Lead us not into temptation

[childofmary1143]

In the English version of the Our Father prayer it says lead us not into temptation. To me this is incorrect. God would NEVER lead us into temptation. So why even say it?

As I am sure you know that Latin cannot be directly, accurately translated into English so perhaps its a case of a mistranslation.

In one of St. James Epistles he says quote, “God tempts no man” so wouldn’t that justify what I am saying?

I asked a very good priest about this and he said that it means test. But a temptation is not a test, nor a test a temptation.

Perhaps it should say let us not fall into temptation?

 

[thistle]

In the English version of the Our Father prayer it says lead us not into temptation. To me this is incorrect. God would NEVER lead us into temptation. So why even say it?

As I am sure you know that Latin cannot be directly, accurately translated into English so perhaps its a case of a mistranslation.

In one of St. James Epistles he says quote, “God tempts no man” so wouldn’t that justify what I am saying?

I asked a very good priest about this and he said that it means test. But a temptation is not a test, nor a test a temptation.

Perhaps it should say let us not fall into temptation?

You are just playing with words. They all mean the same thing and I’m sure you know that. Even different Catholic Bibles have different English translations.
For example, your priest is correct. If you take the translation in Catholic Pastoral Edition of the Christian Community Bible the Lord’s Prayer is:

Our Father in Heaven,
holy be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our debts
as we forgive those who are in debt to us.
Do not bring us to the test
but deliver us from the Evil One.

This also happens to be the version we pray at Mass in our church.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

If you read books like “The Imitation of Christ” you will see that God often will allow temptations to be in our way, in order to test us, strengthen us, and advance us further in faith.

While He himself does not actively tempt us, He uses the devil’s temptations for our benefit–as always, God brings good from evil. He lets the devil use temptations in order that they can backfire, to the devil’s chagrin.

 

[Will_Pick]

You are just playing with words. They all mean the same thing and I’m sure you know that. Even different Catholic Bibles have different English translations.
For example, your priest is correct. If you take the translation in Catholic Pastoral Edition of the Christian Community Bible the Lord’s Prayer is:

Our Father in Heaven,
holy be your name,
your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our debts
as we forgive those who are in debt to us.
Do not bring us to the test
but deliver us from the Evil One.

This also happens to be the version we pray at Mass in our church.

Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come; thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses
as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not
into temptation but deliver us from evil. Amen.
(based on Mt. 6:9-13 and Lk. 11:2-4)

 

[demerzel85]

Et ne nos inducas in tentationem = and lead us not into temptation; and this would be a literal translation.

Personally ‘do not bring us to the test’ is seriously not only a poor translation but a poor expression of Catholic Theology. Many Saints of the Latin Rite uttered the words ‘et ne nos inducas in tentationem’ and it served them well.

 

[childofmary1143]

I appreciate all the responses here but let me ask you this question then. What is a temptation?

For me its an urging or desire to do something sinful.

Let me give an example. Say you come to visit me in a city you have never been to. So being the good host I will show you around the different sites. But lets say I tell you that we are going to a bar and it turns out to be a strip bar. Now a strip bar is certainly a place of temptation. Are you to tell me that I would bear no guilt or have committed sinful actions if I did that to you? Of course I would.

Do you actually think God would too?

A trial is not a temptation. God allows all sorts of evil things to go on but that doesn’t change the fact that they are evil, and yes God can bring good out of evil but that doesn’t mean the evil is justified or even considered good.

 

[thistle]

Et ne nos inducas in tentationem = and lead us not into temptation; and this would be a literal translation.

Personally ‘do not bring us to the test’ is seriously not only a poor translation but a poor expression of Catholic Theology. Many Saints of the Latin Rite uttered the words ‘et ne nos inducas in tentationem’ and it served them well.

On the other hand the NT was written in Greek, not Latin and the Greek words are more akin to test than temptation.

Greek with literal English translation:

kai mE eispherO egO eis peirasmos

and no you-may-be-into-carrying us into trial

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Well, I think you’re confusing temptation with ‘giving in to temptation.’

