Learning Latin Prayers

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Vince85

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As i have started going to the traditionl Roman Mass i see a lot of people know all the prayers in Latin. When people pray in Latin do they really know what they are saying ? Or is it just memorising words that we dont know the meaning ? I was wondering is there any book or something that where i can learn how to pray in Latin ?
 
Here’s a good start for you.

ewtn.com/library/prayer/latrosar.htm

rickmk.com/Mass/masstext.html

There’s an adage that goes something like this: Memorize now, understand later. When you memorized the Our Father, did you know what you were praying?

And even when not in Latin, does one understand every word he speaks? What exactly does “hallowed” mean? Or trespasses, for that matter?
 
The difference between learning, understanding, and speaking a language versus memorizing phrases is different indeed. I enjoy the opportunity to pray the prayers at mass and Adoration, that I learned as a child in Catholic school. I know what the prayers say, because the Latin and English phrases were side by side on the same page, and we were taught how to pronounce them by the nuns. My problem is pronounciation of Latin prayers that I didn’t learn back then. I’m sure the boys who served at the altar never forgot a word of the Latin from mass. It’s a very useful language.
 
ProVobis said:
Here’s a good start for you.

ewtn.com/library/prayer/latrosar.htm

rickmk.com/Mass/masstext.html

There’s an adage that goes something like this: Memorize now, understand later. When you memorized the Our Father, did you know what you were praying?

And even when not in Latin, does one understand every word he speaks? What exactly does “hallowed” mean? Or trespasses, for that matter?
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I went to the first link at EWTN and I was reading the Credo and came across this phrase

Filium eius unicum

what is “unicum”? shouldn’t it be “unigenitum” – “only begotten” – his only begotten son?

I think that word is incorrect.*** And, if I am, it shows how using Latin involves the blind leading the blind. *****
Yeah, the EWTN site appears to be wrong.**
Check this out

classicalmusic.about.com/od/theordinaryofthemass/f/credo.htm

and this one too

thesacredheart.com/latpray.htm#f
 
Crumpy said:
I went to the first link at EWTN and I was reading the Credo and came across this phrase

Filium eius unicum

what is “unicum”? shouldn’t it be “unigenitum” – “only begotten” – his only begotten son?
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That’s the Apostles Creed. You’re right, it’s the Nicene Creed that is recited or sung at the EF.
 
The Apostle’s Creed can be said on weekdays, and on Sundays in other countries.

Cheers
 
Well that depends.

Obviously if one just memorised and left it at that then yes in all likelihood they would simply not understand the individual words (they would still know the meaning of the total prayer however)

However even a cursory look at the prayers can lead to understanding of the words, many of them are borrowed into english (Glory, Gloria for example) and with that knowledge and the knowledge of the total sum of the prayer it is quite easy to gain an understanding of the individual words of the prayers as distinct from the total prayer itself.

And should you engage in a proper study of latin that is naturally extended further.
 
Timothysis said:
Bingo.
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Hi Timothysis.

Your comment raises some interesting questions.

How do we explain the fact that Islam is even more strict about using a non-native language, that Islam is growing, and that its adherents seem to have at least as good an understanding of its tenets as most Christians?

How do we explain the fact that in prior times, most Catholics could identify the Blessed Sacrament as the body of Christ? Certainly, they prayed the rosary, the angelus, and vespers in Latin, and understood most of what they prayed.

Perhaps the argument you are making is that modern people in the West are just too busy to learn another language. While this would be a compelling argument, it would leave open the question how Europeans and westernized orientals come to master foreign languages in greater numbers than Americans do. Is it education? Do we get a free ride if we fail to teach Latin so people can pray with the Church? Is it a sin against charity?

Last, to what extent does using a native language impede considered reflection. We all have had the experience of being on a telephone call while otherwise occupied; the experience is somewhat like the conversation between Wol and Winnie the Pooh when Pooh says, “Yes, yes,” and “Oh, no,” more or less automatically, without really listening to what Wol is saying.

How often at English services do we pray, without reflecting on what the words mean?
 
