Learn to argue, learn to say NO?!

[Lee_Aaronaldo]

Dear brothers and sisters in Christ, happy blessed Sunday!

I don’t know how to start with actually. Besides, I don’t know whether this is the right platform for me but I am pretty sure my conscience tells me YES. I know you guys can give great piece of advice. I hope this thread will suit with this ‘room’ of philosophy.

A best friend of mine recently said to me that I don’t know how to argue. Due to that, he perceives me as a loser. He said that I will get bullied easily if I don’t know how to argue, don’t know how to say NO. Then he encourages me always keep thinking. You guys always think? At that time, I just listen to him. I listen attentively. He shared to me that he is always think. He always questing thing. For example, why the clouds is in blue colour? Why this? Why that?,yada, yada,yada. One funny analogy he said to me is your mouth is small yet you can eat a lot. I was questioning at that time,‘Did he learn science?’ How come he relates small mouth with human appetite? Sometimes the facts that he shared I cannot believe, but I just nod my head and agreed. I just don’t want to argue because I knew he is kind of person cannot take criticism positively. He afraid to lose.

Deep in my heart,I told myself,‘I know how to argue!’ But argument needs something solid and valid, not the matter to show to people you know everything and you are the person keep thinking.Sometimes not because I don’t want to think. It happens my mind just in blank state and in peace. I am content. I just kinda feel irritating that having known him for about 4 years, he said that I am the person that don’t know how to argue and never think. Sometimes I dare not to argue simply I want to tolerate and to sustain this great friendship.But one thing I learn is always keep thinking! He asked me,‘Do you always think?’ That time I just listened but I really want to tell him. ‘Each and everyone think and perceive something differently. Human brains need rest!’

What are you guys opinion? Have you encountered this problem like mine before?

 

[brandymmiller]

A best friend of mine recently said to me that I don’t know how to argue. Due to that, he perceives me as a loser. He said that I will get bullied easily if I don’t know how to argue, don’t know how to say NO. ?

Just based off of the story you have told us you already are being bullied by your friend. In a sense, he is correct. You do need to learn to express yourself. Look at all of the times when you have allowed his opinion to reign supreme without challenging it even when you thought he was wrong. However, I do think that some people are “Why?” people - we need answers and aren’t satisfied until we find them - and other people are not. “Why?” people are needed - but so are the other kind in life.

 

[AndrewJaffery]

Well, I may of not have had the same problem you’ve had.

See, at school, I’m in what’s called Debate Club. We meet weekly, and train our skills of debate. One of the things that you must think of is…What of the other side? I don’t think you can truly ‘argue’ unless you can agruge the other side too. At command, on ANY issue. I once got into a situation where, in a debate, I had to argue that the sky isn’t blue…and I tied quite well.

I even found myself debating, in favor, of religion o.o …or, at least, defending it with the few facts I have about it, against a very cute, redheaded, and very strongly atheist girl, but she could not understand the other side that I could at least get, and defend.

There is a difference with arguing, and yelling at each other their own points. You have to understand where the other side is coming from, and try to accept their answers, maybe not as fact, but understand why people think this.

Maybe, with your friend, when you ‘argue’, and you get a topic that comes up, think of three points for and against it. And, for the always think thing…just analyze what he says…and even if you don’t agree with it, try to learn from it anyways.

Yes, sorry for rambling, and not really having a point…and I probably contradicted myself at many times…proves that I’m not a good debater at all!

But, if you have any questions what I said, or would liek clarification, please ask…

 

[James_S_Saint]

Arguing is the worst way to learn to think. That should be obvious if you observe the Internet much.

The best way to learn to think is to get involved in something that requires thinking but is rewarding without being hostile. Your friend seems to think that being hostile is the answer to learning how to think - very Nietzschian.

Solving puzzles that relate to real life is the way to go. Those puzzles could be something as simple as building something out of wood or as complex as making money or learning how to foresee relationship problems and how to divert them, creating harmony where there was no hope.

Pit yourself against the physical world rather than against the social world if you can. The social world will overcome you regardless of any thinking and most certainly if you just argue. Arguing never wins the social game. It instead leads to a trap of not being able to get along with anyone. And it spreads like a disease.

