Learn from Pentecostals, Catholic leader says

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JustaServant said:
So, with all due respect to the Cardinal, the opposite is true. Pentecostals have a lot to learn from Catholics.
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Tim Staples became Christian as a Pentecostal. Yes, he now knows the fuller truth of the Catholic Church … but, I don’t think he would every say he was not SAVED before he converted to the Universal Church.

Salvation Conversion can happen in any Protestant setting where the gospel is proclaimed. And, especially in the Pentecostal Church where the gospel message is proclaimed with vigor … and the Rebirth by H.S. is emphasized.
 
brb3 said:
Tim Staples became Christian as a Pentecostal. Yes, he now knows the fuller truth of the Catholic Church … but, I don’t think he would every say he was not SAVED before he converted to the Universal Church.

Salvation Conversion can happen in any Protestant setting where the gospel is proclaimed. And, especially in the Pentecostal Church where the gospel message is proclaimed with vigor … and the Rebirth by H.S. is emphasized.
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Salvation is a process, not an ‘event’.
 
Mark77 said:
2 problems here;

#1: The Catholics who leave to become Pentecostals are uneducated on the Truths of the Faith, which is no excuse, but could be the case, or…

#2: The Catholics who leave are like me, unwilling to do as Jesus asked us; "And he said to all, “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.” (Lk 9:32)…WOW, THAT’S REALLY HARD TO DO! i would rather go to a Pentecostal service & say i love Jesus & then that’s it!!1

i agree with Papa Benedictus XVI when he said we would be better off with fewer total Catholics, and more genuine Catholics!

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Pecatoribus!

mark
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#1 FALSE

I was educated in the truths of the faith when I was young, but left the Catholic Church {in the Archdiocese of Portland} because of extreme liberalism in my parish. I was scandalized by three different priests who were a. agnostic, b. flaming gay when drunk, and c. condescending and blowing cigarette smoke in my face when my mom did bring me to speak to him of some of my questions, when i was 17. I loved the Lord and wanted to follow Him and be a missionary. I wore a brown scapular. But I did not have the resources of the internet that are available today, and I did not know how to defend my faith. As a teenager and college student in the early 80s, I didn’t know how to search out the Catholic resources that are available today. I do blame the liberals in the church for my wandering. I can’t help but be angry at everything I lost for my twenty yrs of wandering through evangelicalism. How is a kid supposed to know any better?
 
JustaServant said:
Salvation is a process, not an ‘event’.
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Yes, thanks for the reminder 😃 And, many Catholics got their ‘initial wings’ as/from Pentecostal roots. Those Pentecostal brethren can Preach ! And, they have the best Praise Worship music also. Example, Hillsong church’s Praise music … from the downunder Australia. I’d bet you have listened to it and enjoy/sing it too 🙂
 
brb3 said:
Yes, thanks for the reminder 😃 And, many Catholics got their ‘initial wings’ as/from Pentecostal roots. Those Pentecostal brethren can Preach ! And, they have the best Praise Worship music also. Example, Hillsong church’s Praise music … from the downunder Australia. I’d bet you have listened to it and enjoy/sing it too 🙂
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Loved the music, but had to walk out of one of their concerts. Was protestant at the time, but couldn’t put up with the false (unorthodox) teaching. Also couldn’t think of exposing my own kids to the weirdness that was going on at that concert. Leave the preaching to the teachers, let the musicians play their music. It was borderline cultic.
 
graceandglory said:
#1 FALSE

I was educated in the truths of the faith when I was young, but left the Catholic Church {in the Archdiocese of Portland} because of extreme liberalism in my parish. I was scandalized by three different priests who were a. agnostic, b. flaming gay when drunk, and c. condescending and blowing cigarette smoke in my face when my mom did bring me to speak to him of some of my questions, when i was 17. I loved the Lord and wanted to follow Him and be a missionary. I wore a brown scapular. But I did not have the resources of the internet that are available today, and I did not know how to defend my faith. As a teenager and college student in the early 80s, I didn’t know how to search out the Catholic resources that are available today. I do blame the liberals in the church for my wandering. I can’t help but be angry at everything I lost for my twenty yrs of wandering through evangelicalism. How is a kid supposed to know any better?
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Don’t be too angry. 😉
But you make a point that is very important. Identifying the 800 pound gorilla in the room can be very uncomfortable for people.
 
brb3 said:
Yes, thanks for the reminder 😃 And, many Catholics got their ‘initial wings’ as/from Pentecostal roots. Those Pentecostal brethren can Preach ! And, they have the best Praise Worship music also. Example, Hillsong church’s Praise music … from the downunder Australia. I’d bet you have listened to it and enjoy/sing it too 🙂
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For me, as the magnet toward Rome was getting stronger, I was still attending occasionally a (rather charismatic) Christian Missionary Alliance church. One Sunday, they had great, uplifting, hand clapping, hand-raising music. Very emotional. Everyone was having a great time.
Except me.
I was bored to tears and it all seemed so lifeless and artificial. Childish.
What would have attracted me years before, had no more meaning to me. I knew then I was no longer evangelical. The CMA church in question is filled with a fine group of people who remain my friends, including the pastor. It wasn’t them so much. It’s just that I could no longer pretend to be something I was not.
Do I ‘enjoy and listen to it now’? No, I grew up spiritually.
 
JustaServant said:
For me, as the magnet toward Rome was getting stronger, I was still attending occasionally a (rather charismatic) Christian Missionary Alliance church. One Sunday, they had great, uplifting, hand clapping, hand-raising music. Very emotional. Everyone was having a great time.
Except me.

