Learning Latin?

[mystagogia]

Il Papa Benedetto XVI is on record as being a fluent Latin speaker.

I have an uncle priest that used to be fluent in Latin, Greek, French, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, Irish, and a great smattering in other tongues. Fortunately he is still fluent in English. And I can still talk to him in Italian and Spanish. That hasn’t left him yet.

It seems to me that priests are sometimes given the gift of lingue by God.
It’s the only reasonable explanation how so many of them manage to accomplish in relatively short periods what the lay person normally struggle years for.

Here’s something that helps explain why Catholic priests find picking up other languages fairly easy: they usually have a strong grounding in Latin grammar.

Latin grammar is, as one of my professors used to say jokingly, “a mother!” He said that because it is complex, and also because in it can be found almost every elemental form employed in the Indo-European group of languages. A good grounding in Latin grammar reduces the study of most other Indo-European languages to vocabulary, idioms, and local quirks.

He told me that he left for Europe in the summer of his college freshman year armed with a very solid grounding in Latin and English. He came home being passable in eight other European languages. I told him he was an incredible genius (and he was, as a matter of fact), but he assured me that this particular feat was not so exceptional. He credited his Latin for it.

EDIT: By the way, this same professor told me that he participated in several conferences hosted by the Vatican that were conducted entirely in spoken Latin. I don’t know if this is still being done, but at least the Vatican was doing it within living memory.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Here’s something that helps explain why Catholic priests find picking up other languages fairly easy: they usually have a strong grounding in Latin grammar.

Latin grammar is, as one of my professors used to say jokingly, “a mother!” He said that because it is complex, and also because in it can be found almost every elemental form employed in the Indo-European group of languages. A good grounding in Latin grammar reduces the study of most other Indo-European languages to vocabulary, idioms, and local quirks.

He told me that he left for Europe in the summer of his college freshman year armed with a very solid grounding in Latin and English. He came home being passable in eight other European languages. I told him he was an incredible genius (and he was, as a matter of fact), but he assured me that this particular feat was not so exceptional. He credited his Latin for it.

EDIT: By the way, this same professor told me that he participated in several conferences hosted by the Vatican that were conducted entirely in spoken Latin. I don’t know if this is still being done, but at least the Vatican was doing it within living memory.

That’s very interesting and I’m sure quite true. Latin is definitely not a dead language. It’s used in science and religion and law. Too bad it isn’t taught more in schools today.

 

[goldfish60]

I atttended my first Latin Mass a few weeks ago, and I found it at the time to be a most uplifting experience. We were provided materials which contained Latin on one side, and English on the other so as to be able to keep up with the service. Not long afterwards, I’ve also managed to memorize almost all of the neccessary rosary prayers in Latin

However, it also wasn’t long before I found out that…

i) church ‘latin’ as it stands today is based on modern Italian pronounciation rules
ii) classical Latin (as assumed to have been spoken by the ancient Romans, or somewhere close to it) and as taught today is a reconstructed language

I’m guessing at this stage that whilst the Hebrew language (and even the Aramaic and Assyrian languages, to some extent) not only survived and developed to what it had become today, the Roman tounge had basically died out in its originality. I’m also guessing from my own personal historical research so far over the years that there had been many attempts to destroy the preChristian Roman culture, civilization, arts, and language, hence the invention of church ‘latin’. If the ‘glory that was Rome’ was the enemy of the church, then why did the church adopt ‘latin’ as its main means of communication?

Concerning the Roman tounge as taught today being a reconstruct and not much more, I can’t help but be reminded of similar problems encountered in other online forums concerning the study of Old Norse, Old English, Old Celtic, and so on. And so at this stage, I personally would concentrate more on what the modern English language has to offer

 

[mystagogia]

I atttended my first Latin Mass a few weeks ago, and I found it at the time to be a most uplifting experience. We were provided materials which contained Latin on one side, and English on the other so as to be able to keep up with the service. Not long afterwards, I’ve also managed to memorize almost all of the neccessary rosary prayers in Latin

