Leaders of Catholic orders say Vatican can't bully them

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**Saturday, August 21, 2004 **

**By SUSAN HOGAN/ALBACH / The Dallas Morning News **

FORT WORTH – The 1,000 leaders of U.S. Catholic religious orders meeting at the Fort Worth Convention Center on Saturday said that following Jesus simply didn’t mean being dutiful mouthpieces for the Vatican or the American bishops.

Rather, they urged one another not to allow the church to be hijacked by seemingly dictatorial pronouncements by a conservative hierarchy. Be bold, prophetic and, when necessary, even defiant, they told one another.

“A lot of religious communities have concerns about speaking out because they fear the Vatican or their bishops will sanction them,” said Sister Carol Beckermann, a Franciscan nun from St. Louis. “We can’t let that intimidate us any longer.”

The leaders were from the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, which represents 73,000 U.S. nuns, and the Conference of Major Superiors of Men, which represents 2,000 priests and brothers belonging to male religious orders.

The organizations represent the majority of religious orders in the United States, which have seen dramatic drops in membership since the 1960s. The groups tend to be progressive theologically. Only a few sisters wore traditional veils, and almost none of the men were cloaked in clerical garb.

They told one another not to be cowed into silence by the Vatican on issues such as the role of women in the church and priests who wanted the celibacy rule lifted. It was daring talk that appealed to attendees and stirred many to their feet in rousing applause.

“Security in our church has come to be identified with the controlling power of the clergy to the detriment of the people in the pews,” said the Rev. Michael Crosby, a priest from Milwaukee. “We are perishing numerically because we have not been public enough in our protest of patriarchy.”

The leaders came to Fort Worth to reflect on what they could do about violence in almost all forms. But there was virtually no mention of sexual violence or the abuse scandals within religious orders, which victims protested earlier in the week.

Many of the religious leaders said the church hierarchy was fostering theological violence by imposing narrow interpretations of doctrine. As an example, they pointed to the movement by some bishops to bar people from Holy Communion because of their political beliefs.

“I am speaking of the sinful, structural and systemic violence that has come to be canonized in a certain understanding of holiness,” Father Crosby said.

Leaders also pondered the link between religion and violence. They reflected on what it would take to create a lasting culture of peace.

Sister Constance Phelps, president of the women’s conference, said part of the answer rested in being good witnesses for peace by the way they lived.

“In the face of escalating violence, let us be the face of escalating love,” she said.
 
These communities are in self-destruct mode, by virtue of their liberal views that hold little or no appeal to anyone seriously seeking to serve our Lord.

Perhaps the church is following the old adage: “Give a person enough rope and they will hang themselves”.
 
“Theological violence?”

If I was one of the victims of abuse I would be as mad as h*** that they would have the arrogance to equate sexual violence with the just chastisement they receive from the Vatican.
 
Patriarchal is another denigrating term promoted by feminists who cause division between men and women. Dissenters typical usage of Patriarchal is to simultaneously attack the all-male priesthood and the hierarchical nature of the Church leadership. The former is viewed by feminists as an affront to women since their self-proclaimed ‘right’ to “priestess-hood” is being ‘oppressed.’ The Church teaches infallibly that the priesthood is a male-only role because Jesus Christ is male and the priest acts “in personna Christi” which means in the very person of Christ. Of course the feminists are pursuing the ‘female christ’ called “SophiaChrist.” The latter attack against the hierarchical nature of the Church is to push a “democratic version” of the Catholic Church. What is clear is that such dissenters, while spouting the [Spirit of Vatican II](Vocabulary of Terms Commonly Used by Dissenters of Vatican II), refuse to accept the direct teaching of Vatican II in that the Church is hierarchical! Begin with Chapter III #18 of Lumen Gentium or see the shorter subset ["]reference [12]]("Vocabulary of Terms Commonly Used by Dissenters[12) for proof. Many Protestant churches support both women clergy and doctrine by democratic vote - why don’t the dissenters move into those churches?
 
I’m thinking the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal, Fr. Benedict Groeschel’s order, somehow wasn’t a part of this conference. I’m also thinking their numbers are “perishing” due to their “progressive views,” not from being “bullyed” by the Vatican. I wonder how many of these sisters and nuns spent at least part of the conference whining about not being able to be priests.
 
