Learn more about Pope Francis rather than criticize

[surritter]

It is not a rubric of the Mass. It is optional as to whether or not it even occurs.

Yes, the rite of washing feet is optional, but when it is does it is to be only men’s feet (according to previous Vatican directives). So the fact that it’s not a required “rubric” is not the point.

Furthermore, the Pope cannot “violate” a rubric - he is the one who makes the rubrics. He is not bound by them; he binds others.

The pope is just as much a servant of the Church as everyone else; no one is allowed to change the Mass on the fly! In fact, a sign of humility is when a priest sticks to the book without improvisation.

Now this is not meant to criticize Pope Francis on the specific topic of washing feet, especially since it’s not a central part of the Holy Thursday Mass. But I felt obligated to comment on the statement that the pope “is not bound by the rubrics”!

 

[Brendan_64]

You realize that communion in the hand is only aloud by special permission to certain episcopal conferences?

Yes. And you do realise that in practical terms all an episcopal conference has to do is to ask for permission and it will be granted?

The notion that Benedict would refuse to give Communion in the hand is just ridiculous.

I really do think some traditionalists try to set Pope Benedict up as something he was not, i.e. as some sort of uber-traditionalist wanting to turn the clock back to pre-Vatican II. Which of course he wasn’t.

 

[jwinch2]

It is not a rubric of the Mass. It is optional as to whether or not it even occurs.

Furthermore, the Pope cannot “violate” a rubric - he is the one who makes the rubrics. He is not bound by them; he binds others.

As to the teachings - you are making the assumption that whatever have been taught about the foot washing (as to its meaning) has exhausted all possible meaning; but there is no basis for that assumption other than the fact that "no one ever taught anything else, as if that proves that there was nothing more to teach.

Brother JR has explained the fact that there is more than one way to look at the foot washing; you would do well to read the other threads where he has explained this.

I’ve read the threads thank you and no, I am not making any assumptions about what has or has not been exhausted regarding the ritual of foot washing. I prefer to look at what previous popes have stated, and then ask whether or not what is happening now is in continuity with that. In addition, yes, the pope can violate the rubrics of the Mass, as we just saw last Thursday. If popes wish to change the Mass, what has been done in the past is that they issue a statement or declaration to that affect, explaining why and what it means PRIOR to celebrating the Mass in this way.

And don’t even try to tell me that this will not be taken as some as a push for women’s ordination, because it is already happening. thetimes.co.uk/tto/faith/article3726461.ece

 

[Brendan]

The notion that Benedict would refuse to give Communion in the hand is just ridiculous. .

Benedict DID issue such directives for Papal Masses. He offered Holy Communion COTT only. This was a continuation of the practice established by Pope John Paul II. +Francis has elected to continue this practice.

The factor that inspired +JPII to establish the practice of COTT only was that he was informed that some recipients (abiet a very small minority) elected to receive on the hand and then retain the Blessed Sacrament as some sort of memento.

That is when +JPII instituted the practice of COTT only for those who receive from him.

And, as I mentioned, that practice has continued.

 

[clem456]

I would like to share something with you all.I am reading each post.
By the end of the 20th century,only a quarter of the children in the world were at school. according to UNICEF.
I understand there is beauty in symbols,beauty in rich voacbulary,beauty in colours ,beauty in books… But there are millions of brothers and sisters who can only read through what they see and hear.Many live in the streets as little adults,many in “villas”,“fabellas”,I think you call them “slums”. we all know this.
When communicating with these brothers in particular,language (and body language) needs to be simple,direct,easy,loving,unconcealing,transparent. .
cause they are wounded of being deceived,tricked,used, abused,forgotten,rejected .and they are keen at reading way beyond any of us ,other sort of things or intentions.
Bergoglio at that time,as most of priests, spent much time with them.
Let us bear in mind,that Francis knows and speaks this simple loving language better than Italian,and Spanish,and these kids who will never post in a forum or write an article,the voiceless,are in his heart and his audience.Thanks be to God.
God bless

 

[Brendan]

The pope is just as much a servant of the Church as everyone else; no one is allowed to change the Mass on the fly! In fact, a sign of humility is when a priest sticks to the book without improvisation.

Now this is not meant to criticize Pope Francis on the specific topic of washing feet, especially since it’s not a central part of the Holy Thursday Mass. But I felt obligated to comment on the statement that the pope “is not bound by the rubrics”!

In this regard, otjm is correct. The Pope is really is not bound by either Canon Law nor the rubrics of the Mass. The Pope IS bound by the Sacramental Law ( the cannot attempt to consecrate Oreos and Pepsi), but he can alter or ignore the rubrics literally at will.