Bingo misses the point, in my opinion. Does one have to be bilingual to appreciate the fact that one’s understanding of something differs from language to language? I’m bilingual and I don’t hope to understand in English what I understand in Polish and vice versa. I’ve given up doing translations for that reason. People just demand too much in translations and things tend to get mistranslated as there are no true 1-to-1 relationship between languages. Each language has its purpose and English certainly has never been designed with a divine purpose. You don’t learn Russian the same way you learn Chinese. And you won’t learn Latin the same way you learned English. The important thing is to understand the gist of the Latin. You don’t need to translate every word of the Wedding Feast at Cana, for example, in order to “get the message.” Or every word of the Collect, except to know it addresses God in a special way. The more you learn the Latin, the more you’ll get out of the liturgy or even the English translations. The Church chose to use Latin as its official language and keep the liturgy uniform. In the end the priest or bishop would be the one to explain the Mass and readings for his audience whether there is an official translation or not. That’s why the Church requires priests to be knowledgeable in Latin as well as their national tongues.
 
When I was at school in the fifties and sixties, there was a wonderful old nun who used to teach us Latin; she always said that words are not really terribly important when we are praying, that the whole point of prayer was to reflect and spend time with God. She said that words had the effect of quieting the mind by their rhythm, so that we could “hook” our thoughts onto them and focus on Prayer, as opposed to “pray -ing”.
I’ve never forgotten that, I remember that her advice made a huge impression on me at the time.
She was devoted to the Latin language and used to say that we may as well learn to pray in Latin because it was so much more precise than English, so that there would be no chance of God misunderstanding us!
To me, it just feels more natural to say “Pater noster qui es in coelis…” not that you join in the Our Father in the Latin Mass, of course.
 
Vince85 said:
As i have started going to the traditionl Roman Mass i see a lot of people know all the prayers in Latin. When people pray in Latin do they really know what they are saying ? Or is it just memorising words that we dont know the meaning ? I was wondering is there any book or something that where i can learn how to pray in Latin ?
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I assume some might not know what they are saying but for the vast majority I would say that they do since they have a Daily Missal 1962 or a 1962 Roman Missal which shows the English and Latin side by side. It also helps with following the Mass and responding.

I am personally trying to remember the prayers and what the words mean but it takes time and at first it may seem complicated but you get the hang of it eventually.
 
bluecake said:
When I was at school in the fifties and sixties, there was a wonderful old nun who used to teach us Latin; she always said that words are not really terribly important when we are praying, that the whole point of prayer was to reflect and spend time with God. She said that words had the effect of quieting the mind by their rhythm, so that we could “hook” our thoughts onto them and focus on Prayer, as opposed to “pray -ing”.
I’ve never forgotten that, I remember that her advice made a huge impression on me at the time.
She was devoted to the Latin language and used to say that we may as well learn to pray in Latin because it was so much more precise than English, so that there would be no chance of God misunderstanding us!
To me, it just feels more natural to say “Pater noster qui es in coelis…” not that you join in the Our Father in the Latin Mass, of course.
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In the Latin OF, the congregation is encouraged to join in the Pater Noster (as well as all the other Latin responses.) And it should feel natural as the Latin Pater Noster goes all the way back to the early century Latin Masses. 👍

ecclesiadei.nl/docs/timeline.html
 
ProVobis said:
In the Latin OF, the congregation is encouraged to join in the Pater Noster (as well as all the other Latin responses.) And it should feel natural as the Latin Pater Noster goes all the way back to the early century Latin Masses. 👍

ecclesiadei.nl/docs/timeline.html
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I didn’t know there was a Latin OF! In the Extraordinary Form, the congregation joins in only at the end to say “Sed Libera Nos a Malo”. 🙂
 
bluecake said:
I didn’t know there was a Latin OF! In the Extraordinary Form, the congregation joins in only at the end to say “Sed Libera Nos a Malo”. 🙂
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At a spoken Mass in the EF, it is permitted (since 1958, although it was an unapproved de facto practice for several decades prior) for the congregation to join in the entire Pater Noster. I obviously wouldn’t try it if you don’t want people giving you the stink-eye, but technically it is allowed.

As to the OF, it was developed and published in Latin; all of the various vernacular translations come from the base Latin document. It is very rare to see anybody celebrating the whole thing in Latin, but somewhat more common to see portions, like the Canon, done in Latin. And Pope Benedict has urged the use of the Latin OF in multicultural situations, which I agree is much better than doing one part in English, the next part in Chinese, the next part in Spanish, and so on.
 
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