I began to spot names of CTA call to action-associated feminists and other CTA or dissident authors listed as RENEW 2000 contributors or in citations. For example, RENEW 2000 quotes CTA Feminist Sandra Schneiders (see “sacred sodomy” reference above); Schneider’s photo appears on a CTA News’ cover, receiving a standing ovation at a CTA conference for her speech promoting female priests. Other RENEW 2000 names which raised my suspicions include: Monika Hellwig, Joann Wolski Conn, Elizabeth Johnson, Michael Crosby, and Thomas Berry
 
The most visible dissenting group which is a movement of laity and religious seeking to reform the “sinful structure” of the “patriarchal” Church. One could call them the “mother of all dissenting groups” - feminist pun intended. CTA is infamous since its 1994 conference coverage on the CBS news program 60 Minutes. CTA promotes dissent against Church teachings on a broad front, including women’s ordination, homosexuality, creation spirituality, married priesthood, and liturgical reforms, while incorporating new age and Wiccan spirituality. Bishop Bruskewitz excommunicated those that belong to this group in his Diocese. Many members belong to local groups called “small faith communities.” Renew 2000 also promotes small faith communities. Membership draws heavily from former clergy, feminist nuns, and homosexuals.

It sounds like these guys:bigyikes:
 
I would really love a list of which women’s religious orders are members of this conference so I know who to avoid. Maybe a list of those who aren’t members would be shorter though??
 
The Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, while they are not an Order (they are a Society of Apostolic Life), are experiencing a vocations explosion. Despite building a new, larger seminary in Lincoln, NE, they continue to turn away vocations for lack of space.
 
What a sin that so many formerly Catholic religious communities have been so infected by New Age ****. All of us have probably been exposed to nuns and some priests who teach and espouse this garbage.

What they don’t realize is that they no longer have much relevance to anyone except among their own ilk - feminists and radical progressives among the laity and clergy. Sadly, a lot of these nuns mostly make their money off of the Church because they are DREs and pastoral associates and they work in the chanceries.
 
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Fast_ed75:
The organizations represent the majority of religious orders in the United States, which have seen dramatic drops in membership since the 1960s. The groups tend to be progressive theologically. Only a few sisters wore traditional veils, and almost none of the men were cloaked in clerical garb.
Looking at the all warning clues in the paragraph I quoted. drops in membership, out of habit, progressive theologically (i.e. dissenters)).

I am curious if this was a meeting of just dissenters. There are many good orders (with increasing memberships) and the overwhelming majority where their habits.

The article itself trys to present this as the norm. It is not.
 
In my opinion, the Vatican hasn’t come down quite hard enough on thier type.

What really makes me angry and frustrated is what this does to all vocations. My guess is that most of the vocations to Religious Life (especially women) come from relatively devout and/or orthodox families. Not that others aren’t called, just that those with little or no catchesis probably don’t recognize the call. So what does the young woman do if she is discerning a vocation? She calls the chancery and is given a list of orders to investigate. In order to be PC, the chancery vocational director probably doesn’t give a lot of information about who is “good” and who might be “a little off”. So our poor girl visits several from the list. She runs into the crowd represented in this article. Maybe she even attends a Woman’s Eucharist. She meets some sisters who openly support gay lifestyles or “family planning” along with their missions to the poor. She is confused and conflicted. So in addition to causing a decline in the ranks of thier own orders, these dissenting religious discourage vocations to religious life in all the orders.

Sorry, rant over.
 
T.A.Stobie:
Looking at the all warning clues in the paragraph I quoted. drops in membership, out of habit, progressive theologically (i.e. dissenters)).

I am curious if this was a meeting of just dissenters. There are many good orders (with increasing memberships) and the overwhelming majority where their habits.

The article itself trys to present this as the norm. It is not.
I think that the more orthodox, and growing orders, of women formed their own association a few years ago. It was a major blow to the status of this group who protested mightily when the Vatican approved it. I think they are organized as the Council of Major Superiors of Women Religious.
 
As lay people…I wonder how bizarre it will be when we look down from Heaven at so many “religious” wailing away in Hell.
 