That said. Canonist Dr. Ed Peters has some pretty good insights on the issue

canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2013/03/28/popes-like-dads-dont-have-a-choice-in-the-matter/

canonlawblog.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/some-thoughts-on-the-vpo-statement-regarding-the-mandadtum-rite-controversy/

( Dr. Peter’s teaches Canon Law at our local seminary and is also a Counselor to the Roman Rota)

 

[surritter]

In this regard, otjm is correct. The Pope is really not bound by either Canon Law nor the rubrics of the Mass. The Pope IS bound by the Sacramental Law ( the cannot attempt to consecrate Oreos and Pepsi), but he can alter or ignore the rubrics literally at will.

Good point. Let me rephrase it this way, then. A pope is not absolutely bound by the rubrics in the sense that he is the ultimate judge on those things. But to deviate from the rubrics on the fly in such a manner might not, to this humble observer, be the best practice since it could be seen as similar license for local priests – who ARE absolutely bound by the rules – to perform the same deviations.
It’s sad to witness the liturgical aberrations that we’ve all seen, and disobedient priests certainly don’t need any more ammo to justify things that they have no right to do.

So the pope does have that right in a strict sense. That said, I’ll agree with Dr. Peters that the best solution might be to move the foot-washing ceremony to the Chrism Mass, where it would be more in line with the sacerdotal nature which is such an important focus of that Mass.

 

[JHow]

I blame the media for the confusion here, and I appreciate Brother JR’s analysis. The media have a thirst for novelty, not insight. Look how it was only after his election that we learned that archbishop Bergoglio was a runner-up previously, a useful an interesting fact not reported on. You really have to consider the source.

 

[devoutchristian]

Yes. And you do realise that in practical terms all an episcopal conference has to do is to ask for permission and it will be granted?

The notion that Benedict would refuse to give Communion in the hand is just ridiculous.

Yes I realize that all an episcopal conference must do is ask, however to my knowledge the Italian bishops do not permit CITH and their decision to allow communion while standing does not have force in the Vatican itself. Why some people think that Benedict XVI was some sort of liturgical liberal is beyond me.

 

[Thomas_Casey]

MODERATOR NOTICE

Please read here If you’re passing judgment on the Holy Father or accusing him of anything, you will be penalized. CAF is not a tribunal in which we pass judgment on anyone.

 

[simple_soul]

I blame the media for the confusion here, and I appreciate Brother JR’s analysis. The media have a thirst for novelty, not insight. Look how it was only after his election that we learned that archbishop Bergoglio was a runner-up previously, a useful an interesting fact not reported on. You really have to consider the source.

I don’t know that I would blame the media as much as I would blame those who try to exploit the medias ignorance and thirst for novelties by using it as a tool to shove around and throw into people’s faces why the Pope is wrong in making the decisions and choices he is making. To me it is they who cause the chaos and confusion more than the media does because instead of trying to correct and clarify the media and what it is getting wrong, like Br. Jay, a few others and CAF does, they actually add fuel to the medias fire by openly and underhandedly attacking the Pope. The prayer of Jesus keeps ringing in my ears these days; “Father! Forgive them for they know not what they do!” because it is they who are tearing the church apart more than the media. Maybe I can just excuse ignorance and a thirst for novelties better than I can excuse belligerence. Right now all I can hear is Jesus saying; “These foolish games are tearing me apart. Your thoughtless words are breaking my heart.” I keep trying asking myself what it is that is making people act like this and I believe it is fear. I so hope and pray we learn to Learn and Trust in Jesus and who He is speaking and acting through for us to learn from and start learning instead of giving into the fear of opening ourselves up to the idea that maybe we do not know and understand everything like we should and that some how some one, like maybe the Pope, is trying to teach us something about our faith instead of assuming he is just doing what we might construe as not being prudent, as a lack of good judgement on his part. Hope and pray this made some sense. Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God! Have mercy on us sinners. Sweetest Jesus, I trust in You!

 

[graciew]

I was unaware of much of the sensitivity there is.But now I see.What is an everyday concern for some,may not be so for others,and it´s ok. It was not my intention to hurt anybody,if I did,I apologize.I do not know that much about anything after all,so I may very well listen and learn.Lesson learnt,another one…
God bless you…

 

[Brendan_64]

But to deviate from the rubrics on the fly in such a manner might not, to this humble observer, be the best practice since it could be seen as similar license for local priests – who ARE absolutely bound by the rules – to perform the same deviations.

Bishops can and do ask for permission from Rome to be able to allow the washing of women’s feet in their diocese, and Rome (seemingly routinely) grants this permission. Dioceses ARE allowed to deviate from this rule if their bishop gets permission from Rome on this. This has been happening for many years (under Pope Benedict).

All Pope Francis did was to do what Pope Benedict had been allowing priests to do for years. If a pope can grant permission for bishops to allow their priests to do so, then where is the conflict in a pope doing the same thing himself?

People are acting as if this is a practice that is not permitted, when the fact is that Rome has been permitting for this to happen for years. It’s a bit like receiving Communion in the hand, all the bishops have to do is ask for permission and it’s granted.

