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choliks
Guest
I really do hope you’re not mocking the Pope by comparing him to the Constanza character.
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gentle_atheist
Guest
Huh, I never thought of that. Sorry if anyone took offense.
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Eufrosnia
Guest
Haha, well I mean you have a bit of a point.
I would say sometimes the Pope might not immediately realize the necessity for a guardsman to stand (to be alert and ready to spring in to action) since obviously the Pope is not someone with a security or military background.
After all, the Pope is infallible in faith and morals. Not in logistics or security management. I say give him sometime and he will get the hang of things.
From our perspective, the fact that he even cared to get the guard a chair shows that he likes to think in a humane way though at times the gesture maybe inappropriate or reduce the effectiveness of the other person in fulfilling his duty. Even in the Seinfeld episode, as bad as George is in other episodes, he had his heart right in this one. He just didn’t think things through. But unlike in the Seinfeld case where the risk was to the store, the Pope is simply risking his own life here. So we can’t really say he pulled a George
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GraceMercy
Guest
Pope Frances our Holy Father
thank you and I pray for you
thank you for being the good shepard our church needs.
thank you and I pray for you
thank you for being the good shepard our church needs.
J
Jaysuitical
Guest
Is the “Pope is risking his life” supposed to be part of the joke of comparing him to Costanza? I doubt that if the Swiss Guard takes a bit of a break, the Holy Father is really in danger of a mysterious commando unit suddenly transporting into the Domus Sanctae Marthe to assassinate or abduct him . . . Tho’ Robert Ludlum did publish a novel 31 years ago about a ‘Pope Francesco I’, “the most beloeved pope since John XXIII”, who is kidnapped & held for ransom . . .Haha, well I mean you have a bit of a point.
I would say sometimes the Pope might not immediately realize the necessity for a guardsman to stand (to be alert and ready to spring in to action) since obviously the Pope is not someone with a security or military background.
After all, the Pope is infallible in faith and morals. Not in logistics or security management. I say give him sometime and he will get the hang of things.
From our perspective, the fact that he even cared to get the guard a chair shows that he likes to think in a humane way though at times the gesture maybe inappropriate or reduce the effectiveness of the other person in fulfilling his duty. Even in the Seinfeld episode, as bad as George is in other episodes, he had his heart right in this one. He just didn’t think things through. But unlike in the Seinfeld case where the risk was to the store, the Pope is simply risking his own life here. So we can’t really say he pulled a George
J
JReducation
Guest
I think people are making more of this whole deal with the Swiss Guard than is necessary.
First:
It’s none of our business. We seem to be turning into a forum for “Papal Monitors”. That’s ridiculous. Popes don’t need and don’t care for our opinions. We expend energy and lose sleep over things that we will never be able to tell the pope and if we were able to tell him, he would politely blow off. Why even bother having these discussions?
Second:
Has anyone here read a book called, The Pope and the CEO? It is written by a former Swiss Guard assigned to cover Bl. John Paul II. It seems that what Pope Francis did has been done many times before. In the book the author, now a CEO, who was then a Swiss Guard in his early 20s, tells us how Pope John Paul also gave him a chair to sit at night, because he didn’t think it was fair for him to sleep while the guard stood. He also felt that it was a silly custom, since the Vatican has a very solid police department that guards every entrance and exit.
When Bl. John Paul could not sleep, he would step outside and spend the night chatting with the guard. The guard claims that he
a) Learned his faith from Bl. John Paul. Up to that point, he was a typical Sunday Catholic.
b) Learned to be a Catholic CEO from Bl. John Paul.
In another book, the autobiography of Bl. John XXIII, Bl. John tells of how he objected that there were Swiss Guards appointed to watch over him while he dined. He started to get them to sit down and dine with him. Eventually, the dining room detail was abolished, because the pope would not stand for a guard watching him eat when the guard should also be enjoying a dinner.
There are stories told by the guards that Bl. John Paul would lend them his private telephone line to call home on special occasions. Bl. John Paul had a habit of asking the guards about their families, their birthdays and other details about their lives. Whenever he saw that a guard was homesick on a special day, such as Christmas, he would invite the guard into his apartment and order him to call home and greet his family.
Ven. Pius XII was known to have told the guards that if ever the Vatican was raided during WWII, they were not to fight, because he did not want any of them to get hurt. They were to lay down the arms. This is also in the book, The Pope and the CEO.
It seems to me that people out here have a very different idea of the Swiss Guards from that of the popes. Maybe, we should leave the Sovereign of Vatican City State make his own decisions and learn from them.
