Learn more about Pope Francis rather than criticize

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Unfortunatly it seems to be a favorite pass time of many. Finding fault somewere with others and the Pope and our bishops are also targets. The part of our canon that states that we are to have obediance is ignored and the section that states that the faithful have a right to critique rules. The much deeper issue are the faithful wanting and protesting that the Holy Mother Church should adapt to them and thier wishes instead of doing as we are called to do, change our ways to conform with the Church. This goes for all fractions of the faithful, just not tradtionalist. They distrust Christ own promise and message that he has sent an advocate, the Holy Spirit to guide us.
So in these complaints they are complaining against God wanting Him to change.
I agree that this goes a number of ways. We should bend our will to the Church not the other way around. Whether we think the Church is too liberal or too conservative, or whatever other adjective someone wants to throw in there. The fact is that the Church is the Church and is guided by the Holy Spirit and led by the successor of St. Peter, and was founded on Jesus Our Lord. We need to respect that!
 
Pope Benedict also gave Holy Communion to non-Catholics, which by any account is far more serious,
Not saying that I doubt you, but can you post up a reliable source for this assertion? Thank you:)
 
Has it ever been declared that the rubric is infallible?
No. However, since when did things need to be infallibly declared for them to be important? If something has been done in an unchanging fashion for a thousand years or more, might that not be an indication that there is a pretty good reason? If the Church took the time to set in place certain actions in the liturgy and to promulgate them in the rubrics associated with the Mass to be implemented world wide, might that not be an indication that the rubrics are important and they ought to be followed?
 
Actually, a strategy to bring people into the flock isn’t so strange. That is how the Gospel was spread. St. Paul and the Apostles did not just wander around the land preaching, they planned their journeys to reach as many people as they could in as many places as they could. They deliberately chose places to go and started churches there. Then they taught others to do the same. They carefully chose and trained people to do this. Reading the Acts of the Apostles and the Epistles of St. Paul, as well as the fact that the Apostles all evangelized different parts of the known world helps clarify this.

We do need a strategy to bring people back. We need to study and p(name removed by moderator)oint those areas where the Church is weakest and re-evangelize them. There are areas in the world where the Church is very strong and active and producing many new priests, vocations, etc. We need to use their abundance to evangelize places where the Church is weakest, perhaps even our own countries. People need educated and trained to bring the Gospel to others–they need to be knowledgeable about Christ, Scripture, the Church and her teachings. We need to appeal to both the mind and the hearts of people, and we need to present the truth. All of this requires planning and careful strategy to be as effective as possible, and actually begins in our own parishes. Of course, the Holy Spirit will be guiding this, we need to pray for His guidance.

So I do not think strategy is so strange a word to use for the New Evangelization, I think it is absolutely necessary to reach as many people as possible. God Bless.🙂
CB Catholic,Mc Call and Brendan,Thanks for answering.I am not quoting you three so as not to make it too long.
I see your point ,Mc Call´s and Brendan´s more clearly now.
I do understand the planning,in fact we as parishes do this kind of pastoral planning.
I slightly differ in the sense that “strategy” as planning or sincere conviction of living the Gospel is one thing,but “startegy” as artificially planned step to deliberately get somebody to do sth else ,has a kind of deceiving connotation which we would not consider acceptable…So this use of the word strategy makes noise to me.As you say,Mc Call,it may be just a question of words.
When we do Pastoral planning,we first pray and try and discern,it always means invitation and share the good news,it is never seen as anything tricky or cohersive(if the “words” are the adequate.
Evangelization is not twisting anybody´s arm. It is the joy of sharing the good news,and we should first acknoledge we are pencils in God´s hands.
Though we may differ slightly,but I understand now your points,so thanks again the three of you for answering.
 
Indeed. It’s a rubric, it can be over-ruled. In fact for many years (under Pope Benedict) bishops have (almost routinely) been granted permission from Rome to by-pass this part of the rubric and allow the washing of the feet of women in their diocese.

People are acting like Pope Francis has broken some divine law, and are conveniently ignoring the fact that Pope Benedict granted a great many bishops permission to enable their priests to ignore this part of the rubric in their dioceses.

