worthy of the time and effort as well.

 

[ParkerD]

To the general reader of this thread:

One should realize that the word “fear” in the Bible is not the same connotation as the word “fear” today. The word “fear” meant “awe and reverence.”

If one reads Joseph Smith’s account, one finds that he began his prayer in the position of kneeling, and that as he describes the events that occurred, he relates that as he recovered his strength “I found myself lying upon my back, looking up into heaven.” So he had indeed fallen down, undoubtedly in awe and reverence and loss of natural strength in the presence of the Father and the Son, who spoke to him with power and authority because of his sincere faith and pure intent which he had shown by studying the Bible and kneeling in prayer.

 

[Techno2000]

To the general reader of this thread:

One should realize that the word “fear” in the Bible is not the same connotation as the word “fear” today. The word “fear” meant “awe and reverence.”

If one reads Joseph Smith’s account, one finds that he began his prayer in the position of kneeling, and that as he describes the events that occurred, he relates that as he recovered his strength “I found myself lying upon my back, looking up into heaven.” So he had indeed fallen down, undoubtedly in awe and reverence and loss of natural strength in the presence of the Father and the Son, who spoke to him with power and authority because of his sincere faith and pure intent which he had shown by studying the Bible and kneeling in prayer.

Parker, I read “The Book of Mormon” cover to cover years ago, and all I can remember is every time I turned the page there was a War, I never could get the point of this “Book”.

 

[why_me]

We don’t know how Holy this boy was, he might have been involved with the occult his teachings sound very “NEW AGE” to me.

He was an average boy raised in a protestant household. He was only 15 when this experience occured.