This poor man is being scrutinized for things that are silly and unnecessary. Also things that are not unique to him. I just read somewhere else where some people are in an uproar because the pope said that he would not like to have a pair of red shoes. Someone actually went as far as saying that the pope should learn to obey. Obey who? Obey what?
We need to be careful that we do not become “Popal Monitors”.
First:
It’s none of our business. We seem to be turning into a forum for “Papal Monitors”. That’s ridiculous. Popes don’t need and don’t care for our opinions. We expend energy and lose sleep over things that we will never be able to tell the pope and if we were able to tell him, he would politely blow off. Why even bother having these discussions?
Second:
Has anyone here read a book called, The Pope and the CEO? It is written by a former Swiss Guard assigned to cover Bl. John Paul II. It seems that what Pope Francis did has been done many times before. In the book the author, now a CEO, who was then a Swiss Guard in his early 20s, tells us how Pope John Paul also gave him a chair to sit at night, because he didn’t think it was fair for him to sleep while the guard stood. He also felt that it was a silly custom, since the Vatican has a very solid police department that guards every entrance and exit.
When Bl. John Paul could not sleep, he would step outside and spend the night chatting with the guard. The guard claims that he
a) Learned his faith from Bl. John Paul. Up to that point, he was a typical Sunday Catholic.
b) Learned to be a Catholic CEO from Bl. John Paul.
In another book, the autobiography of Bl. John XXIII, Bl. John tells of how he objected that there were Swiss Guards appointed to watch over him while he dined. He started to get them to sit down and dine with him. Eventually, the dining room detail was abolished, because the pope would not stand for a guard watching him eat when the guard should also be enjoying a dinner.
There are stories told by the guards that Bl. John Paul would lend them his private telephone line to call home on special occasions. Bl. John Paul had a habit of asking the guards about their families, their birthdays and other details about their lives. Whenever he saw that a guard was homesick on a special day, such as Christmas, he would invite the guard into his apartment and order him to call home and greet his family.
Ven. Pius XII was known to have told the guards that if ever the Vatican was raided during WWII, they were not to fight, because he did not want any of them to get hurt. They were to lay down the arms. This is also in the book, The Pope and the CEO.
It seems to me that people out here have a very different idea of the Swiss Guards from that of the popes. Maybe, we should leave the Sovereign of Vatican City State make his own decisions and learn from them.
This poor man is being scrutinized for things that are silly and unnecessary. Also things that are not unique to him. I just read somewhere else where some people are in an uproar because the pope said that he would not like to have a pair of red shoes. Someone actually went as far as saying that the pope should learn to obey. Obey who? Obey what?
We need to be careful that we do not become “Popal Monitors”.
L
Lucky7
Guest
I tend to agree with your assessment; however, I’m focusing on the above comment because I think it’s the crux of the issue. With this new Pope, it seems as if the media is looking for any and every move that he makes that makes him seem different than the previous popes. Their focus is …see how wonderful he is…so simple, so humble…so different…he will be different…he will understand our concerns and change things…yada yada yada.
Do we ever see mainstream media reports on any homilies that touch on areas that might give a different view of him…like his homily about having to follow Christ for salvation vs psychics, etc? Or the homily about how we can not water down the Faith? Of course not. That’s not the pope they want to know.
For now, the media reports are positive … we’re in the honeymoon stage… that will change.
R
Rich_C
Guest
I agree with Bro. JR here.
I don’t pay any attention to the Holy Father unless he’s addressing “me” through a year of faith or a big announcement of some kind. I just pray for him on my daily rosary. His holiness is there to make big decisions when they need to be made. The rest of the time, I have my catechism to teach me what I need to know. If he wants my attention, he’ll get it.
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surritter
Guest
I agree too. The question is, though, why is a situation like the Swiss Guard’s sandwich being publicized so much? When the press steps all over itself to proclaim how humble the new pope is, it makes me wonder if there are other reasons.
Each pope of my memory has been humble, perhaps in different ways.
T
TheRealJuliane
Guest
Does this not point to his Franciscan outlook?
Always hospitality.
I don’t know if it’s true or not, but it’s a very sweet and loving story nonetheless, and he seems like a man who would do that.
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Sirach2
Guest
This bears repeating. It has been nearly 40 years, but your words brought back a painful remembrance of a priest teaching a class in my parish. His manner was to ask us a question, and after everyone answered to the best of our knowledge, he would flat out use your bolded words. I quit the class and did not finish, and yes, it does intimidate the student, making him feel ignorant and insulted. When he asked me why I quit coming, I explained that his manner of teaching was offensive, but he insisted that his method was correct.