Pope Benedict might not have washed women’s feet himself, but he permitted a great many priests to do so all over the globe. Pope Benedict also gave Holy Communion to non-Catholics, which by any account is far more serious,

Popes are allowed to do such things.

I really cannot see why some people seem to get all hot under the collar when Pope Francis does it. Is it because he’s not wearing red shoes while doing so? 😉
👍👍👍
 
I’ve been one of the people who’s been “complaining” about him I suppose, so I’ll try to answer from my perspective at least. For me, it’s two things:

First, my HOPE for him is that he will be like Francis of Assisi, in that he will combine the best of social justice with strong orthodoxy. I think this would be fantasic for the Church as a whole, since it could hopefully help to heal liberal vs. conservative divide we seem to have going on. However, so far, we have only really been able to see the social justice side, and haven’t had the opportunity to see the orthodoxy in action side. Please keep in mind, this is NOT necessarily his fault; as you point out, he’s only been Pope for a couple of weeks, so we can’t go overboard and attack him. But, for those of us waiting for the orthodox shoe to drop, we’re left in a state of limbo (ha, Catholic pun), which is very de-stabilizing and anxious (at least for me).

Second, the above situation is amplified because we don’t have a lot of background info on him. We had John Paul II for so long that everyone knew him well, then we had Benedict who everyone knew well before he even became Pope. Its been a long time since we’ve had to have a “question mark” so to speak. Again, this isn’t his fault, but its there none the less.

In another thread someone asked me if I would have been as concerned if Benedict had washed women’s feet, and the answer is no. I had a lot of background knowledge on him, knew very well his positions on everything, and becasue of that I had great trust in his orthodoxy. So if he did something “questionable” I had a lot of security to fall back on. We don’t have this security with Francis YET. Again, not his fault, but regardless, we don’t have it to fall back on.
 
No. However, since when did things need to be infallibly declared for them to be important? If something has been done in an unchanging fashion for a thousand years or more, might that not be an indication that there is a pretty good reason? If the Church took the time to set in place certain actions in the liturgy and to promulgate them in the rubrics associated with the Mass to be implemented world wide, might that not be an indication that the rubrics are important and they ought to be followed?
Not with the state the church is in. This is just not that important when so many other things need help. Pope Francis was making a gesture out of love to show people that ALL people should love ALL others, as children of God.

I see where you are from. Maybe you can drive to Dallas to speak with some of the most wonderful Jesuits alive (bias, sorry). I know you will feel their spirit and maybe they can help assure you what a wonderful Pope he will be for the church.
 
Not saying that I doubt you, but can you post up a reliable source for this assertion? Thank you:)
Benedict (while he was Cardinal Ratzinger) gave Communion to Brother Roger (a minister of the Swiss Reformed Church) at the funeral of Pope John Paul II. Cardinal Ratzinger would have known exactly who he was.

fministry.com/2012/01/brother-roger-of-taize-apostle-of-unity.html

I’m not saying it was wrong for Cardinal Ratzinger to do this, and Brother Roger was a very good man, but he was a Protestant minister.

John Paul II (who also didn’t wear red shoes) also gave Holy Communion to Tony Blair who was, at the time, an Anglican.

So some people getting all hot under the collar about Pope Francis washing a couple of women’s feet seems like a bit of an over-reaction. I think part of the reason for this is that many of the were** certain** that the next Pope would be an ultra-traditionalist who would move things back towards a more formal, ceremonial, traditional style. Then, low and behold, Pope Francis steps out onto the balcony and says “Buona sera”.
 
I don’t worry if they complain about him. I pay more attention to what they are complaining about. So far I’m tickled pink at what they are complaining about, it means things are going well.

The ol “If you aint takin flak you aint over the target” mindset.
 
I’ve been one of the people who’s been “complaining” about him I suppose, so I’ll try to answer from my perspective at least. For me, it’s two things:

First, my HOPE for him is that he will be like Francis of Assisi, in that he will combine the best of social justice with strong orthodoxy. I think this would be fantasic for the Church as a whole, since it could hopefully help to heal liberal vs. conservative divide we seem to have going on. However, so far, we have only really been able to see the social justice side, and haven’t had the opportunity to see the orthodoxy in action side. Please keep in mind, this is NOT necessarily his fault; as you point out, he’s only been Pope for a couple of weeks, so we can’t go overboard and attack him. But, for those of us waiting for the orthodox shoe to drop, we’re left in a state of limbo (ha, Catholic pun), which is very de-stabilizing and anxious (at least for me).

