Leap of Faith

[Dave_B]

I am reading an apologist book, Reason for God, by Tim Keller. In that he mentions that both the existence and non-existence of God cannot be definitively proven, and therefore Christianity requires a leap of faith, but also atheism requires a leap of faith.

Naturalism as a philosophy, i.e. that only the natural exists in the universe and not the supernatural, is a philosophical position that is based on a set of unprovable assumptions and requires a leap of faith by skeptics. One way or the other a leap of faith is required for us to adopt a worldview on the natural/supernatural.

Dear Moderators, I do not wish to breach guidelines and am aware that discussion of atheism is banned. I am not wishing to breach the forum rules, so if this thread topic is not acceptable please close the thread. Thank you.

 

[ServantPD]

Naturalism is simply an absurd worldview, basing their physical and metaphysical propositions on simple assumptions that aren’t founded in any way possible, while claiming that they’re following the evidence wherever it leads. The fact that they reject so much without evidence to prove their falsity makes me wonder if it’s us or them, that are doing a bigger leap of faith.

I mean seriously, I never deduced that all my five senses give a complete and detailed description of reality - I affirm there’s something out there that I can’t see. Why don’t they do the same?

 

[Dave_B]

I mean seriously, I never deduced that all my five senses give a complete and detailed description of reality - I affirm there’s something out there that I can’t see. Why don’t they do the same?

Hi SPD, I think many people come up with a set of beliefs and then look to justify them afterwards. With naturalism, they ignore the evidence from the creation “The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork” Psalm 19 as the intial assumption is that the creation has made itself by coincidence after coincidence.

 

[CatholicSoxFan]

I love it when many atheists say that science is the only method of finding truth, when scientific methods are, by their very nature, philosophical. It’s like they’ve been told this so many times, but they never seem to be able to understand it.

 

[oldcelt]

Naturalism is simply an absurd worldview, basing their physical and metaphysical propositions on simple assumptions that aren’t founded in any way possible, while claiming that they’re following the evidence wherever it leads. The fact that they reject so much without evidence to prove their falsity makes me wonder if it’s us or them, that are doing a bigger leap of faith.

I mean seriously, I never deduced that all my five senses give a complete and detailed description of reality - I affirm there’s something out there that I can’t see. Why don’t they do the same?

I agree with that. Observation alone leaves some things open. God is the being that fills the gap. Will science ever prove another solution? I don’t know, but I am not expecting that any time soon.

 

[steve49]

Dear Moderators, I do not wish to breach guidelines and am aware that discussion of atheism is banned. I am not wishing to breach the forum rules, so if this thread topic is not acceptable please close the thread. Thank you.

Nice disclaimer. Thanks for trying to get as close to the line as you can. We need to learn how to proclaim the truth in a hostel environment.

But to your point:

Dear Moderators, thanks for all that you do, may God Bless you and keep you and let of His Face shine down upon you.

 

[retire_early]

Once I came across, “Faith has no merit where human reason supplies proof” (St. Gregory), I felt like I filled in the last word on the crossword puzzle and was finished with debate. Some of us are such simpletons! :whacky:

 

[empther]

I am reading an apologist book, Reason for God, by Tim Keller. In that he mentions that both the existence and non-existence of God cannot be definitively proven, and therefore Christianity requires a leap of faith , but also atheism requires a leap of faith.

I don’t believe in God and the human soul through faith. It’s an inescapable conclusion.

Let’s play the devil’s advocate.

There is no God and no human soul. Man is an animal.

Spiders can make elaborate webs and that’s quite a trick, but that’s all they can do.

Birds can make nests and that’s quite a trick, but that’s all they can do.

Sperm whales can dive 2,500 hundred feet and find giant squid in total darkness and that’s quite a trick, but that’s all they can do.

Small bats around here make a living by catching mosquitoes in mid-air using sonar in pitch darkness and that’s quite a trick, but that’s all they can do.

Man can do a seemingly unlimited number of things with his body alone and with an unlimited number of tools and learn new things literally in a moment, and he can understand any new concept presented to him in a logical manner, besides having esthetic appreciation for art and literature which he also produces, each such piece of art or writing having a purposeful uniqueness, not a chaotic one, and all of which can be understood by every other person.
This man is an animal! :bigyikes:

Nothing could be more impossible, ridiculous, and stupid.

 

[CatholicSoxFan]

I don’t believe in God and the human soul through faith. It’s an inescapable conclusion.

Let’s play the devil’s advocate.

There is no God and no human soul. Man is an animal.

Spiders can make elaborate webs and that’s quite a trick, but that’s all they can do.

Birds can make nests and that’s quite a trick, but that’s all they can do.

Sperm whales can dive 2,500 hundred feet and find giant squid in total darkness and that’s quite a trick, but that’s all they can do.

Small bats around here make a living by catching mosquitoes in mid-air using sonar in pitch darkness and that’s quite a trick, but that’s all they can do.

Man can do a seemingly unlimited number of things with his body alone and with an unlimited number of tools and learn new things literally in a moment, and he can understand any new concept presented to him in a logical manner, besides having esthetic appreciation for art and literature which he also produces, each such piece of art or writing having a purposeful uniqueness, not a chaotic one, and all of which can be understood by every other person.
This man is an animal! :bigyikes:

Nothing could be more impossible, ridiculous, and stupid.

Also, if materialism is true, our mind, our thoughts, and our beliefs are all material. And since truth value is not a property that matter can have, none of our beliefs can be true or false, including the belief in materialism.