  • Many Protestant churches support both women clergy and doctrine by democratic vote - why don’t the dissenters move into those churches?*
Unfortunately, their views would be welcome in many mainline denominations, many of these nuns find it their mission to coopt the Catholic Church to their heterodox beliefs and force them on the laity- many of which are unsuspecting of the agenda that they are feeding them.

This started showing up in the late sixties. A lot of them started losing their traditional faith, and at the same time the church was taking nuns and priests out of seminaries and putting them in secular universities where they imbibed the Leftism of the era. When nuns lose their faith they feel VERY irrelevant and angry, and Left-wing politics becomes a substitute religion. It’s a lot more fun for them than teaching runny-nosed third-graders.
 
Fast_ed75 said:
**Saturday, August 21, 2004 **

**By SUSAN HOGAN/ALBACH / The Dallas Morning News **

FORT WORTH – The 1,000 leaders of U.S. Catholic religious orders meeting at the Fort Worth Convention Center on Saturday said that following Jesus simply didn’t mean being dutiful mouthpieces for the Vatican or the American bishops.

Rather, they urged one another not to allow the church to be hijacked by seemingly dictatorial pronouncements by a conservative hierarchy. Be bold, prophetic and, when necessary, even defiant, they told one another.

“A lot of religious communities have concerns about speaking out because they fear the Vatican or their bishops will sanction them,” said Sister Carol Beckermann, a Franciscan nun from St. Louis. “We can’t let that intimidate us any longer.”

The leaders were from the Leadership Conference of Women Religious, which represents 73,000 U.S. nuns, and the Conference of Major Superiors of Men, which represents 2,000 priests and brothers belonging to male religious orders.

The organizations represent the majority of religious orders in the United States, which have seen dramatic drops in membership since the 1960s. The groups tend to be progressive theologically. Only a few sisters wore traditional veils, and almost none of the men were cloaked in clerical garb.

They told one another not to be cowed into silence by the Vatican on issues such as the role of women in the church and priests who wanted the celibacy rule lifted. It was daring talk that appealed to attendees and stirred many to their feet in rousing applause.

“Security in our church has come to be identified with the controlling power of the clergy to the detriment of the people in the pews,” said the Rev. Michael Crosby, a priest from Milwaukee. “We are perishing numerically because we have not been public enough in our protest of patriarchy.”

The leaders came to Fort Worth to reflect on what they could do about violence in almost all forms. But there was virtually no mention of sexual violence or the abuse scandals within religious orders, which victims protested earlier in the week.

Many of the religious leaders said the church hierarchy was fostering theological violence by imposing narrow interpretations of doctrine. As an example, they pointed to the movement by some bishops to bar people from Holy Communion because of their political beliefs.

“I am speaking of the sinful, structural and systemic violence that has come to be canonized in a certain understanding of holiness,” Father Crosby said.

Leaders also pondered the link between religion and violence. They reflected on what it would take to create a lasting culture of peace.

Sister Constance Phelps, president of the women’s conference, said part of the answer rested in being good witnesses for peace by the way they lived.

“In the face of escalating violence, let us be the face of escalating love,” she said.

The second paragraph says it all. Those words are not words of love, but defiance. If these religious ever want to become saints, they should follow in the footsteps of the great Saints. St Catherine of Sienna spoke out against errors and injustices, but as far as I know of what I read about her, she never used inflammatory language, as it shows in the rest of the article.

Even if certain rules were used against a saint in an unjust manner, they are known to obey the authority placed above them. The saint knew that the ruling was unjust, but nevertheless they obeyed. In the end they were vindicated and they are now recognized and celebrated for the Saints that they are. Their virtue was not defiance, but Humility.

Theodora
 
Part of it stems from their world view; although they do not articulate it well, they believe the world is flat.

And they all turned left, took twenty steps, and fell off the edge… 😛
 
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Charlemagne:
The Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, while they are not an Order (they are a Society of Apostolic Life), are experiencing a vocations explosion. Despite building a new, larger seminary in Lincoln, NE, they continue to turn away vocations for lack of space.
This stands to reason. The mainstream Church builds a worldview that promotes self-affirmation, personal fulfillment and that values dissent. This positively discourages vocations. The “traditional” wing of the Church builds a worldview that values adherence to Church teaching, personal sacrifice, and self-offering. This is good news for those who are faithful to the Magisterium.

Pray for ALL of our priests and faithful Religious.
 
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