May all of us take good care to treat “underlings” with respect and dignity in our choice of words/phrases/corrections.
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Eufrosnia
Guest
I think the original poster was simply pointing out how the Pope’s well intentioned actions could be detrimental to the other person in doing his duty. That was the comparison between Costanza and the Pope and to be fair to him, he has a point.
If the Pope feels that he is not in any danger as you presume, I think the proper thing would be to get rid of the guard altogether. Since he does keep it, we must assume that a threat is presumed. After all, JP II did get shot.
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hudson
Guest
Is the media following the Pope around 24 hours a day to tell us everything humble he does? Is this the reason there is no media available to cover the Gosnell trial? Seems to me the media has its priorities out of whack.
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TheRealJuliane
Guest
The media does not want people to know the gruesome reality of abortion. I’m sure many of them are in denial themselves, and the ones who aren’t in denial are evil enough to go on supporting the choice to murder children.
The horror of this is that Gosnell is not the only practitioner operating in this manner. He’s just the one we know about right now.
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Lormar
Guest
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Eufrosnia
Guest
Not to undermine your response (I agree 100% with the "lets not become Papal monitors) but to perhaps show you the side of those who complain, I thought I will write this.
These actions around the guards etc by the Pope are certainly not a problem in the sense of morality. But perhaps people are worried because the actions are a bit unwise in terms of helping them do their duty. Perhaps that causes a bit of concern that the Pope might be a person who thinks primarily with the heart and forget to balance it with reason.
We in the West have a bitter experience of those who push it so far that they think with the heart and forget reason entirely. By the heart, I do not mean some supernatural sense but simply what tugs at our heart strings. We face a situation where some of the most disordered actions such as gay marriage or abortion are promoted in the name of thinking from the heart and undermining reason. We even look back at saints or popes in the past that were balancing their feelings with reason and try to hide them from faithful. We do not like to even mention anything in the negative anymore for fear of hurting the feelings. Its also not a secret that we even reduced some great saints such as St. Francis to the level of a modern liberal hippy when he was nothing of the sort. All of this suggest that the world is in a crisis where everyone has started to think with their heart without using much reason.
In this same way, perhaps the faithful are weary that the Pope is encouraging this sort of thinking in an implicit way. Does the Pope stand against issues such as gay marriage? He certainly does. But when he encourages the thinking from the heart over reason, then it becomes natural for others to do the same as well and perhaps easily commit to an incorrect moral position. So in a way, perhaps people are hoping that the Pope will be more rigorous so that the faithful are given an example to be more rigorous on their faith rather than follow ones “heart”.
I think this concern is valid. One solution is for the Pope to be more careful. But I feel that this is probably not going to happen and not even reasonable for us faithful to expect it. The other solution is for us to ignore these specific things by the Pope, not give much credence to such reports,** discourage speaking about these sort of things and instead emphasize listening to what he teaches. **
There is too much emphasis today on trying to decipher a person’s teaching, whether it be Jesus or the Pope through his actions. We have to perhaps show our society that this is the wrong way about. We take the teachings and not necessarily try to imitate everything he does.
C
clem456
Guest
Another great homily from Pope Francis:
bolded is meaningful to me
news.va/en/news/pope-francis-st-pauls-homily-full-text
excerpted…
bolded is meaningful to me
news.va/en/news/pope-francis-st-pauls-homily-full-text
excerpted…
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Eufrosnia
Guest
Great post but you should also not forget to bold
“Those who listen to us and observe us must be able to see in our actions what they hear from our lips, and so give glory to God!”
Because the things you have bolded seem to suggest that you would rather see giving witness as a primarily living according to the commandments without actually proclaiming or sharing the message of Christ using words. I think this is a dangerous idea.
Actions are always ambiguous and one does not even need to have good intentions to necessarily do good. So unless you proclaim the truth you hold, one cannot really know why anyone is doing anything.
So I think it is important to take the Holy Father’s message as the importance of having both the proclamation of the message through words and consistency with what is proclaimed. In other words, the Holy Father is warning against being a hypocrite. He is not saying to substitute proclaiming using words.
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simple_soul
Guest
Clem,
Thank you so much for posting these words from our Holy Father. Coming from one who struggles to make love of neighbor as myself shine through my actions verses just talking about how I should they have hit home with me. It is something I have been working on and reading how the Holy Father is telling me to act not just talk about acting and how acting is the only thing that gives what I am talking about meaning or in his words tangible offers me great encouragement to keep trying.
God Bless
M
McCall1981
Guest
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