However, it also wasn’t long before I found out that…

i) church ‘latin’ as it stands today is based on modern Italian pronounciation rules
ii) classical Latin (as assumed to have been spoken by the ancient Romans, or somewhere close to it) and as taught today is a reconstructed language

I’m guessing at this stage that whilst the Hebrew language (and even the Aramaic and Assyrian languages, to some extent) not only survived and developed to what it had become today, the Roman tounge had basically died out in its originality. I’m also guessing from my own personal historical research so far over the years that there had been many attempts to destroy the preChristian Roman culture, civilization, arts, and language, hence the invention of church ‘latin’. If the ‘glory that was Rome’ was the enemy of the church, then why did the church adopt ‘latin’ as its main means of communication?

Concerning the Roman tounge as taught today being a reconstruct and not much more, I can’t help but be reminded of similar problems encountered in other online forums concerning the study of Old Norse, Old English, Old Celtic, and so on. And so at this stage, I personally would concentrate more on what the modern English language has to offer

I’m not sure what you mean by “reconstructed”. To be sure, classical Latin as is taught to day is indeed a valid language. Our sense of its grammar and of vocabulary/idioms is sound, and does not vary from original usages. The only part of that has been reconstructed is its pronunciation.

Yes, differences exist between classical Latin and ecclesiastical Latin in all three areas: grammar, vocabulary/idioms/ and pronunciation. That is because Latin, like all languages, was subject to dynamic change over time. We can look back at the English of Shakespeare or, especially, Chaucer to appreciate the phenomonon. Elizabethan English is the same language, modern English, as Ernest Hemmingway’s English, yet clearly both usages are distinct dialects that vary considerably. The differences between classical and ecclesiastical Latin manifest themselves in exactly the same ways.

Arriving at how Latin was pronounced in classical times or in the middle ages is a far more difficult and inexact task than interpreting grammar and vocabulary, this is true. From the written words both grammar and vocabulary can be studied and known quite accurately and with great precision. We do not have any living ancient Romans or mideval preists, however, so we must put forth best guesses on how they might have pronounced their languages. All is not lost in this regard due to the fact that Latin poetry from all eras has survived as well as ancient grammars describing Latin’s rules for poetic meters. Scholars can deduce with great accuracy how Latin words must have been pronounced in various areas by analyzing the verse.

The Catholic Church still exists as the world’s last bastion of spoken Latin, and as such she does poses authority over what else but a linguistic tradition. She is a speaker of modern Latin, which still does exist, although only in this reduced usage. Linguists do accept her tradtions over how modern Latin should be pronounced as authorative, living, and non-reconstructed. It is considered a valid if disparate cousin, with real linkage, to the old language of Cicero.

 

[I_Believe]

Here is a great quick start guide by one of our members…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2456748#post2456748

 

[rangaraj1987]

Beginners’ Latin
This tutorial is a beginners’ guide to the Latin used in documents between 1086 and 1733. It is the first online tutorial to help you learn the Latin from this period. Try our new Advanced Latin
The tutorial covers the period between 1086 and 1733, when Latin was the official languageGlossary - opens in a new window of documents written in England.
Knowing Latin will help you to read documents from this period. After 1733, official documents were written in English.
No previous knowledge of Latin is required. This tutorial is suitable for everyone who wants to learn. You may

* Be a beginner
* Want to refresh your skills
* Have studied ClassicalGlossary - opens in a new window Latin and want to find out about Latin from a different period

All of the grammar is fully explained. No previous knowledge is required.
You can practise by translating sentences taken from real documents held at The National Archives. For example, some are from the Domesday BookGlossary - opens in a new window, written in 1086. It is the earliest surviving public record.

Where to start

Tips on learning Latin
Tutorial

Twelve lessons
Reference

Word list, common problems, dating Latin documents and much more
Activities

More documents to practise on. New documents will be added periodically.
Further practice

Learn how to read old handwriting 1500-1800 with our interactive online tutorial​

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[goldfish60]

To Mystagogia

Well, I don’t know about you, but I’m not sure I myself would feel at peace with a language unless it was in its original state and that there are enough of the original natives around who actually speak it to correct anyone when needed