It is having faith that you can accomplish that carries you through the day. That is obtained by you doing small things that require thought and then doing them even better next time, always increasing, always thinking about how to do them a little better, trying to perfect what you do. That will require thinking and study. Make the challenge against reality, not people. Reality will forgive you far more than most people.

It is a slower path that your friend would find boring for a long while, but in the long run, you end up being able to accomplish a great deal while he is still “arguing” and not really getting anywhere.

Arguing does NOT help you think. It helps you learn how to manipulate, lie, disguise, and betray. You end up only getting respect from others who themselves get no respect. You are still on the bottom.

Choose your friends from those who can help you be stable and from whom you can learn. THINK about that.

 

[Nine_Two]

Argumentation and thinking are two very different things.

What it sounds like your friend is demanding of you is that you question everything - which again is a whole other thing entirely.

However most people don’t know how to argue, and questioning why the sky is a certain colour isn’t going to help. I think what your friend is trying to get at is that he thinks you should be more assertive.

 

[James_S_Saint]

Actually, when it comes to people, the thing to think about is how to clean your own teeth really professionally, because as an aged and very experienced thinker and arguer, I can guarantee that your smile will gain you a hell of a lot more than any argument you come up with.

I can start or stop an argument in a heart beat or keep one going for years. But I only make a friend when I smile and without friends, no argument will console you when you need it the most.

 

[Lee_Aaronaldo]

Brandymmiler, thanks for your opinion. I am greatly impressed with you that through the simple story that I shared, you managed to know that I was being bullied. I tell you not. Somehow I just try to tolerate with him. Perhaps I need to be more assertive.

AndrewJaffery, you are not rambling! Luckily, we were not yelling at each other. He was just like what Brandymmiler said, ‘trying to let his opinion reign supremely’, and I was just listening as if I was surrendering with whatever he said. Upon listening, I did analyze what he said, and some of the points just not right!

James S Saint, thanks and I would say you are brilliant! I like your first phrase, ‘Arguing is the worst way to learn to think. That should be obvious if you observe the Internet much.’ My question here is how did you know he might observe the internet much? I ask you this because during the conversation, he did tell me that ‘if you don’t know something, just find out on YOUTUBE!’ Again he added on, ‘Now I knew how black source comes from white source during the process.’ I agreed with you he was trying to manipulate. Maybe he was pressure with his studies!

Nine Two, thanks for your opinion. By the way, why you said that ‘ questioning why the sky is a certain colour isn’t going to help.’ Don’t you think there is answer for it? My friend added that, ‘There is no stupid question in this world, only there is either good or stupid answer.’ How to defend then?

Once again, I am impressed how you guys could give ‘philosophical’ opinion in a very short time. It means that I am in the right platform. Kudos!

 

[geometer]

Once again, I am impressed how you guys could give ‘philosophical’ opinion in a very short time. It means that I am in the right platform. Kudos!

You are probably giving your friend something that he needs, which is your ability to listen. When you said that your friend recommends YouTube as a learning resource, here he has got a bad connection. Most of what is on YouTube is highly entertaining, but it is a very low quality learning resource.

There is a resource that your friend might access which would be a step up. Tell him to explore wikipedia.org to check up on what is being argued on YouTube. Wikipedia is a nice first step in investigation, because people that assemble the resource tend to be aware of what is on the internet. Many times they provide links to further research which may lead to university level resources, etc…

MIT, and Stanford are making full one hour videos of courses available on YouTube. This is nice but it is difficult study.

 

[Lee_Aaronaldo]

You are probably giving your friend something that he needs, which is your ability to listen. When you said that your friend recommends YouTube as a learning resource, here he has got a bad connection. Most of what is on YouTube is highly entertaining, but it is a very low quality learning resource.

There is a resource that your friend might access which would be a step up. Tell him to explore wikipedia.org to check up on what is being argued on YouTube. Wikipedia is a nice first step in investigation, because people that assemble the resource tend to be aware of what is on the internet. Many times they provide links to further research which may lead to university level resources, etc…

MIT, and Stanford are making full one hour videos of courses available on YouTube. This is nice but it is difficult study.