The CMA church in question is filled with a fine group of people who remain my friends, including the pastor. It wasn’t them so much. It’s just that I could no longer pretend to be something I was not.
Do I ‘enjoy and listen to it now’? No, I grew up spiritually.
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We all go thru phases in Christian lives. We are all God’s workmanship in process. 3 years ago I was being judged severely for years of apostasy living. God used the Assembly of God’s Hillsong music to cheer me to recovery of lost faith. The lyrics of those songs are very special, the rhythm/beat is so uplifting.

Let us recall that David was a music man, and how his praise music so often helped Saul. God uses praise/worship music to bring many to his Son. Do we ever outgrow praise/worship music ? I hope not. Today, when I make a long trip by car, and get so tired of the stuff on radio … I pop in my Hillsong Music CD’s and soar to the heavens with musical revival. God bless the Pentecostals … we need them all in the Catholic Church to teach us how to preach and sing to our Lord.
 
graceandglory said:
#1 FALSE

I was educated in the truths of the faith when I was young, but left the Catholic Church {in the Archdiocese of Portland} because of extreme liberalism in my parish. I was scandalized by three different priests who were a. agnostic, b. flaming gay when drunk, and c. condescending and blowing cigarette smoke in my face when my mom did bring me to speak to him of some of my questions, when i was 17. I loved the Lord and wanted to follow Him and be a missionary. I wore a brown scapular. But I did not have the resources of the internet that are available today, and I did not know how to defend my faith. As a teenager and college student in the early 80s, I didn’t know how to search out the Catholic resources that are available today. I do blame the liberals in the church for my wandering. I can’t help but be angry at everything I lost for my twenty yrs of wandering through evangelicalism. How is a kid supposed to know any better?
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i feel for you and quite understand what happened to you. but the Grace of God has brought you back. thanks be to God.

i still see this happened today. the liberalism still very much alive in the Church, i have to be carefull what i say around the people in my Parish. they seem so far off from the teachings of the CC. they have been advocating for Catholics to go to protestants churches, apparently father has been teaching them this sort of stuff. they could stone me if i say anything about the true teachings of the Church, they dont believe me and dont want to hear.
 
brb3 said:
We all go thru phases in Christian lives. We are all God’s workmanship in process. 3 years ago I was being judged severely for years of apostasy living. God used the Assembly of God’s Hillsong music to cheer me to recovery of lost faith. The lyrics of those songs are very special, the rhythm/beat is so uplifting.

Let us recall that David was a music man, and how his praise music so often helped Saul. God uses praise/worship music to bring many to his Son. Do we ever outgrow praise/worship music ? I hope not. Today, when I make a long trip by car, and get so tired of the stuff on radio … I pop in my Hillsong Music CD’s and soar to the heavens with musical revival. God bless the Pentecostals … we need them all in the Catholic Church to teach us how to preach and sing to our Lord.
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what kind of instrument did David play do you know?
 
wisdomseeker said:
what kind of instrument did David play do you know?
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a harp, according to Scripture. We also know he wrote music for the Temple musicians, which may mean he was able to play other instruments as well, but not necessarily.
 
brb3 said:
The Pipe Organ 😃 … to accompany the Davidian Chant. Gave the Gregorians their inspirations.
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I hear that was a secret chord that David played and it pleased the Lord; it goes like this the fourth, the fifth, the minor fall, the major lift

sorry I couldn’t resist.
 
brb3 said:
We all go thru phases in Christian lives. We are all God’s workmanship in process. 3 years ago I was being judged severely for years of apostasy living. God used the Assembly of God’s Hillsong music to cheer me to recovery of lost faith. The lyrics of those songs are very special, the rhythm/beat is so uplifting.

Let us recall that David was a music man, and how his praise music so often helped Saul. God uses praise/worship music to bring many to his Son. Do we ever outgrow praise/worship music ? I hope not. Today, when I make a long trip by car, and get so tired of the stuff on radio … I pop in my Hillsong Music CD’s and soar to the heavens with musical revival. God bless the Pentecostals … we need them all in the Catholic Church to teach us how to preach and sing to our Lord.
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Amen to that.
 
Ignatius said:
Duquesne University? Didn’t they have the vagina monologues and planned parenthood promotions?
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It is unfortunate that today thats some current Catholic college administrations to allow such scandalous things today but the common view is that Duquesne was the birthplace of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal as Cardial Kasper points out in the Post-Gazette article.

Those few original charismatics got together on their own in their own living quarters, on their own time, not as any formal activity of the university, but to pray for that “pouring out of the Spirit of God” in their lives prophesied by OT prophets. Jesus had promised “The Comforter” and He kept that promise at Pentecost as the NT relates, and he kept His promise again there at Duquesne in !967.

THe Charismatic Renewal was a phase in my wife’s and my spiritual lives/journey. When I look back at my experience in my renewal years, the result of those years was learning to worship God from my heart and not just on the intellectual level. iI must hasten to point out that both are necessary. Anything my wife and I did in the renewal we would ask ourselves the question: Is this in keeping with Catholic teaching." We had a distinct advantage in that we had a better knowledge/understanding of the faith that unfortunately many didn’t have. We were the “quiet” charismatics and “too orthodox” to be members of the “core group” but that was okay with us. To my mind it was a “training phase” and so many other experiences 🙂 the Lord in his loving care has led us into so many other things for both our individual and joint spiritual development.

Basically, the renewal brought us even closer to the Church. Today my wife is a Third Order Discalced Carmelite and for the last two years I have been totally involved with the “Christ Renews His Parish” (CRHP) program at our parish.

Keep the Faith…

God Bless…

Bussi
 
NHInsider said:
a harp, according to Scripture. We also know he wrote music for the Temple musicians, which may mean he was able to play other instruments as well, but not necessarily.
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That is quite different from today’s. plus, the Jews are so different in honoring God. today, all we want to do is play music so we can be entertained.
 
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