Second, the above situation is amplified because we don’t have a lot of background info on him. We had John Paul II for so long that everyone knew him well, then we had Benedict who everyone knew well before he even became Pope. Its been a long time since we’ve had to have a “question mark” so to speak. Again, this isn’t his fault, but its there none the less.

In another thread someone asked me if I would have been as concerned if Benedict had washed women’s feet, and the answer is no. I had a lot of background knowledge on him, knew very well his positions on everything, and becasue of that I had great trust in his orthodoxy. So if he did something “questionable” I had a lot of security to fall back on. We don’t have this security with Francis YET. Again, not his fault, but regardless, we don’t have it to fall back on.
This gets to the heart of what I do not understand. Why do we need background knowledge on him? Why do we need to see certain sides of him? Why can we not just trust that he was elected by the College of Cardinals under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and he is going to do the will of God? Remember, there have been several “bad” Popes, yet none has taught false doctrine or attempted to overturn things that are part of the revealed truth of God. The Lord promised us that the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church. He also gave St. Peter, and through succession, Pope Francis the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, so no need for knowledge on him, no need to be anxious, just relax, pray, and watch God do the heavy lifting!
 
You know, it was only about 100 years ago that most Catholics wouldn’t have even known the name of the Pope, let alone know what he looked like or what he was doing. Fast forward to today and we not only know his name, what he looks like and what he is doing, but now we have the audacity to tell him he is not doing his job right! We even give him our oh so worldly advice and opinions on everything from abortion and contraception to liturgical changes! :rolleyes:

I’m sorry, there are days I would like to go back in time when the laity had little to say in Church matters and the Pope, Cardinals and Bishops decided pretty much everything without our “learned” and sage advice. Listening to some of the lay people on these forums complain about the Pope - and darned near everything else concerning the Church - is really tiresome. When did all of these lay people become such experts on Church matters? Did I miss that boat? When did it pull out? I mean, the Church has done pretty well without the advice from CAF members for something like 2000 years, and I think it will last another 2000 years without our (name removed by moderator)ut.

For me it’s all about obedience - period…
 
CB Catholic,Mc Call and Brendan,Thanks for answering.I am not quoting you three so as not to make it too long.
I see your point ,Mc Call´s and Brendan´s more clearly now.
Correction: I should have said Lucky not Brendan ,I confused you guys…
 
Benedict (while he was Cardinal Ratzinger) gave Communion to Brother Roger (a minister of the Swiss Reformed Church) at the funeral of Pope John Paul II. Cardinal Ratzinger would have known exactly who he was.

fministry.com/2012/01/brother-roger-of-taize-apostle-of-unity.html

I’m not saying it was wrong for Cardinal Ratzinger to do this, and Brother Roger was a very good man, but he was a Protestant minister.

John Paul II (who also didn’t wear red shoes) also gave Holy Communion to Tony Blair who was, at the time, an Anglican.

So some people getting all hot under the collar about Pope Francis washing a couple of women’s feet seems like a bit of an over-reaction. I think part of the reason for this is that many of the were** certain** that the next Pope would be an ultra-traditionalist who would move things back towards a more formal, ceremonial, traditional style. Then, low and behold, Pope Francis steps out onto the balcony and says “Buona sera”.
But can we be certain that BXVI recognized him? I can not see the Eucharist in the photo on the link. Also, would not have BXVI given it to him in the mouth, and not on the hand?
 
**
Can. 705 A religious raised to the episcopate remains a member of his institute**

A bishop remains a religious. Therefore, the Bishop of Rome remains a Jesuit. He is released from obedience to his major superior. He is not released from his obligations to his vows and to the charism of his order. Pope Francis does not cease to be a Jesuit, he cannot lay aside Jesuit customs, spirituality, worldview, and other characteristics that make him a Jesuit without good reason.

We can get hung up on whether Pope Francis owes obedience to the Superior General of the Jesuits, which would be a waste of time. We know that a pope is the highest ranking major superior of every religious institute, including his own.