 

[surritter]

Bishops can and do ask for permission from Rome to be able to allow the washing of women’s feet in their diocese, and Rome (seemingly routinely) grants this permission.

I wonder if you are confusing this with the indults given about receiving Communion in the hand – that is something where permission is routinely given.

Obviously, Pope Francis can do as he wishes on these matters, as established above, but the Vatican directives prior to this year were pretty clear about the washing of feet, if I recall.

Do you have a source for the permission about washing of the feet?

 

[Lucky7]

It would be nice also, if you would go to the Vatican web site, they have a news link on Vatican news on there.
Then you could get your questions answered instead of just listening to what the media, or one another is saying about him.
They have already explained so many things that people on here complain about, no he is not changing anything to do with the Priesthood, one of the women was Catholic and one was Muslim, to leave her out would have been unkind and not the mission of the Church, there were 10 young males and 2 young females whose feet he washed.
They had written to him and asked that he come there to pray the Mass for them. Their letters were very touching and I saw that he is a very loving, Christ-like man by going to them.
www.vatican.va
and for the news link
news.va/en

Allhers, or anyone else reading this at this point, could you point to exactly where I can find this information on the vatican website? Both links are not getting me to a specific place (I don’t think).

 

[allhers]

Allhers, or anyone else reading this at this point, could you point to exactly where I can find this information on the vatican website? Both links are not getting me to a specific place (I don’t think).

No, I’m sorry, it was a few days ago and I don’t remember exactly where I was at the time (on the Vatican web news site.) Sometimes I click on a specific article and then go on to another link from there.
I also read news on EWTN’s web site and Zenit, they are both faithful to the Catholic Church also.
Sometimes I am reading articles on the home page of this site, at www.catholic.com
But I know I was on the Vatican news web site when I read of that particular article, I don’t know how long they stay on there. You would just have to search for them.

Here Is one from EWTN:
ewtnnews.com/catholic-news/Vatican.php?id=7353

Here is one from the Vatican:
news.va/en/news/pope-mass-of-our-lords-supper-full-text

Here is one from Zenit:
,That the Holy Father, Francis, washed the feet of young men and women on his first Holy Thursday as Pope, should call our minds and hearts to the simple and spontaneous gesture of love, affection, forgiveness and mercy of the Bishop of Rome, more than to legalistic, liturgical or canonical discussions.
zenit.org/en/articles/vatican-spokesman-on-participation-of-2-women-in-foot-washing-ceremony

zenit.org/en

Happy Hunting

 

[Megan7]

I’ve read the threads thank you and no, I am not making any assumptions about what has or has not been exhausted regarding the ritual of foot washing. I prefer to look at what previous popes have stated, and then ask whether or not what is happening now is in continuity with that. In addition, yes, the pope can violate the rubrics of the Mass, as we just saw last Thursday. If popes wish to change the Mass, what has been done in the past is that they issue a statement or declaration to that affect, explaining why and what it means PRIOR to celebrating the Mass in this way.

And don’t even try to tell me that this will not be taken as some as a push for women’s ordination, because it is already happening. thetimes.co.uk/tto/faith/article3726461.ece

JW, thanks for the link, but I cannot see the entire article, do you have it,
could you please send it to me via PM? Thanks

By the way, when the same was done when he was a Cardinal, Bishop, Priest in Argentina (there are several pictures of him doing the same for years) was it OK
according to the rubrics to do so, or not?

I am sooo confused by all of this :crying:
Please keep me in your prayers.
I mean no disrespect to the Holy Father, I am praying for him & his intentions.
I am not judging anyone here. God bless you all.
Pax

 

[allhers]

JW, thanks for the link, but I cannot see the entire article, do you have it,
could you please send it to me via PM? Thanks

By the way, when the same was done when he was a Cardinal, Bishop, Priest in Argentina (there are several pictures of him doing the same for years) was it OK
according to the rubrics to do so, or not?
I am sooo confused by all of this :crying:
Please keep me in your prayers.
I mean no disrespect to the Holy Father, I am praying for him & his intentions.
Pax

Please see my above post with links to EWTN, the Vatican and Zenit to explain. Our Holy Father is awesome!

 

[Megan7]

Please see my above post with links to EWTN, the Vatican and Zenit to explain. Our Holy Father is awesome!

Thank you, I will check it out.
Does it address if its OK to do as a Priest?

God bless you.

 

[allhers]

Thank you, I will check it out.
Does it address if its OK to do as a Priest?

God bless you.

The one on Zenit said this:
…That the Holy Father, Francis, washed the feet of young men and women on his first Holy Thursday as Pope, should call our minds and hearts to the simple and spontaneous gesture of love, affection, forgiveness and mercy of the Bishop of Rome, more than to legalistic, liturgical or canonical discussions.

You’ll have to read the others, sorry, I wasn’t concerned about that when I read them and don’t remember.