A strip bar can cause ‘lustful thoughts’ but those thoughts are not sinful unless you consent to them.

And in fact, if you unexpectedly encounter something tempting–for men, seeing a girl in a bikini. . .and you deliberately avert your eyes, say a prayer, remove yourself–you have not given into temptation. Not only have you **not ** commited a sin, you have done something good and praiseworthy by rising above the temptations.

There is no way to ‘avoid’ temptations, but every person with God’s help can resist temptation.

Does that help to explain?

 

[childofmary1143]

Well, I think you’re confusing temptation with ‘giving in to temptation.’

A strip bar can cause ‘lustful thoughts’ but those thoughts are not sinful unless you consent to them.

And in fact, if you unexpectedly encounter something tempting–for men, seeing a girl in a bikini. . .and you deliberately avert your eyes, say a prayer, remove yourself–you have not given into temptation. Not only have you **not ** commited a sin, you have done something good and praiseworthy by rising above the temptations.

There is no way to ‘avoid’ temptations, but every person with God’s help can resist temptation.

Does that help to explain?

Thank you Tantum but I think perhaps I should express that situation not from the eyes of the person who was led there but more from the person who led him/her there. While it is true that a temptation is not a sin it can lead to sin and I think it would be sinful if a person led a person there knowing full well its an occasion of sin. As Catholics we are obliged to avoid the near occasions of sin and that would certainly apply to locations that we know sin exist.

I am bringing this up as its my belief that God does not LEAD US into sin but yes gives us trials.

 

[demerzel85]

On the other hand the NT was written in Greek, not Latin and the Greek words are more akin to test than temptation.

Yes, but I will trust St Jerome’s Latin Vulgate on this matter since it is without error, and the translators at Rheims who rendered it ‘and lead us not into temptation’. The ‘trial’ in Greek is also much clearer than the vague ‘test’.

Personally, since I am of the Latin Rite, I pray the prayer in its entirety in Latin. If I was a Greek Catholic then I would pray it in Greek. If I was a Maronite Catholic then I’d pray it in Aramaic.

 

[tassitus]

I think I understand childofmary’s question, and can only add that a footnote to the Douay-Rheims states:

“Lead us not into temptation. That is, suffer us not to be overcome by temptation.”

I am sure this note is preferable in childofmary’s eyes to the actual scriptural verse, but does not answer his question.

I do note that, in addition to saying the Our Father many times a day, I regularly ask or petition our Father not to do something we know he will NEVER do. That is, I find myself praying that God not abandon me. Now why do I feel the need to do that? Knowing in my heart that he never will, yet still I ask.

Perhaps this is similar to the “lead us not into temptation”, and perhaps even childofmary has his or her own version of this type of prayer to compare the verse to.

Peace all.

 

[tassitus]

Or better yet, now that I think of it:

The *Catechism of the Catholic Church *explains:

This petition goes to the root of the preceding one, for our sins result from our consenting to temptation; we therefore ask our Father not to “lead” us into temptation. **It is difficult to translate the Greek verb used by a single English word: the Greek means both “do not allow us to enter into temptation” and “do not let us yield to temptation.” . . . **We are engaged in the battle “between flesh and spirit”; this petition implores the Spirit of discernment and strength (CCC 2846).

Now off for a turkey sandwich!

 

[childofmary1143]

Or better yet, now that I think of it:

The *Catechism of the Catholic Church *explains:

This petition goes to the root of the preceding one, for our sins result from our consenting to temptation; we therefore ask our Father not to “lead” us into temptation. **It is difficult to translate the Greek verb used by a single English word: the Greek means both “do not allow us to enter into temptation” and “do not let us yield to temptation.” . . . **We are engaged in the battle “between flesh and spirit”; this petition implores the Spirit of discernment and strength (CCC 2846).

Now off for a turkey sandwich!

Bingo!!