But the part that I’m referring to here is the part from which Canon Law does not dispense, probably because the Code of 1917 tried to do so and it did not work. The Code of 1917 said that a religious elevated to the episcopacy ceased to be a religious. In theory that was fine. He was no longer in vows. In reality, it never worked. You can’t take Ignatius out of the Jesuit, Francis out of the Franciscan, or Dominic out of the Dominican. For this reason, Pope Paul VI change the code to say that a bishop remains a member of his religious institute and Pope John Paul II promulgated it in 1983.

If we do not factor this into who he is, much of what he does, how he does it, what he says and how he teaches his going to leave us confused or annoyed. This is the usual result when you look at a person out of his context.

Pope Francis will never be any less of a Jesuit than I am a Franciscan. Even if I did not owe obedience to my community, legalities are the least important thing here. That dispensation is granted for practical reasons. It frees the bishop to govern without having to submit to a superior who may attempt to abuse his power over the bishop. We understand this and it makes sense.

Now, will Pope Francis remain obedient to Ignatius? Yes. Does he have a moral duty to obey Ignatius? Yes, because the law says that he remains a member of the order that Ignatius founded. Remaining a member is more than just the right to sign SJ after his name or wearing the order’s habit, if they had one. Remaining a member means that you remain a son of the founder, a follower of that school of thought, and maintain an ongoing fraternal relationship with the community. That’s the pope’s side of the equation.

Our side of the equation is that we must understand the Jesuit charism. For example, those who are alarmed because the Holy Father lives in a small suite in a hotel would not be so alarmed if they understood that for a Jesuit, the idea of having more space than he knows what to do with is not something that is common. His immediate reaction is, “What do I do with this much space?”

The folks who are upset because he does not wear the pontifical garments would probably feel more comfortable if they knew that from the time that they enter as aspirants until they make solemn vows 12 years later, Jesuits are trained to blend in with the common man. For this reason, they never had a habit. Instead, they wore whatever the diocesan clergy in the region wears.

People may be less upset over the feet washing, if they understood that the Jesuits are very used to having a dispensation from almost every canon that binds other religious. These dispensations are often granted to individual Jesuits, to houses, provinces or to the entire order, depending on the need. This was an arrangement that Ignatius made with the papacy when the order was erected as a pontifical institute. Also, the Jesuits are exempt religious as individuals and as a community. There are points in law that do not bind them or from which they can easily be excused. For example, the Jesuits are excused from praying the Divine Office in choir, even though the law says that all religious in solemn vows (only) must pray the office in community.

When such a man becomes a pope, the idea of dispensing the with a regulation for what he perceives to be a higher good is not out of the question, because he comes from a culture where they’re always asking for indults and dispensations or are granted them without asking. The Church understands that this is part of the Right of Exemption and when exemptions are requested, the Church easily grants them. A pope has no one to whom he can apply for an exemption. He grants it to himself. Again, the idea of an exemption is not new to him, because he comes from background where exemptions are the norm.

The same is true of his preaching. If one listens very carefully, Pope Francis’ homilies, those which he actually constructs, follow Jesuit pedagoy. We see this a lot when he speaks without a script.

Finally, I have to add that Jesuits, though very well educated, are also very simple men. They live very simply and they are very focused rather than attend to too many things at one time. Their formation is very military. And their daily life is guided by the exercises.

Again, if we take the man out of context, we’re going to be confused. Since most of us are not experts in the Jesuit charism, we’ll be learning by observation, unless we want to read about it.
Thank you for that Post
 
You know, it was only about 100 years ago that most Catholics wouldn’t have even known the name of the Pope, let alone know what he looked like or what he was doing. Fast forward to today and we not only know his name, what he looks like and what he is doing, but now we have the audacity to tell him he is not doing his job right! We even give him our oh so worldly advice and opinions on everything from abortion and contraception to liturgical changes! :rolleyes:

I’m sorry, there are days I would like to go back in time when the laity had little to say in Church matters and the Pope, Cardinals and Bishops decided pretty much everything without our “learned” and sage advice. Listening to some of the lay people on these forums complain about the Pope - and darned near everything else concerning the Church - is really tiresome. When did all of these lay people become such experts on Church matters? Did I miss that boat? When did it pull out? I mean, the Church has done pretty well without the advice from CAF members for something like 2000 years, and I think it will last another 2000 years without our (name removed by moderator)ut.