Geometer, thanks for pouring out your thoughts here I could not agree more when you said that ‘Youtube is highly entertaining, but it is a very low quality learning resources.’ Can you link to me article evident that support your statement? I just want to do extra mile of reading.

In between what course that MIT and Stanford offer for such a long hour video? Why is it difficult to study?

 

[geometer]

Geometer, thanks for pouring out your thoughts here I could not agree more when you said that ‘Youtube is highly entertaining, but it is a very low quality learning resources.’ Can you link to me article evident that support your statement? I just want to do extra mile of reading.

In between what course that MIT and Stanford offer for such a long hour video? Why is it difficult to study?

Cosmology at Stanford

This video really takes some time. It is one hour and 43 minutes, and it is just the first in a long sequence of videos.

the NBO

Here is one of YouTube’s aspiring educators…

 

[James_S_Saint]

geometer,

That Stanford lecture was one of the most difficult reviews I’ve experienced in a long time. If my professors had talked like that, I don’t think I could have made it through one semester for falling to sleep in class. But the NBO clip was short enough to be entertaining.

Lee Aaronaldo,

I thought of possibly an entertaining way to learn to think that doesn’t involve a great deal of work if you happen to enjoy science fiction movies.

Most movies, especially sci-fi, are stories about different aspects of society placed into a sci-fi setting. Gene Roddenberry produced the famous Star Trek series wherein each episode is a story describing in concept some aspect of social conflict.

Later Roddenberry, with the help of his son Majel, produced another less famous series, Andromeda. You can download such TV series to watch at your convenience.

In the Andromeda series, each hero and villain bad-guy is a stereotype of more real societal characters operating in the life around you. If you think about the characteristics of each stereotype in each episode and throughout the series, you can get an idea of what is going on in the world, or at least from the perspective of Roddenberry.

In the Andromeda series, there are a type of bad-guy called “the Magog”. They are creatures who attack in great hordes. They punch their way through the skin of your star ship then once inside, they either eat the crew or bites them to infest them with eggs which later hatch and eat their way out of the host.

What that particular bad-guy type represents is the horde of doubters and questioners and is much like how you have described your friend. The questioner gets under your skin when he bites at you long enough to eventually find a weak spot that has significance to you. The question that he posits might not eat away at you right away, but might take a while to hatch into a concern that will eat at you later.

The Magog were created by virtue of the “Abyss” of nothingness and hopelessness and they serve the Abyss to invade and consume the universe. Today, if you look around, you can see and hear questioners and doubters, especially online, who do no more than posit doubt which intends and servers no more than to disrupt and destroy without real purpose.

They do not seek any resolve for harmony or peace nor hope to find any truth. They merely seek to posit doubt and let that doubt take its course within others. And they do that with argument posing as healthy defense against foolish blindness. “Question all things”, they say. Yet fail to question the wisdom of “questioning all things”.

Also in the series are the Nietzschians, named after Neitzsche who espoused the “Anti-Christ” and how life is about the survival of the fittest. What Neitzsche, Darwin, John Nash and others failed to see was that the “fittest” are really more often than not the “fitted” who get along in agreement rather than always trying to compete, argue, and betray.

There are other stereotypes throughout that series and within many others. It isn’t the most elite way to learn of the world, but it offers entertainment while you learn to think about how different types of people affect each other and what is really going on in the social world, in media, and on the Internet. You will often find that what you had thought of as the “bad-guys” were really the “good-guys” all along, although realize that in an all out social war, there are no good guys.

By trying to see such metaphorical stereotypes within entertainment and realizing that ALL media is in the business of persuasion, you learn how to observe without getting nearly so fooled yourself. And you learn to think more deeply about what is really being presented before you. The Bible is an example of something that you certainly cannot understand without deep thought about what it is really telling you “behind the words” or mere superficial presentation of the stories.

Is just a thought if you happen to enjoy such entertainment types. Learning to think doesn’t have to be boring nor combative.