The Catechism which I hadn’t read in regard to this in my opinion substantiates my “amended” version. let us not fall into temptation

Thank you all. Thank you very much

 

[Ignatius]

Or better yet, now that I think of it:

The *Catechism of the Catholic Church *explains:
This petition goes to the root of the preceding one, for our sins result from our consenting to temptation; we therefore ask our Father not to “lead” us into temptation. **It is difficult to translate the Greek verb used by a single English word: the Greek means both “do not allow us to enter into temptation” and “do not let us yield to temptation.” . . . **We are engaged in the battle “between flesh and spirit”; this petition implores the Spirit of discernment and strength (CCC 2846).

Good work tassitus.

When will be learn to go the the Catechism first when we have a question about understanding the Bible?

 

[Steven_Merten]

Hello Child of Mary,

Have you ever read the biblical book of Job?

Have you ever pondered about the Father allowing Jesus to be tempted by Satan in the desert?

Being subject to the temptation of evil and percivering through it in obedience is actually an atribute to those who achieve it. Especially in the case of Jesus in His crucifixion. Still, even Jesus prayed that His cup (his crucifixion) pass Him by, NAB LUK 22:42 “Father, if it is your will, take this cup from me; yet not my will but yours be done.”
NAB 1PE 1:6

There is cause for rejoicing here. You may for a time have to suffer the distress of many trials; but this is so that your faith, which is more precious than the passing splendor of fire-tried gold, may by its genuineness lead to praise, glory, and honor when Jesus Christ appears.NAB SIR 35:1

To keep the law is a great oblation, and he who observes the commandments sacrifices a peace offering. In works of charity one offers fine flour, and when he gives alms he presents his sacrifice of praise. To refrain from evil pleases the LORD, and to avoid injustice is an atonement. Appear not before the LORD empty handed, for all that you offer is in fulfillment of the precepts. The just man’s offering enriches the altar and rises as a sweet odor before the Most High. The just man’s sacrifice is most pleasing, nor will it ever be forgotten. In generous spirit pay homage to the LORD, be not sparing of freewill gifts. With each contribution show a cheerful countenance, and pay your tithes in a spirit of joy. Give to the Most High as he has given to you generously, according to your means. For the LORD is one who always repays, and he will give back to you sevenfold.NAB SIR 17:17

A man’s goodness God cherishes like a signet ring, a man’s virtue, like the apple of his eye.

The Lord’s prayer

“‘Subject us not to trial but deliver us from the evil one.’” **NAB SIR 28:2 **

You have saved me from death, and kept back my body from the pit, From the clutches of the nether world you have snatched my feet; you have delivered me, in your great mercy, From the scourge of the slanderous tonge, and from lips that went over to falsehood; From the snare of those who watched for my downfall, and from the power of those who sought my life; From many a danger you have saved me, from the flames that hemmed me in on every side; From the midst of unremitting fire, from the deep belly of the nether world; From deceiving lips and painters of lies, from the arrows of dishonest tongues. I was at the point of death, my soul was nearing the depths of the nether world; I turned every way, but there was no one to help me, I looked for one to sustain me, but could find no one. But then I remembered the mercies of the LORD, his kindness through ages past; For he saves those who take refuge in him, and rescues them from every evil. (SIR 23:1-6)​

 

[childofmary1143]

Hello Child of Mary,

Have you ever read the biblical book of Job?

Have you ever pondered about the Father allowing Jesus to be tempted by Satan in the desert?

Being subject to the temptation of evil and percivering through it in obedience is actually an atribute to those who achieve it. Especially in the case of Jesus in His crucifixion. Still, even Jesus prayed that His cup (his crucifixion) pass Him by, NAB LUK 22:42 “Father, if it is your will, take this cup from me; yet not my will but yours be done.”
NAB 1PE 1:6

I am somewhat familiar with Job but I think it should be said that allowing temptations (God does allow a lot of things to happen to us) and leading us to temptations are 2 completely different things.

Temptation can lead us to sin. Possibly grievous sin (mortal) and that would cut us off from God’s grace until we confess. How could God ever lead us to a situation where we could be cut off from him? It could never happen. He loves us.