For me it’s all about obedience - period…
👍
 
I think Br. JR posted the relevant canon somewhere else; while a religious elevated to a bishop is dispensed from the obligation of obeying the superior of his community, he continues to be a member of that community. Moreover he is not released from his vows of poverty, etc. By the time a religious gets to be the Holy Father’s age, expecting him to behave differently from his vows just isn’t going to happen. It’s such an integral part of his personality, and something he’s worked at all his life at perfecting, that it would be very difficult to change that. I attended the Easter Vigil with a bunch of Benedictine monks last night, there was a small reception and collation afterwards. I was talking to my spiritual director, (in his mid-70s) and he understood this clearly when we were discussing Francis, he said “he cannot live any differently than his vow of poverty”.

Some of the monks in this community are in their 80s and 90s BTW. It was an inspiration to watch one monk in particular, who walks with a walker, is 91 and yet managed to stand through all the parts we’re supposed to stand at when people 30 years his junior were having to sit. I’m 54 and was quite tired last night and wanted so badly to sit but every time I saw Br. Anselm standing I couldn’t bring myself to sit. Br. Anselm has been a monk for almost as long as the Holy Father is old (70 years!), but the point is that their way of life is so inseparable from their heart, personality and soul now, it’s too much to expect the Holy Father to just suddenly embrace a regal lifestyle.
The Cistercians here in Atlanta have a monk who is 102 and just lost one who was 100. Brother Luke makes it to morning prayer, Mass and evening prayer every day.

-Tim-
 
Thank you for bring this up. Yesterday I was looking at a program on univision with Jorge ramos with English captions. Jorge had 3 guest on his show that were not catholic Some how I felt why are they giving their opinions, when they do not know our catholic faith.
 
No. However, since when did things need to be infallibly declared for them to be important? If something has been done in an unchanging fashion for a thousand years or more, might that not be an indication that there is a pretty good reason? If the Church took the time to set in place certain actions in the liturgy and to promulgate them in the rubrics associated with the Mass to be implemented world wide, might that not be an indication that the rubrics are important and they ought to be followed?
Many important things were not done for 1000 years and suddenly started being done and many important things which were done for many centuries have stopped after many centuries.

The permanent diaconate is one example. The permanent diaconate was not present in the Church for 1000 years and has only been restore for 50 years or so.

Active religious are another example. Before St. Francis, religious = monasticism.

Even the introduction of Aristotlean philosophy didn’t happen until the tenth century. Aristotlean philosophy was brought out of the arabic cultures and introduced into Christian theology, and it caused great divisions in the Church. Before it’s introduction, theology was monastic, based on mediation of the scriptures, lectio and such.

I’m beginning to see the wisdom of Brother’s belief that history is not taught enough.

-Tim-
 
Quote: You know, it was only about 100 years ago that most Catholics wouldn’t have even known the name of the Pope, let alone know what he looked like or what he was doing. Fast forward to today and we not only know his name, what he looks like and what he is doing, but now we have the audacity to tell him he is not doing his job right! We even give him our oh so worldly advice and opinions on everything from abortion and contraception to liturgical changes!]

Couldn’t agree more. Francis is not a president or a politician. He is Pope. That infallibility claim seems to jar with lots of ‘modern’ Catholics.
 
. Its a difficult thing, because obviously we can’t quantify how much “good” comes from one choice or another and compare.

My point is that for me, my worry is not the foot washing itself, Pope Francis has different ideas on how to best evangelize, and I should try my best to defer to his (admittedly) greater experience and wisdom. My worry is that the foot washing COULD point to women priests down the road, which would be a major problem. If I somehow knew absolutely for sure that this wasn’t going to happen, I wouldn’t have much problem at all with the foot washing.
Mc Call,what if you think Francis is not just making decisions or plannning strategies but discerning?
He comes from religiuos tradition,as thread points out .
Let´s do away with the idea of strategy,if this leads us to tricky things.
How does that sound?
 
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